RAW Question on Summon Monster

[Armyguyclaude]

I've read a lot of threads about the fact you can swap out monsters on the Summon Monster spells. I've seen Celestial/Fiendish Summoning Specialist. But other than those I don't know where it states you can actually swap monsters out on the Summon Monster Spell List. My DM's kid (Running a one shot) told me I couldn't swap out monsters, because it's not apart of the rules. I don't mind not swapping, but I do want to know the truth.

Can you swap monsters out legally?

[Kayblis]

I believe it's a case-by-case basis with swapping. Some monsters, like the Nashrou and the Voor from MM4 or Storm Elementals from MM3, state they can be summoned by Summon Monster spells, and list a spell level. Those are not traded or swapped for any monster you have, simply added by RAW and there's no indication at all of swapping being intended. It's possible, although I've never seen this personally, that some monsters' entries tell you to trade in a monster slot for them.

If you're looking for the "swap for any approved monster with around the same power level" rule, I've always seen this as a homebrew, never read it in a first-party book.

[Eldariel]

I believe it's a case-by-case basis with swapping. Some monsters, like the Nashrou and the Voor from MM4 or Storm Elementals from MM3, state they can be summoned by Summon Monster spells, and list a spell level. Those are not traded or swapped for any monster you have, simply added by RAW and there's no indication at all of swapping being intended. It's possible, although I've never seen this personally, that some monsters' entries tell you to trade in a monster slot for them.

If you're looking for the "swap for any approved monster with around the same power level" rule, I've always seen this as a homebrew, never read it in a first-party book.

Just check e.g. Summoner's Desk Reference (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5) for details: it lists which are swaps and which are straight additions. Notably Fiendish Codices offer swap alternatives instead of straight additions, while particularly Fiend Folio, and most Monster Manuals, straight-up add stuff to the lists.

Of course, manual customisation is more than fine; there are many, many creatures one could summon that aren't RAW options. But if the DM is not cooperative, those are a straight-up "no".


This answer from 3.5 perspective; Pathfinder is a bit different in that the core list is more or less set in stone, but feats and items can be used to add a broad range of non-core critters to the list. See Pathfinder guide to summoning (https://docs.google.com/document/d/16dZ5SBQMS1Yi6531tXOkKE_rmXEwn4VFacOEQKiHA5E/view#) for details if necessary.

[Armyguyclaude]

Thank you all for the help

[liquidformat]

So there are some feats that allow you to change the monsters you can summon the first two that come to mind are greenbound summoning and Child of Winter. Beyond that the others that come to mind are alternate rules your campaign could use, such as UA's theme'ed summoning lists or the DMG pg37 alternate summoning rules. Though those are alternate summoning rules you would need to work with your dm to implement.

I have played around with combining the UA's themed list and DMG's alternate summoning rules and it makes for a pretty cool alternative where summons are more like minor cohorts or followers rather than meat shield slaves.

[Uncle Pine]

In addition to the above, Dragon Magazine #302 offers some guidelines on how to expand summon monster lists starting from page 25.