Curse of Strahd/Rise of Tiamat Help

[GuestEleven]

Hey guys. My group and I are new to 5e, we've been playing 3.5/PF for years and are finally making the switch. I am planning on starting a campaign myself using the pre-built adventures. I wanted to start with Curse of Strahd and then just link straight into Rise of Tiamat. Problem is I didn't know that Rise of Tiamat was prefaced by Hoard of the Dragon Queen.

I looked around and I hear a lot of bad things about Hoard of the Dragon Queen even though Rise of Tiamat has been appraised pretty high. I also thought that if I was stingy with exp just a little that I could lead Curse of Strahd right into the Rise of Tiamat because the levels seemed to barely line up.

I was hoping any of you that are familiar with the adventures could tell me what parts in Hoard of the Dragon Queen were crucial for the story that follows in Rise of Tiamat and what sections did your players thoroughly enjoy, player input entirely welcome as well. This way I can maybe I can trim Hoard way down and splice what ever is left onto Rise. If not then maybe I will run Curse of Strahd entirely seperate.

Thanks for any help!

[Madfellow]

I think this could work out just fine. Your players should be around level 9 or so by the end of CoS, which means they'll be a little over-leveled for the start of RoT, but that's not a big deal.

HotDQ is essentially an extended chase sequence; the PCs try to track down one Big Bad, going from one end of the Sword Coast to the other, and finally catching up with them by the end of the book.

RoT begins with parts of the Sword Coast being attacked by dragons and their followers, which causes the Harpers, Zhentarim, Lords' Alliance, Emerald Enclave, and Order of the Gauntlet to band together and seek out champions to combat the threat. That's how the PCs get involved.

Yeah, there aren't really any big hurdles here; you should be fine. Good luck!

[GuestEleven]

Yeah, there aren't really any big hurdles here; you should be fine. Good luck!

Excellent. Thank you. :]

[intregus]

Any reason you want to run either one(or both) of those adventures?

You can do whatever you want but I think doing horde of the dragon queen into rise of tiamat will be more fun then running strahd first.

That said, I think running death house into strahd and then doing something like tomb of annihilation would be better.

[Great Dragon]

Horde is mostly the PCs gaining levels by exploring and figuring out about the Cult of the Dragon.

IiRC - the most important part is the Meeting of the Good Dragons and the various Lords.


That said, I think running death house into strahd and then doing something like tomb of annihilation would be better.

This combo would be interesting.
Just remember that ToA is based a lot on wandering around the Jungle looking for the Lost City of Omu.

Jumping the Party in Omu (at about 9th lv) could work, and have them meet/rescue the Guide for translation of the Old Language would make sure that they have a chance of getting into the Tomb itself.

[GreyBlack]

Sooo.... I'm gonna take the opposite tack here.

I think you should play Hoard of the Dragon Queen.

Before everyone calls me out.... hear me out here. Hoard of the Dragon Queen has some great sequences in it; the first chapter is a fantastic romp through level 1, there's some fairly fun dungeons in there, and the magic items just tie into Rise of Tiamat well.

However: there is the prickly issue of the plot. I get that and wholeheartedly concur that the extended chase scene narrative is bulky and uninspired.

So, and hear me out here!.... don't run it.

Make changes to the plot to make it make more sense. I know that I did. When I ran it, the entire thing wasn't necessarily about getting back the gold, but rather to rescue slaves who had been taken and were being forcibly turned into the draconid horrors that the PC's have been fighting, so that Tiamat could have an army when she arrived. The mission of the second chapter was completely changed so that it was about rescuing the people who had been captured and bringing them back to the city. Hell, I completely cut the fourth chapter, dropping them off in Waterdeep and telling them to get going.

Soooooo... my advice is that Hoard is fun. You just have to be ready to make changes to it to make the plot make any semblance of sense.

[GuestEleven]

Sooo.... I'm gonna take the opposite tack here.

I think you should play Hoard of the Dragon Queen.

Soooooo... my advice is that Hoard is fun. You just have to be ready to make changes to it to make the plot make any semblance of sense.

I was actually considering that option. I might just ask my players what they want to do, either pick up after Curse or start whole new characters for Hoard.

My players don't actually know they're going to be playing Curse of Strahd, I just told them to create adventures in Faerûn in the Daggerford region. I think it'll be a pleasant surprise when they get sucked into the mists.

[GuestEleven]

Any reason you want to run either one(or both) of those adventures?

You can do whatever you want but I think doing horde of the dragon queen into rise of tiamat will be more fun then running strahd first.

That said, I think running death house into strahd and then doing something like tomb of annihilation would be better.

It is just kind of what I had planned. My group doesn't particularly enjoy short running campaigns and want to get the most out of their characters as possible. Ravenloft is one of my all time favorites, and I know that after levels 1-10 which the book calls for my players will want to continue forward with their characters, especially after returning to Faerûn. That's why I picked up Rise of Tiamat, because the levels just kind of worked out. I hadn't realized there was a primer for the path until after the fact.

I suppose I could build in extra content for the Curse of Strahd to make it stretch longer and then do a second campaign with just the Tiamat storyline. I've never heard of Death House, I'll look into it for sure.

[Great Dragon]

@GreyBlack
I did get both Horde and Rise, and want to run these as a Campaign.

However, I thought that the Dragon (even as a Wyrmling) was a bit of a TPK tending encounter for even five 1st level PCs.

I do have the Phandalin Mines that I was thinking of using to get them up to 3rd, and then do the Wyrmling Dragon attack.

Is this a better idea?

[DrKerosene]

I have no experience with either of the dragon modules, but I know that this subreddit has worked on fleshing out Curse Of Strahd to have more backstory about three goddesses that ruled the land before the fall/rise of Strahd, and the nature cults of werewolves, wereravens, and woodsy witches.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CurseofStrahd/comments/9bpzbh/curse_of_strahd_reloaded_compilation_thread/

[intregus]

It is just kind of what I had planned. My group doesn't particularly enjoy short running campaigns and want to get the most out of their characters as possible. Ravenloft is one of my all time favorites, and I know that after levels 1-10 which the book calls for my players will want to continue forward with their characters, especially after returning to Faerûn. That's why I picked up Rise of Tiamat, because the levels just kind of worked out. I hadn't realized there was a primer for the path until after the fact.

I suppose I could build in extra content for the Curse of Strahd to make it stretch longer and then do a second campaign with just the Tiamat storyline. I've never heard of Death House, I'll look into it for sure.

Death house is free online and its in the CoS book it takes players from levels 1-3.

When I do it I have people wake up after a normal night in the mists and then use a pack of wolves, dire wolves, werewolves, to chase them towards death house which is in the middle of nowhere and sets the tone for the rest of the campaign.

Then once they complete the house (they have to escape as part of the adventure) they aren't in the middle of nowhere anymore but in the town of Barovia.

[GreyBlack]

@GreyBlack
I did get both Horde and Rise, and want to run these as a Campaign.

However, I thought that the Dragon (even as a Wyrmling) was a bit of a TPK tending encounter for even five 1st level PCs.

I do have the Phandalin Mines that I was thinking of using to get them up to 3rd, and then do the Wyrmling Dragon attack.

Is this a better idea?

The way I ran it was to have the Dragon be flying over the keep throwing its breath weapon around at the various sides of the keep. On the keep itself, there's a ballista that the PC's have to work together to get working; I made it sort of a skill challenge from 4e. People could make skill checks to get it working. (i.e. 1 person could make a perception check to get the angle right, one could make an athletics check to move the ballista into position, etc.) If they made 3 skill check failures, the dragon would fly off but almost all of the defenders were dead. It got the PC's working together to figure out the problem in a way that didn't involve combat.

I also moved the encounter to be the second to last encounter, before the half dragon made his challenge, because I thought it made more narrative sense for the dragon to make its final attack at the end. I thought it was pretty successful, although one of the players was kinda upset at me for changing the encounter. (He wanted me to make the encounter the same as it should be run in Adventurer's League so that this could be run as an Adventurer's league game, which... let's just say that I have issues with that.)

EDIT: Matt Colville actually has a better description of it that I think you can use to your advantage here.

https://youtu.be/GvOeqDpkBm8

[Madfellow]

My players don't actually know they're going to be playing Curse of Strahd, I just told them to create adventures in Faerûn in the Daggerford region. I think it'll be a pleasant surprise when they get sucked into the mists.

I love this so much. :smallbiggrin:

[Great Dragon]

@GreyBlack
That's a good plan, thanks.

[GreyBlack]

@GreyBlack
That's a good plan, thanks.

No problem!

Another recommendation I have is the Sally port encounter in the first chapter. In that section, instead of them having to repair the door, I had them in the keep itself trying to do some rest; some of them went to tend to the wounded, some of them went to check on the refugees, some went to the war room, etc.

Then, I had some kobolds and mercenaries get into the actual keep past the guards set up top, threatening the refugees (only 5-6 of them got in). So, here's all the PC's split up in different parts of the keep trying to defend the residents and inhabitants, all while the party was split. We even got some great roleplaying encounters out of that encounter.

[OmSwaOperations]

Highly recommend playing the Curse of Strahd over Horde of the Dragon Queen as an introduction. I can't comment personally on how good the latter is, but I know I absolutely adored the former. The plot elements are just fantastic: were-raven cabals conspiring against Vampires, temples to imprisoned deities of unspeakable evil, disused windmills where hags grind children into pies, mutant humans tended by a fallen angel, etc.