Vow of Poverty, Money?

[Armyguyclaude]

Hi!

I'm currently going to be playing in a one shot this weekend. I have level 11 wealth by level, but I have vow of poverty feat. Would I even be able to spend any of this? Money up to 6th LvL WBL? Just trying to decide if I should if at all.

Thank you for any future help you give.

[AnimeTheCat]

Hi!

I'm currently going to be playing in a one shot this weekend. I have level 11 wealth by level, but I have vow of poverty feat. Would I even be able to spend any of this? Money up to 6th LvL WBL? Just trying to decide if I should if at all.

Thank you for any future help you give.

About the best you can do is pick up a quarter staff of other simple weapon, sack tunic, maybe a bag of some kind, and spell component pouch if you're a caster. Otherwise, be specific to your DM what causes you've dedicated that money to. What I usually do with a vow of poverty character is take my share of the loot in the gear from the enemies, clean it and mend it, then donate it to the impoverished and teach them to defend themselves. Roleplaying wise, this has eventually led to npcs becoming squires, guards, sometimes even knights, and in turn those people are helpful to my character. Otherwise, if that's not your cup of tea, you can just dump it in to the church of your choosing.

[MisterKaws]

Hi!

I'm currently going to be playing in a one shot this weekend. I have level 11 wealth by level, but I have vow of poverty feat. Would I even be able to spend any of this? Money up to 6th LvL WBL? Just trying to decide if I should if at all.

Thank you for any future help you give.

Nope, nothing. You need to take your share and give to charity. As stated above, you could come with an explanation on how you're helping people with that money, but I guess that doesn't matter on a one-shot.

Anyway, you get nothing but a set of clothing, a simple weapon(not masterwork), and a spell pouch. RAI, you could also say you're allowed to carry an instrument, if you're a Bard, or a tool set, if you're a Rogue. Though both these classes are quite a crappy choice for VoP.

[Particle_Man]

If you are starting at 11th, you could have taken the vow of poverty at 9th level. Then previously you could have used the wbl of an 8th level character to read a stat boosting book like the manual of gainful exercise. You would lose out on the exalted bonus feats you would have gotten by taking the vow of poverty earlier, but could keep the inherent bonus to the relevant stat.

Edit: Just checked. You would be 500 gp short to get even the +1 bonus. Sorry!

[Kalkra]

I think you can split it evenly between the rest of your party. You might then be able to have them buy stuff which you use without owning. The rules are very poorly written.

[Eldariel]

I think you can split it evenly between the rest of your party. You might then be able to have them buy stuff which you use without owning. The rules are very poorly written.

The book is quite specific about you having to donate your share to charity.

[Particle_Man]

I once got some shocked looks when my VoP monk during treasure splitting said "I want that humanbane unholy heavy pick!"

. . .

"I want to donate it to the Church of Pelor so that it can be consecrated." :smallbiggrin:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The book is quite specific about you having to donate your share to charity.What it says is about half of your share, actually.

It never says anything about what you can do with the other half, except you can't use it to buy stuff or use equipment from it.

[weckar]

USE money ON door

"The door somehow accepts your gracious donation and steps aside. -- That happened."

[GrayDeath]

USE money ON door

"The door somehow accepts your gracious donation and steps aside. -- That happened."


Indeed, it did.

OK, said Door was an intelligent Animated Object, but still, it did. Glasd to hear someone else managed to bribe a Door.
Try it, its great!



@ OP: Depends heavily on how your DM stands.

I ahve had ones saying its totally fine to give the other half of your share to the party, usually in form of buying potions and other consumables, as it frees the other members from having to allovate stuff to that.

I ahve also ahd DM`s who simply reduced the loot by anything a VoP Character would get, and called it a day.

Arguing "I took the Vow later, so my party has X/I ahve read a Stat Book however is cheesy. Not very, but it is. That might exclude it from many a DM`s table. Just a warning.

Now I as DM would rate a VoP Monk one shot char at Level 11 as having nog ear sans the VoP allowed, but allow having read a stat book in an orders monastery his donations allowed to excavate or somesuch. But nothing more. The Vow is supposed to be hard (granted I also allow doubling up on multiple VoP Bonuses if other Vows are taken, for example, and boost the original VoP a fair bit, but thats homebrewed^^).

[weckar]

Indeed, it did.
Arguing "I took the Vow later, so my party has X/I ahve read a Stat Book however is cheesy. Not very, but it is. That might exclude it from many a DM`s table. Just a warning.
As some of the most important VoP benefits are not retro-active, taking it later is inherently weaker. That makes it balanced.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I once got some shocked looks when my VoP monk during treasure splitting said "I want that humanbane unholy heavy pick!"

. . .

"I want to donate it to the Church of Pelor so that it can be consecrated." :smallbiggrin:

In my experience this is the best way to be a team player with Vow of Poverty and makes up for those times when your inability to provide your own flight or cast from wands annoys the party. Especially if the item is out of level and the party otherwise would have faced a moral quandary over whether to sell it thus spreading evil or losing out on a big payday.

[Kalkra]

As some of the most important VoP benefits are not retro-active, taking it later is inherently weaker. That makes it balanced.

The only non-retroactive benefits are the feats, which are almost all bad.

[liquidformat]

The only non-retroactive benefits are the feats, which are almost all bad.

There are a couple good feats, I have actually found if I take it too early I run out of feats I can take which is obnoxious.

On a side note, if you could somehow get around the masterwork requirement of ancestral relic it would actually work really well with VoP. (I am not quite sure what the difference is between sacrificing vs donating treasure to the church is but it seems reasonable that these terms are interchangeable...)
I once had a dm that let me have a ancestral relic great sword and VoP as a paladin, it was actually a really cool and fun character. I made my own order called the Bleeding Rose that was an order of ascetic knights of justice.

[Bphill561]

If you are starting at 11th, you could have taken the vow of poverty at 9th level. Then previously you could have used the wbl of an 8th level character to read a stat boosting book like the manual of gainful exercise. You would lose out on the exalted bonus feats you would have gotten by taking the vow of poverty earlier, but could keep the inherent bonus to the relevant stat.

Edit: Just checked. You would be 500 gp short to get even the +1 bonus. Sorry!

If you do take Vow of Poverty later and are allowed to spend money up to a certain level this could still possibly work.

Option 1: 8th level wealth. Get someone to cast the wish you. The price is 90*caster level (17) +25,000gp for xp costs or 26,530 gp. Now you may not be able to find a caster that can do this.

Option 2: DMG II Feat retaining. Cheesy especially for a one shot, but you could say spend your monies and then feat retrain at level 11. This would allow a +2 book.

Option 3: Abyssal Feat Shuffle. Normally I think the abyssal feat (Shun/Embrace the Dark Chaos Spells from Fiend Codex 1) shuffle is a little cheesy if you use it on armor feats and the like, but it is perfectly okay in my book to repick standard select-able feats. So make your level 11 character with 66,000gp without Vow of Poverty. Buy a +2 stat book, and spend 2x2,450 gp on two castings of the feat shuffle spells. They are under 3,000gp each, so at least by the spell casting service section in the DMG they should be available. Just having one Abyssal feat does not trigger a chaotic shift (and they are not evil). The DM may declare that having a Chaotic spell cast on you as a Lawful character might cause problems, but that is the least of your worries in this scheme.

Option 4: Maybe grafts are okay? Grafts from the fiends folio are not magic items and become part of your body. Technically they do state they add to the creatures treasure value in encounters, but it would be kind mean to force you to rip out body parts for VoP. Maug Stone spicks cost 4,000 and add 1d4 to your unarmed strike damage. Undead arms cost 40,000gp and give a +4 inherent bonus to strength plus additional abilities. Just avoid fiendish grafts, they will drive your non-evil character evil/insane.

Option 5: Magical Locations. Again these have treasure equivalent values but are not treasure. You might be able to use one of these to pick up a feat or ability of interest.

Option 6: Buy a Friend. You could buy a warbeast templated animal from Monster Manual 2, it has listed cost per hit die and can be applied to any animal. Then pay to have it Awakened by a druid. It may like you or not, but you set it free so you don't own it. A legendary eagle might be interesting, declare you monk fighting style eagle claw for enhanced RP.

Option 7: If you have too much time on your hands. Design a fortress, cough cough soup kitchen for the poor using the stronghold builder's guide. Donate to the charity (monk temple for under privilege youth) of your choice so you no longer own it. They should still be happy to see and let you use the facilities. Maybe build a rune circle (races of stone) under a oak tree. Have a device that casts acorn of far travel in the fortress available for teachers/voluneteers at the temple to use. That last bit might trigger buying stuff for other people to use on you.

Each of these comes with a high chance of the DM throwing something heavy at you.

[Endarire]

Donate the rest of your money to the party by having them start a formal, "Saving the World Fund/Foundation."

Consider this: Your actions help the poor (they continue to survive since fewer threats are around), aid the economy (you're a big spender and seller and possibly hire people to serve in your private army/keep), and may act as inspiration to those around you to take more risks and do greater things in life (like Olympic athletes).

[Thurbane]

Does VoP allow you to use your (slightly-less-than) half share that isn't donated charity to buy services? I've had a look, and I can't see a restriction on this, unless I'm missing something...

Could you use the money to "pre-purchase" the services of a hireling? Maybe pay up a mercenary half a year in advance or something?

[Particle_Man]

Donate the rest of your money to the party by having them start a formal, "Saving the World Fund/Foundation."

Consider this: Your actions help the poor (they continue to survive since fewer threats are around), aid the economy (you're a big spender and seller and possibly hire people to serve in your private army/keep), and may act as inspiration to those around you to take more risks and do greater things in life (like Olympic athletes).

I think that is specifically banned in the book. As in no pc charity loopholes - it has to be an npc one. How a pc knows who is and is not another pc is not answered.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I think that is specifically banned in the book. As in no pc charity loopholes - it has to be an npc one. How a pc knows who is and is not another pc is not answered.Nah, that's for just over half your share of the loot. You're totally capable of using the other (slightly less than) half for your party. You just can't buy stuff to own (or, for that matter, own the >half, but whatever).

[PoeticallyPsyco]

If you go Apostle of Peace you can spend the other half on (non-armor) defensive items for yourself.

[lord_khaine]

Isnt it your entire share of the loot thats needed to somehow be donated?
I certainly recall so.

Also.. all the clever loopholes with grafts and wishes is of course a funny mental excercise.
But unlikely to be allowed. Especially since the book goes out of its way to explain how its importal to follow the spirit of the material.


Option 7: If you have too much time on your hands. Design a fortress, cough cough soup kitchen for the poor using the stronghold builder's guide. Donate to the charity (monk temple for under privilege youth) of your choice so you no longer own it. They should still be happy to see and let you use the facilities. Maybe build a rune circle (races of stone) under a oak tree. Have a device that casts acorn of far travel in the fortress available for teachers/voluneteers at the temple to use. That last bit might trigger buying stuff for other people to use on you.

This is i think, is so far the best suggestion. Very small chance of thrown books.
High chance of being confused with a roleplayer.

[GrayDeath]

High chance of being confused with a roleplayer.

Add to that actually, you know, TAKING one of the Exalted Feats at all outside a TO Exercise, and one is almost guaranteed said moniker. ^^

[magic9mushroom]

I think you can split it evenly between the rest of your party. You might then be able to have them buy stuff which you use without owning. The rules are very poorly written.


Having a character in the party who has taken a vow of
poverty should not necessarily mean that the other party members
get bigger shares of treasure! An ascetic character must be
as extreme in works of charity as she is in self-denial. The majority
of her share of party treasure (or the profits from the sale
thereof ) should be donated to the needy, either directly (equipping
rescued captives with gear taken from their fallen captors)
or indirectly (making a large donation to a temple noted for its
work among the poor).


You may not, however, “borrow” a
cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion for
even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from a
scroll, wand, or staff.



Also, regarding Apostle of Peace... there's kind of an issue, because holy symbols have a price and aren't an exclusion from Vow of Poverty.

I'll note that I wouldn't allow instruments for a bard (Perform(sing) and Perform(dance) don't need instruments) or tools for a rogue (it's -2 circumstance penalty for not having them, big whoop). I probably would allow a holy symbol for an Apostle of Peace, though, because that's just sad otherwise.

[hamishspence]

There's a 0th level spell in Complete Champion that allows one to summon up a holy symbol. I wouldn't count summoned (as opposed to bought) holy symbols as breaking the rule.

[AnimeTheCat]

Whenever I've DM'd someone playing a VoP character, their quarters taffeta has the holy symbol carved in it, if they don't use a quarterstaff, they're marked by their God and have the holy symbol emblazoned on their body in some place of their choosing.

Whenever I play a bard with VoP, I take perform (oratory) and treat it as though i'm reciting scripture.

[Troacctid]

I believe it says that if you donate money to churches, they will usually offer free spellcasting services to you as thanks.

Some forms of "wealth" are allowed to a character with a vow so long as they were gained before the vow was taken, including grafts, symbionts, magical locations, and spellcasting services (e.g. permanency).