Which sub classes need tweeks

[Whit]

My suggestion is Eldritch Knight.
It falls behind once you reach 5th. Either spell or 2 attacks.
At 7 war magic let’s you cast one cantrip and one melee attack.
No matter what your melee does way more.
At 10 it gets better. Melee 2 attacks. Next turn cast a saving throw spell lighting bolt for disadvantaged saves. Very nice.

At 15 you can short distance jump 30. Nice moves when you action surge

At 18 cast a spell and get 1 attack. But lose your nornal 3 attacks. Not that great.
5-9 needs rework and when you get 3 attacks it becomes somewhat bad again

[bid]

At 7 war magic let’s you cast one cantrip and one melee attack.
No matter what your melee does way more.
Doesn't BB/GFB come up ahead?

[claypigeons]

Doesn't BB/GFB come up ahead?

Yes, 7-11 Eldritch Knight is fantastic damage.

[CTurbo]

Believe it or not, hitting something with your weapon is not always going to be the best option. The EK has a HUGE advantage over other Fighter subclasses because it has so many new options. And when you need to hit something with your weapon, the EK is still a Fighter and is great at fightering.

[Kane0]

EK is solid, if you want a lacklustre fighter archetype take a look at Arcane Archer

[jaappleton]

Land Druid.

Aside from Natural Recovery, the only noteworthy features are 'more spells'. The features are just so underwhelming.

[MrStabby]

Land Druid.

Aside from Natural Recovery, the only noteworthy features are 'more spells'. The features are just so underwhelming.

Yeah, second land druid.

Four elements monk could use some love. Your abilities do damage or are single target control - they don't really add any new functionality and the damaging spells are held back till they are no longer exciting.

Necromancer and Divination wizard could use a bit of a fix. Portent and a strong army of undead can undermine the fun of other players at the table.

Warlock - hexblade. This is pretty much the only good way to play a melee Warlock. I feel it does diminish blade pact for other patrons.

Chaos sorcerer. Too random and too DM dependant.

Redemption paladin. No one really wants to play one. It has some good spells... but waiting to get to level 17 to get wall of force to feel special isn't great.

[Arkhios]

btw, it's tweak.

Unless you really meant which sub classes need tweek a side effect of extreme over indulgence in crystal meth or crack cocaine.

[jaappleton]

Oath of the Crown.

Honestly just throw the whole subclass into the trash.

[Aett_Thorn]

Oath of the Crown.

Honestly just throw the whole subclass into the trash.

Purple Dragon Knight, too. Jeez they didn’t really think that subclass through.

[jaappleton]

Purple Dragon Knight, too. Jeez they didn’t really think that subclass through.

Actually, most everything in SCAG wasn't thought through. That's one book they farmed out, I think it was Kobold Press that did most of the work?

Undying is just... eh.
Sun Soul is OK, but its also not original, that subclass was around before in previous editions. Wish the lv11 blast did half damage on a miss.
Long Death is good.
Crown Paladins are trash.
Purple Dragon Knight is garbage.
Arcana Domain is... Love the capstone, love the bonus cantrips, hate the bonus spell list. Spell Breaker can be good.
Bladesinger is cool, but like Sun Soul, that was a port from earlier editions. Hard to give full credit for that.
Swashbuckler is good, but we saw that one in UA. So that leads me to believe that was handled internally by WOTC.

Races were alright. Love Ghostwise Halfling.

[CTurbo]

I'm glad somebody mentioned Diviner Wizard. Portent is possibly the strongest single feature in the entire game, but everything else the subclass has to offer is very underwhelming IMO. Greater Portent is awesome of course, but I don't like that they took an already OP feature and just made more of it. It's very lazy and very Fighterish. I wish it would have gotten an entirely unique feature at lvl 14.

Speaking of possibly the strongest feature in the entire game, the Long Death Monk's lvl 11 Mastery of Death should be looked at. A lvl 11 Long Death Monk with 1 ki could survive a nuclear blast to the face lol.

[jaappleton]

I'm glad somebody mentioned Diviner Wizard. Portent is possibly the strongest single feature in the entire game, but everything else the subclass has to offer is very underwhelming IMO. Greater Portent is awesome of course, but I don't like that they took an already OP feature and just made more of it. It's very lazy and very Fighterish. I wish it would have gotten an entirely unique feature at lvl 14.

Speaking of possibly the strongest feature in the entire game, the Long Death Monk's lvl 11 Mastery of Death should be looked at. A lvl 11 Long Death Monk with 1 ki could survive a nuclear blast to the face lol.

Make it a Half Orc Monk so they get one more use of it per day. :smallbiggrin:

[CTurbo]

Make it a Half Orc Monk so they get one more use of it per day. :smallbiggrin:


The Half-Orc's Relentless Endurance specifically states "When you are reduced to 0 Hit Points but not killed outright, you can drop to 1 hit point instead." so it wouldn't work.

Long Death's Mastery of Death feature does not have the "...but not killed outright" part which is the problem. You could take 1000d12 damage and just say nah I'll use a ki to have 1hp instead lol.

[Talionis]

Arcane Trickster. Not because it’s bad but because Spellthief should be more powerful to capture the feel of 3.5 spellthief.

[kenGarff]

I wish transmutation and conjuration wizards can be tweaked, specifically buffed. They are weak in earlier levels and are supposedly weak even in high level.

[mephnick]

Oath of the Crown.

Honestly just throw the whole subclass into the trash.

It's..one of the better Paladin subs? Decent features and a good spell list. What more do you want?

It's absolutely not on par with the other crap in that book.

[stoutstien]

I think long death is best monk sub class for style points alone. The only change and this is just to turn it from a good subclass to match open hand is If the touch of death feature didn't require the monk to make the final blow but was limited to once per round. Make it more convenient and constant. may reduce it to Wis+ 1/2 monk lv.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Undying Warlock Patron needs some help; it's the weakest by a long ways.

Hexblade needs to be smacked down hard with a +3 nerf bat.

[Arkhios]

I'd like that Nature's Wrath (Channel Divinity of Sacred Oath of the Ancients) was tweaked from crap to at least 'alright'.

[Kane0]

Actually, most everything in SCAG wasn't thought through. That's one book they farmed out, I think it was Kobold Press that did most of the work?
Well, I guess thats my next homebrew pet project then

[MrStabby]

Now thinking that the paladins that need a tweak are the Vengeance, Ancients and Conquest... the rest are pretty balanced whereas these are on the strong side.

[Dienekes]

Berserker seems obvious. Needs a way to mitigate fatigue or something.

[Naanomi]

Wild Sorcerer (but only to remove the requirement for DM fiat to access abilities; and adjust them accordingly)

Elemental Monk (either reduce cost on a few of the abilities or, my preference, throw in a few ‘no cost’ abilities on top of what we got to defuse the Ki costs)

Beastmaster Ranger (something to prevent your whole class from being removable; a simple resurrection of your pet ability would go a long way)

Conceptually sound but need fundamental reevaluations of core mechanics rather than simple tweaks:

Undying Patron Warlock
Battlerager Barbarian
Purple Dragon Knight

[mephnick]

What's the problem with Battlerager? It's just as good as most of the subclasses. Much better than the Storm Herald.

[Naanomi]

What's the problem with Battlerager? It's just as good as most of the subclasses. Much better than the Storm Herald.
*Almost everything tied to bonus action, as is raging to access it in the first place
*Requires you to wear crappy armor for most abilities, of which you are unlikely to find magic (either as armor or weapon) in many campaigns... made worse by requiring a race that will likely have the CON for good Unarmored AC
*Payoffs are either super marginal; or easily replicated with Polearm Mastery
*Small-bits or temp HP is better done by Storm Herald, and in either case often competes with party member abilities to grant it in larger quantities

[mephnick]

- Unarmoured AC is a trap option unless you roll god stats and AC in general is fairly unimportant for a class that should be Reckless Attacking often. Barbarian survives due to DMG reduction, not AC. The 1 less AC is barely relevant. The Spiked Armour is fine.

- The BA problem is shared by almost every subclass, especially Storm Herald.

- PAM is a huge investment for a Barbarian and adds a seperate BA problem to other subclasses. The add-on attack with Rage damage is a good one.

-Storm Herald THP is pathetic and any kind of healing like that is done better by many other classes so I don't see how that's relevant.

[Naanomi]

-a Dwarf Barbarian with standard array or point buy will likely have 15 Unarmored AC at level 1; without interfering with Stealth; and 17-19 at level 20. Wearing non-spiked armor will be 1-2 points higher than spiked armor, also potentially without interfering with Stealth. The spikes likely being non-magical will matter more at higher levels.

-storm herald abilities activate for free the turn they rage; cutting the action cost down a lot... and don’t grant other abilities that demand your bonus action

-storm herald THP is better than Battlerager THP even just for yourself; and hits more than one party member