Willing Creatures

[Democratus]

There are some spells (Water Breathing, Water Walk, Dimension Door, Word of Recall, etc.) that allow you to bestow the effect of the spell upon a "Willing Creature".

How can a creature become "willing"? And how much information do they have to come to this decision?

One problem with this is that unless they are skilled in Arcana they would have no way of knowing what spell was being cast.

Could you tell a creature you were casting Water Breathing and instead cast Water Walk upon them?

[PhoenixPhyre]

There are some spells (Water Breathing, Water Walk, Dimension Door, Word of Recall, etc.) that allow you to bestow the effect of the spell upon a "Willing Creature".

How can a creature become "willing"? And how much information do they have to come to this decision?

One problem with this is that unless they are skilled in Arcana they would have no way of knowing what spell was being cast.

Could you tell a creature you were casting Water Breathing and instead cast Water Walk upon them?

Fiction answer: they'd get to check your sincerity (opposed Charisma (Deception) vs Wisdom (Insight)) check, success = not willing.

Game answer: to smooth things out, assume that people are never willing (unless magically coerced) for self-destructive or harmful effects.

And if you're casting on another PC, lying like that is PvP (with all that entails).

[Democratus]

Neither Water Walk nor Water Breathing are self-destructive.

In fact, I don't know any destructive "willing creature" spells off hand.

Characters lying to each other is fine. That's core storytelling stuff.

I'm just wondering what mechanical underpinnings there are in D&D for 'willingness'.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Neither Water Walk nor Water Breathing are self-destructive.

In fact, I don't know any destructive "willing creature" spells off hand.

Characters lying to each other is fine. That's core storytelling stuff.

I'm just wondering what mechanical underpinnings there are in D&D for 'willingness'.

I mean "self-destructive" as in "you're not going to like the result you get". Ie, the entire reason you'd try to do this. Switch Water Walk for something like Bless. Both are "safe", but only one (Water Breathing) helps you when you're going underwater.

And that's entirely a "keep the game running smoothly and not opening up 'exploit's" reasoning, not a mechanical one.

Edit: And "willingness" is entirely fiction-bound, not mechanically bound. A person is willing IFF they are willing in fiction. You can lie to them like that, as long as you can make it work in character.

[Naanomi]

In fact, I don't know any destructive "willing creature" spells off hand.

Haste, or at least when it wears off

[DrLoveMonkey]

I personally rule it that they intuitively know the spell, but not the exact details.

I once even had an NPC whole ultimate plan for dealing with a terrible conquerer King was to offer him a friendly teleport out of danger while the PCs were storming the castle, and use that to teleport to the bottom of the ocean, killing them both.

Thankfully the PCs were much more awesome than I anticipated and it didn’t come to them losing their friend.

[Damon_Tor]

Neither Water Walk nor Water Breathing are self-destructive.

In fact, I don't know any destructive "willing creature" spells off hand.

Water Walk can certainly be disruptive cast in place of water breathing because it rockets the other guy to the surface of the water. If you're attempting to take cover under the water from a non-aquatic flying monster, for example, water walk would effectively be feeding them to the monster.

Another good example is Polymorph: a willing target doesn't get a save. If you lie and tell someone you'll be turning them into a giant ape only to turn them into a snail instead, well that's pretty disruptive.

A better question is whether or not a target can be made "willing" via mind-altering magic.

[Democratus]

Water Walk can certainly be disruptive cast in place of water breathing because it rockets the other guy to the surface of the water. If you're attempting to take cover under the water from a non-aquatic flying monster, for example, water walk would effectively be feeding them to the monster.

Another good example is Polymorph: a willing target doesn't get a save. If you lie and tell someone you'll be turning them into a giant ape only to turn them into a snail instead, well that's pretty disruptive.

A better question is whether or not a target can be made "willing" via mind-altering magic.

And these are amazing story-building situations. :smallbiggrin:

Example: The hero knows the battle against the Sahuagin brood-mother is a fight to the death for both her and her husband. As they prepare for the battle she says she is casting Water Breathing and instead cast Water Walk, saying "I love you. Take care of the kids." to her husband as he rockets safely to the surface.

The Polymorph example you give is straight out of fairy tale and completely in idiom for a fantasy game.

Since there isn't really a mechanical system for knowing what spell you are agreeing to - which reflects the wild and risky nature of magic in a fantasy world - I'm not seeing any way (other than DM fiat) for the recipient of a spell to know for certain.

[Man_Over_Game]

One particular harmful willing effect is using the Spellbreaker feature from the Arcane Domain Cleric to remove a positive effect on an enemy creature.

[Corpsecandle717]

I always play it that a 'willing' creature is simply choosing not to save against a spell. Basically they have no idea what the spell their about to receive is, unless they're skilled in arcana or similar, and are choosing not to react to a spell. If the caster wanted to pull a double-cross they could. In my world very few people are ever willing to accept a spell from anyone but the closest most trustworthy friends and allies.

[Democratus]

One particular harmful willing effect is using the Spellbreaker feature from the Arcane Domain Cleric to remove a positive effect on an enemy creature.

That's not a spell, though.

And we're talking about spells that affect willing creatures.

It does make me curious, though. Is there any mechanic for how a creature becomes "willing" in the Spellbreaker feature?

[Unoriginal]

They don't know for certain, but they have to trust the caster to be willing.

Think about it like bungee jumping. There is nothing to prove to you that the installation is safe, or that the person who set it up won't cut the rope after you jump. But you can be convinced of those things, and do the jump willingly.

[Democratus]

If the caster wanted to pull a double-cross they could. In my world very few people are ever willing to accept a spell from anyone but the closest most trustworthy friends and allies.

Which is where all the most epic double-crosses come from. :smallcool:

[JackPhoenix]

In fact, I don't know any destructive "willing creature" spells off hand.

Levitate wasn't mentioned yet.

[JoeJ]

So, if a willing creature uses their reaction to identify the spell being cast and succeeds in identifying it as something they don't want, can they change their mind and become unwilling before the spell takes effect?

[PhoenixPhyre]

So, if a willing creature uses their reaction to identify the spell being cast and succeeds in identifying it as something they don't want, can they change their mind and become unwilling before the spell takes effect?

I would say "absolutely, yes". In my mind, spell requirements (range, valid targets, components, etc) are checked at the end of the spell's cast when it's about to go into effect. And it's the more game-friendly way of doing things IMO.

Is there RAW on this? Probably not.

[Unoriginal]

So, if a willing creature uses their reaction to identify the spell being cast and succeeds in identifying it as something they don't want, can they change their mind and become unwilling before the spell takes effect?

Yes. Don't see any reason why not.

At the condition that the actual spell that's cast on them requires a willing target too, of course.