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View Full Version : When a Campaign Stumbles....



Saximus1921
2007-09-30, 08:45 PM
Hey there all! I was hoping I could get some advice on what to do with an issue that has been bothering me and most of my fellow players. We all have a dilemma about what to do concerning a new campaign that was started that has since....well, stumbled. The problem is: we don't really like it.

A bit of backstory: one of the newer players to our group, Josh, decided a while back that he wanted to try out the DM reins as my latest campaign was coming to a close. He told us he had been working on it for a while, and he really wanted to do it, so we all got onboard.

He didn't tell us much about what the campaign was going to be about, except that it was in the typical D&D fashion, high-fantasy, medieval-style..."the basic stuff, the usual," as he said. Gestalted character to boot. He asked us to start writing up our characters, and so we all started to work on characters/backstory.

I decided to do something a bit different and play a Human Warlock/Dread Necromancer who was Lawful Neutral (we kinda dropped the warlock AL restrictions). I asked him about this and he greenlighted it. Other players chose an Orc Bard/Barbarian, a Human Ninja/Beguiler, and a Human Warblade/Wizard. He greenlighted everybody's character, and we fired it up.

Then things...kinda got weird. On our website, he started to talk about how his campaign had "no real story, just a selection of paths you guys can walk upon, with no designated end; the campaign will end when you guys want it to end. You can do some quests, or not, but it's totally non-linear, freeform, impromptu campaign. I'll have things prepared, but most of it will be off the cuff."

Added onto that, I had crafted a pretty lengthy backstory I had given to him a while back, and he then told me "yeah, I didn't think it would fit the campaign, so made a new one for you." This was, however, after he said my backstory was fine and said it wasn't any problem. He then proceeded to give me a new backstory that had nothing to do with character whatsoever, basically turning my character from an ex-doctor with an obsession with necromancy (kinda Dr. Frankenstein'ish, I know) into an ex-convict who can't enter towns without disguising myself. :smallyuk:

Also, he began to tell the character who was the Warblade/Wizard (again, after he said he had no problem with him being a Warblade) that he thought the Warblade was "really unbalanced," and handed him his own version of a totally nerfed Warblade. I never got a copy, but I remember when they, Josh and the War/Wiz, were arguing about it that he lowered the HD to d10, lowered their skills/skill points, removed most of the class features, and limited him to 6th level manuevers that he could use only, at max, 2-3 times per day at high levels. He managed to convince the War/Wiz to give it a shot, and after the first fight it was painfully evident the class stunk something awful.

This was all pretty hard to swallow because Josh is normally more than a bit of a powergamer and always, always, gives me or anybody else who happens to be DM at the time a very, very hard time whenever we restrict/disallow any class, race, etc.

The first few sessions we did didn't go so well. The War/Wiz was pretty cheesed off, and I admit I was upset how my backstory had been tossed out pretty much entirely, so we didn't enter the campaign in a good mood. On top of that it became pretty obvious fairly quickly that he wasn't really all that prepared. We basically just kinda roamed around, doing odd jobs (like killing some monsters here and there to rouding up missing cows), staying at the inn, repeat. None of the NPC's we ever talked to really had any names (Joe the bartender, Bob the farmer, etc.), as he said he had no storyline, and none of the quests we did ever had anything to do with...well, anything.

The last session we did, we got a bit bored and the War/Wiz and the Beguiler began to get into a lot of mischief and ended up robbing most of the town blind of their belongings. Josh got pretty mad and had them unceremoniounsly found and caught by the guards by total DM fiat, and we all got kicked out of town. We ended the session wandering around the forest trying to catch dinner. :smallconfused:

Since then, when we have asked him if when we were going to do his campaign, he basically just responds with a "meh." It's pretty obvious to me and everyone else that he feels like we're being a bunch of jerks and not playing nicely. Although he didn't tell us at the time, he had the idea that we were going to be monster-stomping, Good-Aligned hero types, and none of us are (we a mix of neutral and the beguiler/ninja is neutral evil). Since we don't fit that archetype (mostly because he never said that's what he had in mind), the campaign has stumbled, and the bad sessions I think soured his take on the DM's chair.

I'm now left with a dilemma of whether I should do. The problem is that since he's ambivalent about doing his campaign, we haven't played D&D for a few weeks now since we're still technically doing his campaign, which is starting to kill the rest of us. So, I ask, do I:

1. Attempt to patch things up and get his campaign running again, even though I, and the rest of our group, don't really like it?
2. Just start a new one and get D&D moving again?
3. Give him more time to get over his funk?
4. Or something else I haven't considered?

I have tried talking to him multiple times about this, and everytime he doesn't avoid the question he just shrugs his shoulders and says "meh." I'm at a loss. What should we do?

Volug
2007-09-30, 08:56 PM
Added onto that, I had crafted a pretty lengthy backstory I had given to him a while back, and he then told me "yeah, I didn't think it would fit the campaign, so made a new one for you." This was, however, after he said my backstory was fine and said it wasn't any problem. He then proceeded to give me a new backstory that had nothing to do with character whatsoever, basically turning my character from an ex-doctor with an obsession with necromancy (kinda Dr. Frankenstein'ish, I know) into an ex-convict who can't enter towns without disguising myself

*DING* number 1 sign your DM's a tard. making you play characters he created/gave backstory of. That is a horrible way for a DM to do things, one thing is asking if you can use this backstory/character. But to say that you HAD to use it is just.... stupid.

that aside i suggest you either..
1.Tell him that you would be more then happy to start this over with all origanal stuff you had before he switched them, maybe a few tweeks. Go from there
2.Start a new campaign and forget this ever happened.
3.Cry and worry about it for the rest of your life.

If your a nice forgiving guy, go with 1. if you dont want anything to do with it go with 2. if your emo go with 3.

I'm willing to answer a couple more questions if you have any.

TheLogman
2007-09-30, 08:59 PM
Ask for justification for changing the character's backstory, and for the Warblade "Fix". Point out that if there's no real story, then there's no point in changing a backstory at all. Explain that you kind of expected to do something besides random stuff that any DM could do on the fly (Probably should phrase it nicer than that). If you're feeling a little risky, then ask to see the REAL campaign he worked on, since this can't be it. If you can't get him to change it, then "Walk down" on of the "Freeform paths" provided, specifically the "I am a Necromancer that likes Nercomancing, and therefor shall now craft an undead army of doom, slay these pathetic simpletons, change this pitiful town into a fortress of my own design, and then destory the living in the most terrible way I desire." This sounds fun, and could probably lead to you "Winning" the campaign, and showing that you guys choose to end this. Make sure the other players are okay with your choice before you do anything though.

Consider giving him another chance, explaining that a good plot is better than a sandbox (At least that what it seems to be in this case) and that you guys are willing to play, but only if he is willing to cooperate.

Icewalker
2007-09-30, 09:02 PM
Well, either ask to refit the stuff back to how it was originally made, like mentioned above, try to make him create at least one full adventure for you, or try to get him into a character and get someone else to take over as DM, but keep these characters. I like the last option, because your original character background sounds awesome.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-30, 10:22 PM
Personally, I say drop it and start a new game. I have had a number of games end like this (stumble, not the crazy nerfing and changing backstory). My group just says "we don't care for this game" so I just say "fine, I'll pull out the other two I've had in the works, you want to try X or Y?" I did have one DM that has tried (and failed) to start up a number of games for a few reasons.
1) he always tries to run an eberron game that no one else in the group likes.
2) he has a habit of being over controlling.
3) he breaks our characters. (as in, giving us too powerful loot that makes us too powerful)
One time he started to tell me my backstory for one of the games. I got really pissed off and told him I had it covered, but he did not seem to give up, mostly because he had already decided exactly how the game would end and what our characters would do. That's my experience.

crimson77
2007-10-01, 09:52 AM
1. Attempt to patch things up and get his campaign running again, even though I, and the rest of our group, don't really like it?
2. Just start a new one and get D&D moving again?
3. Give him more time to get over his funk?
4. Or something else I haven't considered?

I have tried talking to him multiple times about this, and everytime he doesn't avoid the question he just shrugs his shoulders and says "meh." I'm at a loss. What should we do?

First, i have noticed that some power gamers tend to nerf different classes when they DM. I do not have a reason for this, it is just an observation.

Second, I think that once a campaign is in the toilet, it is best to just flush it down.

I would approach things like this. I would call each player and say, "Hey we have not played in a couple of weeks, I have a hankering for a campaign and i have been working on a campaign (of if you are not the usual DM talk to the usual DM that he should start a campaign and then take charge and say that you have hear about the new ideas for a campaign that the usual DM has been telling you.)." Call Josh last and tell him the same thing and not bring up his failed campaign. If he asks why the new campaign, tell him that "There is some interest in a new campaign and we have not played in a while so we were unsure about where yours is going."

If he wants to DM again, let him try in a few months (be up front about an actual date. "How about the beginning of Nov?"). Make new characters and ask for restrictions up front. If he changes them later, then tell him that you feel uncomfortable with how he changes restrictions later and do not wish to play his campaign (might be good to talk to other players about this first so they will back you up).

Kurald Galain
2007-10-01, 10:12 AM
I'm with Crimson on this one. This campaign doesn't appear to be going anywhere, and frankly DM'ing is not everybody's cup of tea to begin with. You'd be best off playing some other campaign at least for a while.

de-trick
2007-10-01, 11:38 AM
If your background was not over the top saying about all the stuff you died and your level 1, or something cheesy, he should have not changed your background.

The campaign i have played a game that had no plot gets pretty boring quick unless the players have something in mind, we were also playing evil had my ogre hold a baby hostage, for some reason forget it though

valadil
2007-10-01, 12:49 PM
Honestly you're probably better off starting anew. I just don't see the game getting salvaged if you guys don't want to play and the DM says meh to it. Cut your losses and get back to a good game.

I wouldn't blacklist this guy from DMing though. He just needs to communicate with his players better. There's nothing wrong with telling a player his backstory doesn't fit or making suggestions. He just can't approve of things you do and then take them away without warning. That leads to disgruntled players.

valadil
2007-10-01, 12:57 PM
The campaign i have played a game that had no plot gets pretty boring quick unless the players have something in mind, we were also playing evil had my ogre hold a baby hostage, for some reason forget it though

There's a huge difference between no plot and no set plot. Nobody wants to play in a sandbox game for more than a couple sessions. On the other hand a game that doesn't have a predetermined plot can still find a plot as the game progresses. As a DM I really like making new plots. Any loose ends or pissed off NPCs left behind by the players can become plots with plenty of depth. In my experience, players like plots that they took part in. Every time I've given them some huge overarching plot while spawning plots based on their actions the players have leaned heavily towards the plots that spawned in their wake. The last game I ran didn't have an overarching plot. Just a number of short stories that took place simultaneously. As the game progressed the group took interested in some stories, so those were expanded into the main plot. It worked out great.

So yeah, plotless games can work out fine as long as they aren't entirely plotless. Obviously you need something to keep you going from one session to the next.