[Question] Thoughts on Conjuration wizard?

[fishpoop]

From a mechanical prospective, what are your thoughts on the conjuration wizard?
I'm thinking about doing a Lv15 Conjurer to replace my deceased PC.
But from a mechanical standpoint, it doesn't look that good at higher level, relative to other schools.
Here are my questions below and thanks for the help.

1. How is conjuration wizard Lv10+?
2. How is Focused Conjuration?

[Nemenia]

Frankly, it's pretty garbage. If you want to play a summoner, you're better off with Abjuration or War Wizard. Focused Conjuration is great, and is the sole reason to take this subclass, but Abjure and War can handle what it does almost as well and actually have useful abilities to go along with it. The subclass itself is disappointingly bad and barely benefits most summoning spells in any way besides the concentration, which you could also handle with a feat. Overall, just don't take it.

[SVamp]

In a game without feats (or without feats n multiclassing) it’s super good to be able to count on your feeble concentration not breaking. In a game with 1 lvl of fighter and or war caster and or resilient: con ? Not so much.

Still the 30 extra hps on summons aren’t garbage, but most tables frown on you having lots of summons which might make this worthwhile, so often times you’ll never benefit from it (it’s useless on one big summon but pretty useful on many smaller ones)

I’d probably run an illusionist at this lvl, but an evoker , enchanter or war mage should be pretty fun if you’re not into illusions.

[Chronos]

Why does everyone always talk about this mythical "Summoner" wizard subclass, every time anyone asks about the Conjurer? There is no Summoner subclass. Any wizard can summon equally well. The Conjurer subclass is about conjuring.

[loki_ragnarock]

Why does everyone always talk about this mythical "Summoner" wizard subclass, every time anyone asks about the Conjurer? There is no Summoner subclass. Any wizard can summon equally well. The Conjurer subclass is about conjuring.

Agreed. Being able to switch places with people as an action is hella fun. Being able to escape pretty much any grapple with an action also isn't anything to sneeze at.

I'd almost want to see more teleportation themed powers out of them, personally.

The high level ability does tilt a little Summoner-y, but that's one ability out of several.

[hwem]

I had similar questions before since the ability to teleport and not having broken concentration during conjuration spells sounded amazing since it meant I didn't have to take res-con and/or war caster. But that didn't seem to be the case from hearing out others' thoughts on it. Unfortunate >.<

[Chronos]

Well, that depends on what you're typically concentrating on. If, for instance, Evard's Black Tentacles is your absolute favorite spell ever and you're usually using it every combat, then having unbreakable concentration on it is pretty good. If, on the other hand, you're usually using Haste, then that ability is useless.

[hwem]

What are some top tier high level spells that can benefit from conjuration? There’s have to be many or really really good ones for focused conjuration to be good. I did think it sounded amazing but in my own thread not too long ago people were essentially saying “res con/war caster and conjuration spells being meh at high level so focused conjuration is meh”. I’d love to be wrong though since co juration really does sound cool. To be able to teleport around and conjure sounds crazy!

[Sigreid]

Why does everyone always talk about this mythical "Summoner" wizard subclass, every time anyone asks about the Conjurer? There is no Summoner subclass. Any wizard can summon equally well. The Conjurer subclass is about conjuring.

I think that would be because a number of people, myself included, find the idea of a pet class wizard appealing.

[Dalebert]

Losing concentration from dmg has been a constant fear of mine for any spellcaster but after playing lots of casters I find it to not be a real common thing. A tactical party often prevents it from happening very often. Yes, an intelligent enemy may specifically target you to break concentration but you still need to be both accessible and also a bigger threat to them than everyone else in the party at the moment when they can act.

I love minions but necromancers are just so much beter if that's your goal. I realize there are role-playing barriers depending on your DM and party as they're largely seen as evil. Makes me wish they made conjurers just a little more competitive in that dept.


... or war mage should be pretty fun if you’re not into illusions.

War Mage is pretty front-loaded with a nice lvl 2 ability but otherwise awful. Justifiable for a brief dip maybe.

[MaxWilson]

Why does everyone always talk about this mythical "Summoner" wizard subclass, every time anyone asks about the Conjurer? There is no Summoner subclass. Any wizard can summon equally well. The Conjurer subclass is about conjuring.

Actually, the Enchanter subclass is about conjuring.

Conjure: (ARCHAIC) implore (someone) to do something.

Seriously, I have no idea what kind of distinction you're trying to draw here between summoning and conjuring.


Losing concentration from dmg has been a constant fear of mine for any spellcaster but after playing lots of casters I find it to not be a real common thing. A tactical party often prevents it from happening very often. Yes, an intelligent enemy may specifically target you to break concentration but you still need to be both accessible and also a bigger threat to them than everyone else in the party at the moment when they can act.

In my experience the best way to not lose concentration from damage is AC 20+ and the Shield spell. Proficiency on concentration saves is good, but not having to make a concentration save at all is better.


I love minions but necromancers are just so much beter if that's your goal. I realize there are role-playing barriers depending on your DM and party as they're largely seen as evil. Makes me wish they made conjurers just a little more competitive in that dept.

Tiny Servant isn't half-bad either, especially if you've got a Shepherd Druid in the party. They don't do much damage but they can soak attacks and Help PCs attack.

[sithlordnergal]

Why does everyone always talk about this mythical "Summoner" wizard subclass, every time anyone asks about the Conjurer? There is no Summoner subclass. Any wizard can summon equally well. The Conjurer subclass is about conjuring.

Mostly because when someone says "conjure", they equate it to summoning something. Which I can see why, even the dictionary definition says that to conjure something is to call upon a spirit or ghost to appear.

And while there a ton of spells that don't summon things in the conjuration school, the ones that stand out are things like Find Familiar, Find Steed, Dust Devil, Conjure Animals, ect.. Stuff that would lead you to believe Conjuration was the summoning school of magic that dealt in summoning things.

Though looking over the spell list, its a bit odd what's considered a conjuration spell. Why are spells like Ice Knife, Sleet Storm, and Steel Wind Strike Conjuration, while something like Darkness...isn't? Darkness is Evocation? Shouldn't Ice Knife be Evocation? And Wish is Conjuration too? I can kinda get it...but still? Its like they threw random spells into the conjuration school.

[sithlordnergal]

I love minions but necromancers are just so much beter if that's your goal. I realize there are role-playing barriers depending on your DM and party as they're largely seen as evil. Makes me wish they made conjurers just a little more competitive in that dept.

There are two ways to be a minionmancer in 5e, Necromancr Subclass, or Shepard Druid. And sadly, since Shepard Druid gets some of the best summoning spells in the game, with the debatable exception of Summon Greater Demon, their summons deal magical damage, their summons get 2hp per hit die, and they have a large AoE heal buff, I'd say the Druid is better then the necromancer.

[JackPhoenix]

Mostly because when someone says "conjure", they equate it to summoning something. Which I can see why, even the dictionary definition says that to conjure something is to call upon a spirit or ghost to appear.

And while there a ton of spells that don't summon things in the conjuration school, the ones that stand out are things like Find Familiar, Find Steed, Dust Devil, Conjure Animals, ect.. Stuff that would lead you to believe Conjuration was the summoning school of magic that dealt in summoning things.

Though looking over the spell list, its a bit odd what's considered a conjuration spell. Why are spells like Ice Knife, Sleet Storm, and Steel Wind Strike Conjuration, while something like Darkness...isn't? Darkness is Evocation? Shouldn't Ice Knife be Evocation? And Wish is Conjuration too? I can kinda get it...but still? Its like they threw random spells into the conjuration school.

Dust Devil doesn't summon anything, it's weird it falls under conjuration at all. Ice Knife and Sleet Storm both create physical objects (but then, so does Wall of Stone, which is evocation, so whatever), Steel Wind Strike involves teleportation, which falls under conjuration since about forever, Darkness doesn't create any object or teleport anything, it manipulates energy (D&D optics is weird), which falls squarely under evocation (or even better, illusion, given the effect). If anything, Conjuration is propably better then any other schools about what spells fall under it (with very few exceptions like Produce Flame or aforementioned Dust Devil). In comparison, evocation has a lot of spells that should be conjuration (non-force or fire walls, anything involving acid).

[MaxWilson]

There are two ways to be a minionmancer in 5e, Necromancr Subclass, or Shepard Druid. And sadly, since Shepard Druid gets some of the best summoning spells in the game, with the debatable exception of Summon Greater Demon, their summons deal magical damage, their summons get 2hp per hit die, and they have a large AoE heal buff, I'd say the Druid is better then the necromancer.

...unless the necromancer uses Xanathar's rules to forge a bunch of magical Longbows +1 for all of his skeletons (Xanathar's says it's 2 weeks and 200 gp per longbow, once you've got the formula and ingredients), in which case ranged magical attacks with no concentration requirement >>> melee magical attacks with concentration requirement.

The Necromancer also potentially gets a Vampire Spawn/Nightwalker/Mummy Lord/(or similar) slave, again with no concentration requirement.

It's not easy to say whether shepherd druid or necromancer is a better minionmancer, but it is clear that

(1) they are both excellent, and

(2) they are even better working together, so e.g. the necromancer can Planar Bind Giant Apes that the shepherd druid conjured with Conjure Fey VII.

[sithlordnergal]

...unless the necromancer uses Xanathar's rules to forge a bunch of magical Longbows +1 for all of his skeletons (Xanathar's says it's 2 weeks and 200 gp per longbow, once you've got the formula and ingredients), in which case ranged magical attacks with no concentration requirement >>> melee magical attacks with concentration requirement.

The Necromancer also potentially gets a Vampire Spawn/Nightwalker/Mummy Lord/(or similar) slave, again with no concentration requirement.

It's not easy to say whether shepherd druid or necromancer is a better minionmancer, but it is clear that

(1) they are both excellent, and

(2) they are even better working together, so e.g. the necromancer can Planar Bind Giant Apes that the shepherd druid conjured with Conjure Fey VII.

Well, main issue with arming an army is that if you want to arm 8 skeletons with magic longbows you need 16 weeks and 1,600 gold. Same if you want to arm 16 skeletons, you need 32 weeks and 3,200 gold to make them, and if I remember correctly there is a chance that you fail to make the longbow...which means wasted time and gold. And if you're stuck playing Adventure's League, its essentially a non-option.

Plus magical weapons can be lost...As for the Vampire Spawn, I hadn't heard about that? =o Where and how?

EDIT: Ohhhh, Command Undead at 14th level! Ehhh, I wouldn't fully trust that feature since it isn't guaranteed to work. Still, a good feature none the less.

[killem2]

Why does everyone always talk about this mythical "Summoner" wizard subclass, every time anyone asks about the Conjurer? There is no Summoner subclass. Any wizard can summon equally well. The Conjurer subclass is about conjuring.

It's because from 3.5 and PathX, we were given the tools to harness nearly unlimited versatility in summoning. And now it's garbage. But it's what we remember. /shrug

[hwem]

It’s unfortunate conjuration and transmutation are often considered the two of the worst schools from start to the end level :(

Oh well. Wizard is still strong TC!