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Karma Guard
2007-09-30, 08:40 PM
Richard Smythesson, professional adventurer, looked up. And up. It was a cliff that had to be at least twenty feet tall, and it was as sheer as Dame Murbella's veil. There was a dragon at the top of it decimating the populace, and Richard was one of the adventurers hunting it.

"There's no way to get up there," he announces, chucking his climbing gear to the ground. "I'd have to be able to fly to get up there."

"There's always jumping," came a voice behind Richard, who started with a jump. The voice belonged to a man in full plate, richly decorated with images of dragons and other great serpents. The most notable part of his ensemble was his helmet; it had a long, snout-like face mask, looking more like a mask than anything useful.

"Jumping! Then I'd better get looking for someone who can turn me into a frog!" Richard exclaims, incredulous. There's no way a man in full-plate could make it, right?

The dragon knight just shrugs, somewhat apologetically, and approaches the cliff. And then, he jumps. It was more like he took off to fly, but there's no way he was a wizard, not with that armor! But up he goes, straight up the cliff side like a rocket. And then he lands light as a feather right at the top.

Richard yells and waves his arms, but he's too late. The dragon knight's on his way to the dragon's cave.
-

The Dragoon, or Dragon Knight, is sometimes a great friend to dragons, playing student to a dragon's teacher. Sometimes, they are bitter enemies, a Dragoon using his unique leaping capabilities to overcome a dragon's power. No matter what the truth is, a Dragoon is a capable, useful fighter, able to keep himself alive against the toughest of enemies with his abilities. Good Dragoons often follow Bahamut, god-king of Good dragons, while Evil ones turn to Tiamat, Queen-mother of Evil dragons.

Edit: Rules for hitting flying targets with Falling Charge added.
Edit2: New Table added! Old one in a spoiler at the bottom!

The Dragoon
Dragon Knight

Alignment: Any
HD: D10
Class Skills: The Dragoon's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Jump (Str), Tumble (Dex), Balance (Dex), Craft (int), Knowledge(Nature, Arcana, and Nobility/Royalty) (Int), Intimidate (Cha), and Handle Animal (Cha)
Skill Points at 1st level: (2+Int mod)x4
Skill Points onwards: 2 + Int mod.

Table: The Dragoon
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|# of Auras Known

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Draconic Aura +1, Born Flyer|2

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Skill Focus (Jump), Giant Leap|2

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Dragoon's Grace, Dragon's Heart|2

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Falling Charge +2d6 2 rounds later, Sky's the Limit|3

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|Draconic Aura +2, Light as a Feather (Light)|3

6th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+2|Falling Charge +3d6|3

7th|
+7|
+5|
+5|
+2|Improved Skill Focus (Jump), Light as a Feather (Medium)|4

8th|
+8|
+6|
+6|
+2|Falling Charge +4d6, Skill Focus (Tumble)|4

9th|
+9|
+6|
+6|
+3|Breath Weapon Resistance 10|4

10th|
+10|
+7|
+7|
+3|Falling Charge +5d6, Draconic Aura +3, Light as a Feather (Heavy)|5

11th|
+11|
+7|
+7|
+3|Fall with Style|5

12th|
+12|
+8|
+8|
+4|Falling Charge +6d6 1 round later, Greater Skill Focus (Jump)|5

13th|
+13|
+8|
+8|
+4|Palidor's Grace, Breath Weapon Resistance 20|6

14th|
+14|
+9|
+9|
+4|Falling Charge +7d6|6

15th|
+15|
+9|
+9|
+5|Draconic Aura +4, Skill Focus (Intimidate)|6

16th|
+16|
+10|
+10|
+5|Falling Charge +8d6|7

17th|
+17|
+10|
+10|
+5|Breath Weapon Immunity, Skill Mastery (Jump, Tumble)|7

18th|
+18|
+11|
+11|
+6|Falling Charge +9d6|7

19th|
+19|
+11|
+11|
+6|Frightful Presence|7

20th|
+20|
+12|
+12|
+6|Falling Charge +10d6 Full round action, Superior Skill Focus (Jump), Draconic Aura +5|7[/table]

Class Features
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple weapons, one-handed swords, lances, and all polearms.
Armor Proficiencies: Light, Medium, and Heavy. No Shields.

Draconic Aura (Su): The dragoon and all of his allies within a 30’ radius gain benefits from one of the following Auras. These may be activated, suppressed, or swapped as a Swift Action. Only one Aura may be active at a time. No duration, though you must be conscious. The number of Auras you have access to is based on your level.
Energy Shield: if any subject is struck with a Natural Attack or a non-reach weapon, the attacker takes (2 * N) damage of an Elemental type
Power: subjects melee attacks do +N damage.
Presence: subjects gain +N on Bluff, Diplomacy, & Intimidate checks.
Resistance: all subjects gain Resistance (5 * N) to an Elemental type.
Senses: subjects gain +N on Listen, Spot, & Initiative checks.
Toughness: subjects gain Damage Reduction (N) / magic.
Vigor: subjects gain Fast Healing (N) when below ½ normal hit-points.
ed. note: Elemental Types are Ice, Fire, Electrical, Acid, and Water

Born Flyer: At 1st level, the Dragoon gains this feat for free. If he already possesses it, then he may choose another feat from the Fighter Bonus feat list. (Feat: +4 Competence bonus on all saves/checks you make to maneuver or stay aloft in the air. Also allows you to qualify for feats that require ability to fly)

Skill Focus(Jump): At 2nd level, the dragoon gains this for free. If he already possesses it, then he may choose another feat from the Fighter Bonus feat list. At 7th level, this bonus increases to +6, and at 12th level, this increases to +9. At 20th level, this increases for a last time to +12.

Giant Leap (Ex): At 2nd level All Jump checks the dragoon makes are treated as if you were running and had Feat: Run.

Dragoon's Grace (Su): At 3rd level, the dragoon may use the spell Feather Fall at will, but only affecting himself.

Dragon's Heart (Ex): At third level, the dragoon becomes immune to any fear effects and a dragon's Frightful Presence.

Sky's the Limit (Ex): At 4th level, all vertical Jump DCs are halved. This stacks with Giant Leap.

Falling Charge (Ex): At 4th level, the dragoon learns how to work his amazing jumping ability to his advantage. As a full round action, jump at least 10 feet up or higher than the enemy's vertical reach, whichever is taller* and 10 feet forward. Roll one die for both checks. If you make this jump check, then you jump into the air, seemingly much higher than just 10 feet. While in the air, you have Total Concealment.

Two rounds later, even on someone else's round, you come crashing down on the enemy. Make a Charge special attack. You deal extra Piercing damage in addition to the attack from the charge as indicated on the chart (starts at +2d6 and increases by +1d6 every other level). Polearms and lances deal double their normal damage on this charge.

After you make this attack, you land in your opponent's square, and can move out to any open square within 5' without provoking an Attack of Opportunity from the opponent you just landed on. At 12th level, a dragoon can land 1 round later, and at 20th, he can land at the end of his round (It becomes a full round action). He can still land 1 or 2 rounds later if he so chooses. You may choose to extend your jump longer than the necessary amount. To do so, increase the Jump DC by +5 for every round past the second.

The base DC for a Falling Charge on a medium opponent is 20. (However, by 4th level, the Dragoon has at least +7 to Jump checks; Giant leap gives +4 and Skill Focus (Jump) gives +3, making the DC effectively 13.)

If you wish to target a flying opponent, you only need to jump as high as the opponent does; the attack also hits on the same turn (that is, the Falling Charge is only a Full Round action when hitting a flying opponent). This is because you hit them 'on the way up'. You make the attack roll as if you were hitting a land-bound opponent, and then you fall back to the ground with your weapon. (However, Fate may need the spear to get stuck in the opponent.)

Light as a Feather(Ex): The Dragoon may ignore Jump and Tumble penalties with the listed Armor, as well as movement penalties. Light Armor only at 5th, Medium at 7th, and Heavy at 10th.

Skill Focus (Tumble): At 8th level, the dragoon gains this for free. If he already possesses it, then he may choose another feat from the Fighter Bonus feat list.

Breath Weapon Resistance (Su): A dragoon gains Resistance of the indicated amount against any dragon's Breath Weapon. At 9th level, he has 10 points of resistance. At 13th level, it increases to 20. At 17th level, he becomes totally immune to any damage dealt by a dragon's breath attack. He can still be affected by non-damage dealing Breath Weapons.

Fall with Style (Ex): At 11th level, a dragoon can so skillfully direct his leaps that he can emulate flight. The dragoon gains the ability to glide. While gliding, he may move forward 20' for each 5' he descends. Effective 'flying' speed is 40' with Average maneuverability. Even if maneuverability improved, he can never hover. May not carry more than a Light load. So long as his armor does not cause Check penalties for Jump, it does not count towards his carrying capacity.

Palidor's Grace (Su): At 13th level, the dragoon can extend his Feather Fall ability to any allies within 30' of himself as a Swift Action.

Skill Focus (Intimidate): at 15th level, the dragoon gains this for free. If he already possesses it, then he may choose another feat from the Fighter Bonus feat list.

Skill Mastery (Jump & Tumble): at 17th level, the dragoon may always take 10 for Tumble and Jump checks, even when in stressful situations.

Frightful Presence (Ex): A dragoon can unsettle foes just like the dragon he emulates. This ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragoon glides overhead, uses a Falling Charge, or makes a full attack. Creatures within 60' are subject to the effect if they are below the dragoon's level (or if they have fewer HD). A potentially affected creature that succeeds on the Will Save (DC10+ 1/2 dragoon levels +the Dragoon's Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragoon's frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons are especially weak to the Dragoon's presence, and are counted as being 5 HD lower than they actually are for the purposes of this ability.

*Medium creatures have a Vertical Reach of 8'. To go up a size, double this. To go down a size, halve it. Quadrupeds have a Reach of a creature that is one size smaller.
--
Old Table
Table: The Dragoon
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|# of Auras Known

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Draconic Aura +1, Born Flyer|3

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Skill Focus (Jump), Giant Leap|3

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Dragoon's Grace, Dragon's Heart|4

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Falling Charge +2d6 2 rounds later, Sky's the Limit|4

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|Draconic Aura +2, Light as a Feather (Light, Medium)|5

6th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+2|Falling Charge +3d6|5

7th|
+7|
+5|
+5|
+2|Evasion|6

8th|
+8|
+6|
+6|
+2|Falling Charge +4d6, Skill Focus (Tumble)|6

9th|
+9|
+6|
+6|
+3|Breath Weapon Resistance 10|7

10th|
+10|
+7|
+7|
+3|Falling Charge +5d6, Draconic Aura +3, Light as a Feather (Heavy)|7

11th|
+11|
+7|
+7|
+3|Fall with Style|7

12th|
+12|
+8|
+8|
+4|Falling Charge +6d6 1 round later|7

13th|
+13|
+8|
+8|
+4|Palidor's Grace, Breath Weapon Resistance 20|7

14th|
+14|
+9|
+9|
+4|Falling Charge +7d6|7

15th|
+15|
+9|
+9|
+5|Draconic Aura +4|7

16th|
+16|
+10|
+10|
+5|Falling Charge +8d6, Skill Focus (Intimidate)|7

17th|
+17|
+10|
+10|
+5|Breath Weapon Immunity|7

18th|
+18|
+11|
+11|
+6|Falling Charge +9d6|7

19th|
+19|
+11|
+11|
+6|Frightful Presence|7

20th|
+20|
+12|
+12|
+6|Falling Charge +10d6 Full round action, Draconic Aura +5|7[/table]
--
Main Changes!

Slower Aura Progression. Previous one started at 3 and increased every 2 levels. Now it's the opposite. Start at 2, increases every 3 levels.
Light as a Feather properly stuck in there, instead of 'Light' being hastily added.
Evasion stripped out. Replaced by Improved Skill Focus. I didn't like Evasion in there anyway.
In that vein, added in additional Jump bonuses as suggested.
You get Skill Focus (Intimidate) a level earlier. (15th vs 16th)
Now there's Skill Mastery for Jump and Tumble. Never need to worry about rolling lower than 10 again!
Full BAB! I'm going ahead and doing it; It just needs that little oomph.


NEWEST CHANGE

Changed Light as a Feather ability to allow normal movement; moving 20' gives you a -6 to Jumping, turns out.

Xenoti
2007-09-30, 09:41 PM
Dragon's Heart is a book by Jane Yollen :P But i doubt that;s it

Karma Guard
2007-09-30, 09:49 PM
Dragon's Heart is a book by Jane Yollen :P But i doubt that;s it

Unintentional References Count: 1 :V

Think animated. :smallcool:

Xenoti
2007-09-30, 10:04 PM
Hmmm no clue, though the armor reminds me of Kaine >.>

Oh Toy Story "Falling with style" Buzz and woody XD

Karma Guard
2007-09-30, 10:23 PM
Hmmm no clue, though the armor reminds me of Kaine >.>

Oh Toy Story "Falling with style" Buzz and woody XD

Well, it is a Dragoon class.

And good work! You win the prize :D

Xenoti
2007-09-30, 10:32 PM
but werent dragoons historically mounted Units? XD :D

Nu
2007-09-30, 10:38 PM
but werent dragoons historically mounted Units? XD :D

The term "dragoon"(in the usage he is referring to) was actually created(I BELIEVE) when, due to limitations on how many letters could be displayed on the SNES, for the English version of FFIV (FFIIe), they shortened Kain's official class of "Dragon Knight" to "Dragoon."

Edit: I should clarify. I didn't mean the term was ORIGINALLY made up by Final Fantasy, that's silly, hehe. I just mean that that's how it came to describe "jumping dragon knights" in the FF universe. In other usages it means something quite different.

Ponce
2007-09-30, 10:40 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=dragoon

Xenoti
2007-09-30, 10:51 PM
The term "dragoon"(in the usage he is referring to) was actually created(I BELIEVE) when, due to limitations on how many letters could be displayed on the SNES, for the English version of FFIV (FFIIe), they shortened Kain's official class of "Dragon Knight" to "Dragoon."

Edit: I should clarify. I didn't mean the term was ORIGINALLY made up by Final Fantasy, that's silly, hehe. I just mean that that's how it came to describe "jumping dragon knights" in the FF universe. In other usages it means something quite different.

Yeah i know :P I've played every one :P I was just being silly, cause honestly it's a pretty decent class :P As far as I know, i dont run into the jumping mechanic much

Karma Guard
2007-09-30, 10:54 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=dragoon

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Lakidaa/emot-eng101.gif "Dragoons are special knights that equip spears to attack. Their stats are weighted physically, and they can equip heavy armor that is modified to look like a dragon. Their special ability is to Jump, which allows them to do an aerial attack which does more damage than a normal attack. The drawback to this attack is that it takes longer due to the Dragoon having to Jump and then fall on his or her opponent. The advantage to this, however, is that Dragoons do not take damage while airborne."

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dragoon

I'm referring to Final Fantasy Dragoons, not the historical ones. Hence all the Dragon references and the jumping.

Ponce
2007-09-30, 10:57 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Lakidaa/emot-eng101.gif "Dragoons are special knights that equip spears to attack. Their stats are weighted physically, and they can equip heavy armor that is modified to look like a dragon. Their special ability is to Jump, which allows them to do an aerial attack which does more damage than a normal attack. The drawback to this attack is that it takes longer due to the Dragoon having to Jump and then fall on his or her opponent. The advantage to this, however, is that Dragoons do not take damage while airborne."

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dragoon

I'm referring to Final Fantasy Dragoons, not the historical ones. Hence all the Dragon references and the jumping.

I was referring to Nu's post, which didn't make any sense to me until he clarified. :smalltongue:

Karma Guard
2007-09-30, 11:49 PM
I was referring to Nu's post, which didn't make any sense to me until he clarified. :smalltongue:

Whoops.

Well, at least everyone else has it as a reference now. X3

Xenoti
2007-10-01, 10:15 AM
okay, if medium creatures can only jump 8 feet hight (if i'm reading the jump entry at d20 online srd correct) Then how can he say, jump up a cliff? I know their jumping makes them act as flying, but can they really go up that high with a vertical limit for the jump of 8 feet? If so, maybe the Limit should be raised at certain points through character progression? Idk if i read the jump entry wrong or not. If i did, please ignore XD

Karma Guard
2007-10-01, 02:22 PM
okay, if medium creatures can only jump 8 feet hight (if i'm reading the jump entry at d20 online srd correct) Then how can he say, jump up a cliff? I know their jumping makes them act as flying, but can they really go up that high with a vertical limit for the jump of 8 feet? If so, maybe the Limit should be raised at certain points through character progression? Idk if i read the jump entry wrong or not. If i did, please ignore XD

In D&D, Vertical Reach is how high you can reach. A man who is 6 feet tall can reach a ledge 8 feet high just by reaching and maybe going on tippy-toes. A Dragon, who is Huge but is a quadruped, can only reach 16' vertically.

You can jump as high as you want. :V It's just that, for a High jump, the DC is 8*feet jumped. Half that if running. Half that for the dragoon. To jump 10 feet straight up from the get-go is a DC 80 check. For someone who has a running start, it's a DC 40. For the dragoon, it's a DC 20.

Waspinator
2007-10-02, 11:44 AM
Now, the real question is whether or not it's at all balanced to have a fighter who can jump so well that he can almost fly. Would've been useful against Xykon, though. :smalltongue:

Arakune
2007-10-02, 11:57 AM
If i'm not mistaken, in FF 3.5 that this guy is making all the classes are somewhat more powerful (not batman wizard 'I win, you suck' powerful or pun-pun broken) than core, so, it's balanced.

Also, good work.

Waspinator
2007-10-02, 12:36 PM
Ah, ok then. I might be tempted to try playing a Dragoon in a mainly-core campaign anyway. It'd be really cool but I can't decide if it would be too powerful or not. The auras might need some toning down....

Xenoti
2007-10-02, 12:42 PM
In D&D, Vertical Reach is how high you can reach. A man who is 6 feet tall can reach a ledge 8 feet high just by reaching and maybe going on tippy-toes. A Dragon, who is Huge but is a quadruped, can only reach 16' vertically.

You can jump as high as you want. :V It's just that, for a High jump, the DC is 8*feet jumped. Half that if running. Half that for the dragoon. To jump 10 feet straight up from the get-go is a DC 80 check. For someone who has a running start, it's a DC 40. For the dragoon, it's a DC 20.

Soo thats still pretty hight for something the class is ment to do

Kellus
2007-10-02, 01:04 PM
Wow, a Thri-Kreen Dragoon would be pretty sweet.

Penguinizer
2007-10-02, 01:42 PM
Hmm, I recommend adding Leap of the Heavens to the bonus feat list. It fits the idea. Basically, no penalty for not having a running start for jumping. And a bonus I believe.

Karma Guard
2007-10-02, 04:25 PM
Hmm, I recommend adding Leap of the Heavens to the bonus feat list. It fits the idea. Basically, no penalty for not having a running start for jumping. And a bonus I believe.

Giant Leap lets you get all jumps as if you had a running start and the Run feat. It's from the Ninja class. (They might be the same thing but renamed.)


If i'm not mistaken, in FF 3.5 that this guy is making all the classes are somewhat more powerful (not batman wizard 'I win, you suck' powerful or pun-pun broken) than core, so, it's balanced.

Also, good work.

And I'm working on a pure FFX setting; the Wizard and Cleric are both replaced with weaker variants. And thanks :smallsmile:


Soo thats still pretty hight for something the class is ment to do

The Dragoon has at least +7 to jump when he gets to that level. He has to just roll a 13 or better and that's without slapping ranks into Jump.

Waspinator
2007-10-02, 05:34 PM
And if you're playing a freaking DRAGON KNIGHT and you don't put as many skill points as you can into jump there is something wrong with you.

Some math:
Let's say 4th level Dragoon with 16 Strength and 10 Intelligence. He has a +3 Strength and +0 Intelligence bonus-wise, so 8 1st level skill points and 2 every level afterwards. At 1st level, 4 ranks max in class skills so let's say 4 in Jump, 2 in Climb, and 2 in Tumble. By 4th, let's have it be 7 in Jump, 4 in Climb, and 3 in Tumble.

So, this 4th level Dragoon has a Jump bonus of 7 (skill) + 3 (strength) + 3 (skill focus) + 4 (giant leap) aka 17. Making that Falling Charge skill check will not be difficult.

Arakune
2007-10-02, 06:43 PM
And if you're playing a freaking DRAGON KNIGHT and you don't put as many skill points as you can into jump there is something wrong with you.

Why someone doesn't want to max this skill? It's like being a truenamer and doesn't maxing truenaming :smalleek:

Also, do Run and Giant Leap Stack? If soo...

Kain, Human Dragoon, NG
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14
HD 4d10+4 (29 HP); AC: 15 (10 +5 Breastplate); Speed 20 ft (max 80 ft);
BAB/Grapple: +3/+6;
Feats: Weapon Focus (Long Spear) (1st level), Run (human), Skill Focus (Jump) (dragoon), Power Attack (3rd level);
Skills (((2+0)x4+4)+8): Jump +7(+13/+17), Intimidate +6 (+8), Knowledge(Nobility/Royalty) +4, Climb +3(+6);
Class Features: Draconic Aura +1 (Power, Vigor, Toughness), Born Flyer, Giant Leap, Dragoon's Grace, Dragon's Heart, Falling Charge +2d6 2 rounds later, Sky's the Limit.

Against a Medium creature (8'/10'),

Without running: Jump DC 16/5 vertical/horizontal (64/20 original, 32/10 by Giant Leap, 16/5 by Sky's the limit), +13 (+7 ranks, +4 Giant Leap, +3 Str, +3 Skill Focus - 4 Breatplate), need 3/2 to pass;
With running: Jump DC 16/5 (32/10 original, 16/5 by Sky's the limit), +17 (+7 ranks, +4 Giant Leap, +3 Str, +3 Skill Focus, + 4 run - 4 Breatplate), 1+ pass;

Against a Large Creature (16'/10'),

Without running: Jump DC 32/5 vertical horizontal (128/10 original, 64/10 by Giant Leap, 32/5 by Sky's the limit), +13 (+7 ranks, +4 Giant Leap, +3 Str, +3 Skill Focus - 4 Breatplate), need 19/5+ to pass;
With running: Jump DC 32/5 (64/10 original, 32/5 by Sky's the limit), +17 (+7 ranks, +4 Giant Leap, +3 Str, +3 Skill Focus, + 4 run - 4 Breatplate), need 15/1+ to pass;

Against a Huge Creature (32'/10'):Still impossible

So, if you fight with Medium sized creatures you are 'the WIN', large are still challenging and above it is impossible. IF run stacks with giant leap. EVEN IF DOESN'T, you can put a full plate and still jump very high.

Edit: You know, to jump 128 ft (~38,4 m) you need to to pass a jump check with DC 64, so at level 20 th: 23 ranks + 10 Sr (str 16 + 4 level + 5 tome +6 belt) + 3 Skill focus + 4 run + 5 ring = 45, need 19 to pass the jump check. Still can't go to stratosphere or outreach a colossal creature all the time... shame :smallfrown:

Karma Guard
2007-10-02, 08:06 PM
Why someone doesn't want to max this skill? It's like being a truenamer and doesn't maxing truenaming :smalleek:

Also, do Run and Giant Leap Stack? If soo...

{MATH}



Oh wow, this is amazing. Someone actually did all the math. I think...I think I love you. :smallbiggrin:

I might add in another ability to further lower the Jump DC (haw haw 1/8th! :V) later in the class, or maybe a flat Jump bonus.

Xenoti
2007-10-02, 08:32 PM
Oh wow, this is amazing. Someone actually did all the math. I think...I think I love you. :smallbiggrin:

I might add in another ability to further lower the Jump DC (haw haw 1/8th! :V) later in the class, or maybe a flat Jump bonus.

Could always give them the Jump feat from besm

Jump
Adds 20 to all jump checks made

But not that drastic

Waspinator
2007-10-02, 09:56 PM
You know, I think I would play this class simply so I could recreate this:
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=070911

Catch
2007-10-02, 10:16 PM
Yeah, I've toyed with jumping abilities in d20 systems and had decidedly disappointing results. D&D just ain't wuxia.

As it stands, you could give the dragoon a significant bonus to his Jump skill (You'll need something around +30-40 to really get those big jumps). Instead of giving the Dragoon massive bonuses to his Jump skill, though, why not draw up a new table for Dragoon jump checks? I'd redefine Sky's The Limit to include this new set.

Waspinator
2007-10-03, 12:26 AM
I really am seriously tempted to try playing this as a real character; I just don't know how it'd work. Would it be overpowered? Underpowered? Smacking my head into ceilings all the time?

It'd be worth it though if I would be able to pull off the following:

Imagine a reasonably typical scenario. The PCs have found the room with the big, bad enemy wizard and his army of undead minions. The wizard is floating in mid-air at the back of the room shooting spells at the PCs while they're having to fight the undead to get over to him. Would it be hypothetically possible under the d20 rules for a dragoon to leap over to the wizard, use Falling Charge to plant his lance into his skull, and then leap (mid-air) off of his body back to where he started?:elan:

Dryad
2007-10-03, 01:00 AM
I think the flying spell would falter the moment the caster lost consciousness. Otherwise brilliant idea!

One thing: Scrap the 'Dragoon' name.
All other things: I like the way how you've exploited movement. I love exploiting movement, making tactical skirmishing winning the fight instead of stupid brawn.

Waspinator
2007-10-03, 01:15 AM
You're probably right. If the attack did kill or KO the wizard, then his spell probably should be gone by the next round (when I'd be jumping back) and if he's falling he'd make no sense as a starting point for a return jump.

However, I just realized that as long as the wizard is high enough off of the ground I could always just use Fall with Style to get back. That works!

Arakune
2007-10-03, 03:06 PM
Or just jump and trow the spear in the face of the wizard:

D:Okay, JUMP!
W:You can't hit m...
****
Fighter: You can trow your spear to your enemy too?
D:Apparently, yes.

Give him these things for jump:

Improved Skill Focus : replace the +3 bonus to +6
Greater Skill Focus: replace the +6 bonus to +8
Perfect Skill Focus: replace the +8 bonus to +12
Skill Mastery: You can take 10 even in situations that you normally couldn't.

Karma Guard
2007-10-03, 05:53 PM
Or just jump and trow the spear in the face of the wizard:

D:Okay, JUMP!
W:You can't hit m...
****
Fighter: You can trow your spear to your enemy too?
D:Apparently, yes.

Give him these things for jump:

Improved Skill Focus : replace the +3 bonus to +6
Greater Skill Focus: replace the +6 bonus to +8
Perfect Skill Focus: replace the +8 bonus to +12
Skill Mastery: You can take 10 even in situations that you normally couldn't.

You know, I forgot those abilities. :V I could probably just tape those into the class, stripping out Evasion and possibly a slower Aura progression. I just stuck it in there originally because 7th level was totally dead v(._.)v

Waspinator
2007-10-04, 11:26 AM
I'll look forward to seeing the revision!

Karma Guard
2007-10-05, 02:16 AM
New table added! :smallcool:

Suggestions integrated as asked.

Arakune
2007-10-05, 05:35 PM
New math:

Level 20th:
Kain, Human Dragoon, NG
Abilities: Str 31(+10,) Dex 10 (+0), Con 13 (+1), Int 10(+0), Wis 12(+1), Cha 14(+2)
HD 20d10 + 20 (120 average); Speed 20 (max 80ft); AC 23 (10 base, +8 full plate, +5 enchantment; he have more magic items to spare and will use according the situation)
Feats: Run(Human), Skill Focus (Jump) (1st level), Weapon Focus (Long Spear) (2nd, Dragoon), Power Attack (3rd Level), *Leap Attack (6th level), Skill Focus(Tumble) (8th, Dragoon), Endurance (12th level), Skill Focus (Intimidate) (15th), Improved Initiative (15th, Dragoon), Diehard (18th)

* The only non-core feat I'm using, I don't think it stacks with Falling Charge

Class Features: Draconic Aura +5, Born Flyer, Giant Leap, Dragoon's Grace, Dragon's Heart, Falling Charge +10d6 full round action, Sky's the Limit, Superior Skill Focus (Jump +12), Frightful Presence, Breath Weapon Immunity, Skill Mastery (Jump, Tumble), Palidor's Grace, Fall with Style, Light as a Feather (Heavy).

Skills (52 pts):
Jump +23/+58;
(+4 run, +4 giant leap, +5 ring, +12 superior skill focus, +10 Str = 58)
Intimidate + 13/+18
(+3 skill focus, +2 cha)
Knowledge(Nobility/Royalty) + 10
Climb +6/+10
(+10 Str)

Please, someone else do the damage math (I don't think it's all that much, compared to that 10^14 charge damage monster...)

Max Vertical Jump possible: DC 78 (on a natural 20, 156ft ) = ~46,8 m
Average 62~64 (taking 10, rolling 12, 128ft) = ~38,4 m

Max Horizontal Jump possible: DC 78 (on a natural 20, 78 ft) = ~23,4 m
Average 62~64 (taking 10, rolling 12, 64 ft) = ~19,2 m

Max Distance Traveled with glide: (156-5)/5 (-5 to avoid hitting the ground with his face, 604 ft) = ~181,2 m

Congratulations sir, you can jump past the Eiffel Tower in ~8 Jumps, and don't even need to make a run before the jump.

Conversions: 30ft ~ 9 m. (When you look at metric system, it's not that impressive, at least not compared to jumping to stratosphere and falling like a comet in your enemy a la 8-bit theatre)

Edit: In ideal conditions, our beloved Dragoon will fall at ~99km/h. Sweet.

wadledo
2007-10-05, 06:45 PM
O_O
So much stealage it's not even funny.

Arakune
2007-10-05, 09:42 PM
O_O
So much stealage it's not even funny.

so much what :smallconfused: ?

wadledo
2007-10-05, 09:50 PM
Stealage: v.
Pronounced Steal-Age,
to steal
from the wadledoish: Nayayayayayayoooooot.

Arakune
2007-10-05, 09:57 PM
Stealage: v.
Pronounced Steal-Age,
to steal
from the wadledoish: Nayayayayayayoooooot.

it's a good or a bad thing?

wadledo
2007-10-05, 10:01 PM
Yes I'm using the Class in a game, and I am making that fact known to the person who created it so if he feels I should not I won't.

Waspinator
2007-10-06, 02:16 AM
I'm honestly tempted to take the time to do some "mock-up" encounters at various levels with a standard party (say, a wizard, a cleric, and a rogue to be very boring) and then to compare the results between if they have a fighter as the fourth guy and if they had one of these dragoons. The dragoon's not going to be as good of a meat shield due to the lower hit die, but the crazy jumping ability should make it so easy to move around that he should be able to always be in the right place at the right time. The question is whether he's effective enough to pull off his melee role ONCE he's in that right place.

Edit:
On a different note, something worth thinking about is the origin of this classe's abilities. Although I guess you could hypothetically, to again reference 8-Bit Theater, do ten thousand squats and jumping jacks per day, but I think that only works up until a point. :smallamused:
The auras are what really make me think there's something more going on here that could give a DM some interesting backstory material for many different, more supernatural explanations. The most obvious is that the Dragon Knights learned their abilties from dragons themselves. This could be a direct plot point in a campaign and cause some (probably good) dragons to side with the party against other dragons who think that the secrets of dragonkind have been betrayed.
Another is the air-based, anti-dragon that 8-Bit seems to be going with, where the dragoons are a class of warriors who were granted powers by the elemental spirits of air in order to fight an army of dragons that was ravaging the world. This could also be an important plot element if used correctly and also give allies.
A third is that the dragoons are secretly really some kind of engineer/tinker class and that they've been building secret rocket-boots and oderless "aura" potion misters for years. :smalltongue:

Karma Guard
2007-10-06, 03:20 AM
The dragoon's not going to be as good of a meat shield due to the lower hit die, but the crazy jumping ability should make it so easy to move around that he should be able to always be in the right place at the right time. The question is whether he's effective enough to pull off his melee role ONCE he's in that right place.

Not to mention he can tumble as much as he wants in his Heavy Armor. In Final Fantasy, Dragoons are straight up heavy armor wearing meatwalls who hit hard with spears (stronger than swords) or swords (more common. Also, blood sword), and can totally cheese out of the boss's final attack with a well-timed Jump. they were also horrible with magic, which just doesn't translate. They've actually got a specific ability set in FF9 and FFTA. But I didn't want to adapt those. They didn't fit with the 'classic' Dragoon from FF4 and FFT.


On a different note, something worth thinking about is the origin of this classe's abilities. Although I guess you could hypothetically, to again reference 8-Bit Theater, do ten thousand squats and jumping jacks per day, but I think that only works up until a point. :smallamused:
The auras are what really make me think there's something more going on here that could give a DM some interesting backstory material for many different, more supernatural explanations. The most obvious is that the Dragon Knights learned their abilties from dragons themselves. This could be a direct plot point in a campaign and cause some (probably good) dragons to side with the party against other dragons who think that the secrets of dragonkind have been betrayed.
Another is the air-based, anti-dragon that 8-Bit seems to be going with, where the dragoons are a class of warriors who were granted powers by the elemental spirits of air in order to fight an army of dragons that was ravaging the world. This could also be an important plot element if used correctly and also give allies. :smalltongue:

Thankfully, in vanilla D&D, both can be true! Thank goodness for parallel deities. Bahamut could have empowered them against Tiamat, or vice-versa. In that case, you could (probably should) limit their Auras to one elemental type, based on an appropriate mentor/totemic dragon (Which is what the Dragon Shaman has to do.).

Not to mention that misters and rocket boots would be (Ex) :smallwink:

Anxe
2007-10-06, 10:03 AM
Great class! Really well worked out. Noe for my grips.
The BAB. I know you like 3/4, but I like the Full one better.
Falling Charge. Shouldn't this give a bonus to attack too?
And this guy is fairly useless in a Dungeon, so that's bad. Maybe allow him to do a Bullet Charge where he jumps straight at the enemy to attack. It would be less effective than Falling Charge, but usable underground.

Arakune
2007-10-06, 10:31 AM
Great class! Really well worked out. Noe for my grips.
The BAB. I know you like 3/4, but I like the Full one better.
Falling Charge. Shouldn't this give a bonus to attack too?
And this guy is fairly useless in a Dungeon, so that's bad. Maybe allow him to do a Bullet Charge where he jumps straight at the enemy to attack. It would be less effective than Falling Charge, but usable underground.

You never played FF, aren't you? When you use the jump ability on a dungeon, you open a space rift and are teleported to some 'dragoon' special plane where you can have as much space to end your jump and then return just to step in your enemy face with a heavy piercing weapon.

Anxe
2007-10-06, 10:42 AM
So it does work in dungeons? Weird... Well that answers one of my gripes then.

Xenoti
2007-10-06, 02:22 PM
So it does work in dungeons? Weird... Well that answers one of my gripes then.

Ina dungeon

Dragoon: *jumps*
Dm: Take 3d6 for bashing your head against the ceiling
Dragoon: Doh!

Karma Guard
2007-10-06, 03:26 PM
So it does work in dungeons? Weird... Well that answers one of my gripes then.

Like he said, in FF, Dragoons can always jump no matter where they are. I guess the DM will just have to accomodate. I mean, people who can fly can't really do that in a dungeon, but just having wings from the get-go (not Raptoran-style 'no flying until 10th HD') is at least +1 LA. He may not be good in a tiny dungeon, but then again, neither is a dragon. :smallwink:

He also has Auras like the Dragon shaman, and the ability to tumble around in full-plate as much as he wants. Full BAB is a simple idea to make him more useful, but I dunno. I haven't actually played this (and if anyone wants to, go ahead; I wouldn't have posted if I wanted to keep it all to myself).

Also, Falling Charge, as a Charge, gives +2 to the Attack roll. I don't know if that's enough, but you're already getting full concealment when you jump and bonus damage. :V

Anxe
2007-10-06, 03:41 PM
And you get that +1 bonus for attacking from above. Nevermind +3 bonus is enough for me.

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-06, 03:48 PM
Wait, I thought Dragoons rode horses.

Anxe
2007-10-06, 03:52 PM
Wait, I thought Dragoons rode horses.

If you'd read the first 5 posts or so you'd know the answer. Not that type of Dragoon. Dragoon is a shortening of Dragon Knight that was used in FF.

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-06, 03:55 PM
If you'd read the first 5 posts or so you'd know the answer. Not that type of Dragoon. Dragoon is a shortening of Dragon Knight that was used in FF.

Wait, I thought knights rode horses.

Karma Guard
2007-10-06, 04:29 PM
Wait, I thought knights rode horses.

In FF, Knights are fighter-types in heavy armor that use knightly weapons.

Waspinator
2007-10-06, 06:45 PM
It's Final Fantasy. Emphasis on the fantasy part, as in not real.
Also, see here:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dragoon

Karma Guard
2007-10-23, 09:42 PM
Screw it; I'm giving this full BAB.

Changes added.

Akennedy
2007-10-24, 05:52 AM
I like it, to be honest. It's pretty cool actually! However, the only critique i have is the overusage of Leap Attack with shock trooper/ Power attack. But, cool none the less.

Cieyrin
2007-11-04, 06:54 PM
Also, do Run and Giant Leap Stack? If soo...


Giant Leap gives you a virtual feat version of Run, so no, you couldn't take the Run feat and get the benefit twice, since the feat doesn't let you take it multiple times for more benefit. You could replace Run with Leap of the Heavens so that when you do actually run, you get a +5 competance bonus to the jump, which'll do what you want it to. Unfortunately won't stack with Rings of Jumping (Normal or Improved) or Boots of Striding and Springing but you could retrain it for something else at that point, since it would be redundant by then, anyways.

Speaking of Boots of Striding and Springing, unfortunately to rain on everybody's parade, jumping is effected by your speed, so all these dragoons running around in Breastplates and Full Plate are gonna be hurting with their 20' move speeds netting them a -6 penalty to Jump. Better invest in some Mithral or else I'd add an ability like the Knight's (PHB2) Armor Mastery ability to remove the speed reduction. I personally think that fits into the Dragoon's theme of jumping around despite the heavy armor they're running around in but that's just me.

Karma Guard
2007-11-04, 11:12 PM
Speaking of Boots of Striding and Springing, unfortunately to rain on everybody's parade, jumping is effected by your speed, so all these dragoons running around in Breastplates and Full Plate are gonna be hurting with their 20' move speeds netting them a -6 penalty to Jump. Better invest in some Mithral or else I'd add an ability like the Knight's (PHB2) Armor Mastery ability to remove the speed reduction. I personally think that fits into the Dragoon's theme of jumping around despite the heavy armor they're running around in but that's just me.

Well, shoot. You're right. -6 penalty for moving 20'. I'll edit in the 'Move full speed' thing to Light as a Feather, then.