Magus with a Martial Tradition

[nmitchell890]

I'm playing a Magus in a homebrew game where we will have access to Martial Traditions. Looking at the d20pfsrd page on Martial Traditions, it says that any character can join a Martial Tradition as long as they meet the alignment requirements and can persuade the organisation to let them join, but later it talks about trading away one of your disciplines in order to access the discipline associated with that Martial Tradition and the Magus has no disciplines. Does that mean RAW my character can join the organisation but won't be able to access the discipline associated with it?

[StSword]

Joining a tradition doesn't turn a non initiator class into an initiator class.

That being said, the Martial Training feats are combat feats, so a magus who wants to be an initiator can spend those bonus feats on it (as well as their normal feat progression), and if they are part of a martial tradition then they are part of an organization that would be happy to teach them.

You might want to look at the Bladecaster prestige class if you really want to mix PoW with spells in combat.

[nmitchell890]

Ok so I've had a look at Bladecaster and it's...better than Eldritch Knight I guess. It seems to be optimal for people that want 9th level spells and 9th level manoeuvres on the same build (not that I know if that's possible to achieve that much progression on both sides).

I'm interested to see how Arcane Assault interacts with Spell Combat. I'm also interested to see how Spellstrike interacts with the spell cast as part of Battlecaster's Strike. I'm thinking perhaps I could dip Warder and pick up Winding Path that way, that doesn't delay Bladecaster entry and still gets me Stance of the Ether Gate at 13th.

Really all I want is a way of getting Dimensional Agility (or any teleportation ability that lets me use Spell Combat in the same round and doesn't have significantly limited uses) on a Magus at the lowest possible level. I'm certainly open to other suggestions.

[upho]

Ok so I've had a look at Bladecaster and it's...better than Eldritch Knight I guess. It seems to be optimal for people that want 9th level spells and 9th level manoeuvres on the same build (not that I know if that's possible to achieve that much progression on both sides).The bladecaster is considerably better than the EK. And it's in many ways actually especially great on a magus due to how spellstrike interacts with Battlecaster's Strike and Arcane Assault. (And yes, it's possible to get 9/9; for example a wizard 9/warder 1/bladecaster 10 with the Practiced Initiator trait has 17 levels of wizard casting progression and IL 17.)


I'm interested to see how Arcane Assault interacts with Spell Combat.Outside of boost maneuvers, basically not at all, since Spell Combat is its own full round action.


I'm also interested to see how Spellstrike interacts with the spell cast as part of Battlecaster's Strike.They interact perfectly. Meaning Battlecaster's Strike grants you a swift action cast of a touch attack spell when you initiate a martial strike, and SS allows you to deliver that touch attack spell via your weapon. Note that you can choose whether to have your SS attack be resolved before, during or after your martial strike, for example allowing your SS attack to benefit from the Arcane Ruin debuffs and/or allowing you to Spellstrike the enemy with a Rime Spell-ed frostbite to make sure an attack granted by your martial strike hits.


I'm thinking perhaps I could dip Warder and pick up Winding Path that way, that doesn't delay Bladecaster entry and still gets me Stance of the Ether Gate at 13th.That surely works, although I'd recommend you look for something which grants you more useful abilities and/or bonus feats (which you'll make good use of considering the Bladecaster entry requirements). I think especially the Int-based Vigilante stalker would be interesting, giving you a Stalker Art, (which may for example grant you Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility if you're going Dex-based), 1 more maneuver known and readied than warder, and more suitable disciplines including Scarlet Throne which goes especially well with Spell Combat. Or you could of course go with the harbinger which grants you all the disciplines you want per default. Also, if you take a stalker or warder level, I recommend that - if possible - you gain access to Veiled Moon via the Unorthodox Method trait rather than the Winding Path, and instead join the Lords of the Wheel tradition for access to the great Riven Hourglass discipline and most likely more useful benefits.


Really all I want is a way of getting Dimensional Agility (or any teleportation ability that lets me use Spell Combat in the same round and doesn't have significantly limited uses) on a Magus at the lowest possible level. I'm certainly open to other suggestions.Well, Veiled Moon, Shattered Mirror and basically any Initiator class or archetype can certainly give you that. The level limitation will instead come down to how quickly you can get all the prerequisite feats and the required Dimensional Dervish feat without sacrificing your effectiveness, rather than the at-will teleport available at 9th if you go magus 4/initiator 1/bladecaster 4+. Of course, especially Veiled Moon has plenty of lower level poofaporting maneuvers, allowing you to do zip around the battlefield well before 9th. And complemented with some Elemental Flux stuff, you can add some interesting energy effects without having to use your spells.

But really, if you're only looking for (virtually) unlimited short range poofaporting for Spell Combat + Dimensional Dervish, getting maneuvers and bladecaster levels seem like overkill. More importantly, if that combo is enough for your game, the many additional abilities you get from other maneuvers and the initiator and bladecaster levels may make your magus OP. If that's the case, I'd consider the Martial Training feats instead and simply accept the many feat slots needed and late access. Or I'd simply dip a single level of suitable initiator class at some point after 4th, allowing me to retrain my 3rd level stance into Stance of the Ether Gate at 13th (with the Practiced Initiator trait).

[Kaouse]

You could play a Sublime Warmage, an initiating Magus archetype from the Codex of Blood (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ve-d_lqkQ7GPVbbPCX3yL0NG1Xpz0GYwPRYW-0q8jag/edit). Note that the Codex of Blood wasn't made by Dreamscarred Press, but YMMV on whether or not your GM allows 3PP of a 3PP.

[nmitchell890]

You could play a Sublime Warmage, an initiating Magus archetype from the Codex of Blood (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ve-d_lqkQ7GPVbbPCX3yL0NG1Xpz0GYwPRYW-0q8jag/edit). Note that the Codex of Blood wasn't made by Dreamscarred Press, but YMMV on whether or not your GM allows 3PP of a 3PP.

This looks to be exactly what I'm looking for, thanks so much. I'll check with my DM and see if he will allow it, the fact that it requires me to take a Magus Arcana to access more and better manoeuvres as I progress is a big balancing factor and is probably the reason he will allow it. I'll likely be investing in Extra Arcane Pool as well to fuel Martial Spellstrike. Is there any reason why I can't follow more than one Martial Tradition as long as their ideals and tasks don't conflict? If I can I'll probably join both Scarlet Sentinels and The Wayward Path, I feel that they shouldn't conflict and that both Scarlet Throne and Veiled Moon fit better thematically with Magus than Mithril Current (for a non-Kensai) and Shattered Mirror.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

If your GM doesn't allow it, a magus sinking feats into Martial Training can still be viable; I had a character that was Hexcrafter, and there were some fun combos with Cursed Razor.

[upho]

This looks to be exactly what I'm looking for, thanks so much. I'll check with my DM and see if he will allow it, the fact that it requires me to take a Magus Arcana to access more and better manoeuvres as I progress is a big balancing factor and is probably the reason he will allow it.Since you're going for bladecaster, it unfortunately isn't much of a balancing factor; you can get full bladecaster initiation progression without having to sacrifice anything aside from cantrips (you don't even have to take the Martial Development arcana, though it will certainly help during the earlier levels). Though this of course depends on the starting and expected end level of the game - if its largely limited to your bladecaster levels (7th - 17th), this archetype is probably the best choice for you, even though you'll be hampering your feat progression and you won't be able to get into bladecaster before 7th since your bab won't be high enough until then (as is the case with a stalker dip, btw).

Note also that you can potentially avoid losing any spellcasting progression - even if you instead dip a level into an initiator class - by joining a spellcaster guild (see Inner Sea Magic p. 22) if they exist, granting you up to +3 levels of full progression of your magus casting at 35 prestige points for a negligible sum of money. This in combination with a warder dip (I recommend the Zweihander Sentinel archetype) also happens to be the quickest way you can enter bladecaster with the least casting progression loss, though your feat progression will suffer even more as you won't even get a single useful bonus feat from your class levels.


I'll likely be investing in Extra Arcane Pool as well to fuel Martial Spellstrike.That's probably a good idea, though you need a lot of feats to get this build going. Just to get bladecaster access, Dex fighting and Dimensional Dervish you need no less than 8 feats, and you only get a single bonus feat from your class levels. IOW, you likely won't even be able to consider Extra Arcane Pool before 11th (as a human). With a Vigilante stalker dip at 6th instead of a magus level, you'll gain an additional bonus feat and will reduce this to 9th level, in addition to more than doubling your maneuvers known with an IL equal to your character level -1 (these are also be upgraded with bladecaster levels).


Is there any reason why I can't follow more than one Martial Tradition as long as their ideals and tasks don't conflict? If I can I'll probably join both Scarlet Sentinels and The Wayward Path, I feel that they shouldn't conflict and that both Scarlet Throne and Veiled Moon fit better thematically with Magus than Mithril Current (for a non-Kensai) and Shattered Mirror.It's up to your GM do decide whether you can join two traditions, but combining the Scarlet Sentinels and The Wayward Path should definitely be workable IMO.

[Kaouse]

Or you could just take the Unorthodox Method (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/traits/unorthodox-method-regional-any/) trait to change one of your starting disciplines. Then you can still take a Martial Tradition to cover the other one.