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View Full Version : What (low level) monsters to challenge players?



StevenC21
2019-03-30, 02:41 AM
My players are only level 2. Despite this, they have an uncanny ability to absolutely curbstomp every encounter I've thrown at them. I always expect them to win, but not this easily! An example.

This Thursday the players, all five, had to defend a small fortress from invasion. We had a Wizard, a Psion, a Rogue, a Fighter, and a Barbarian. The Wizard was mostly preoccupied with some kobolds scaling the tower he was shooting from, but I sent no less than 5 bugbears at the others and they took them down effortlessly. I was playing them rather intelligently, too. The issue seemed to be that the Barbarian played extremely recklessly... But it paid off.

More experienced DMs, what should I do about this? They're nearly level 3, if it matters.

zlefin
2019-03-30, 06:33 AM
how good were the defenses on the fortress? a good defensive structure can tilt a battle considerably and change the CR of an encounter.

how optimized are the players' builds?
are you using the monsters' stock builds from the books or are you tweaking them?
how vicious are the monsters playing?

Thunder999
2019-03-30, 07:11 AM
Set some incorporeal undead on them, I doubt anyone in that party will handle those easily. Shadows and Allips are both appropriate CR.

Eldariel
2019-03-30, 07:25 AM
Use some leveled creatures and swap monster feats if it seems appropriate. Stock Bugbears are pretty lousy but Bugbear Barbarian 1s are suddenly considerably more fearsome (Elite Array stats, extra HD, rage, bonus stat point from 4th HD, etc.) and doubly so if you give them useful feats (say: Brutal Throw so they have some ranged threat and then like Power Attack). Let alone like Bugbear Sorcerer with Practiced Spellcaster (that's TPK material with damage spells).

You can also vary them more: some archers, some chargers, some grapplers, some trippers, etc. But yeah, much of the problem is that stock Bugbears are pretty pathetic for CR2: a 1st level Barbarian has a more-than-50/50 shot in a 1v1 with one and a Wizard 1 absolutely curbstomps them most of the time. In short, Bugbears are more like CR1 or CR1.5 than CR2 (in spite of their HD, their HP is about equal to Barbarian 1, AC likewise though perhaps a big higher than a rager's, and their hit and damage is vastly lower typically). And yeah, defensive fortifications sway the numbers a lot if used properly.

Elricaltovilla
2019-03-30, 07:33 AM
Low level combat is swingy. Barbarians especially are able to easily remove an enemy a turn thanks to rage and big weapons. Low level monsters just don't have the hit points to survive more than one heavy hit like that.

GrayDeath
2019-03-30, 07:42 AM
Well, the only monsters challenging the PLAYERS are the ones they have to think about (unless you managed to send your players into the Game world, or heavens help, somehow got your monsters out of it ^^) Sorry, cant help it.


If you mean Characters, as the poster above said, low Level combat is extremely deadly and swingy.
How good are their rolls on average?
How well optimizedf their builds?
How well did you roll on average?

I personally would not worry about them being really good at early levels. If this persists when they reach say Level 5 to 6 (and your Monsters are appropiately built), then you might have to up the Game.

Selion
2019-03-30, 08:44 AM
If they are defending a little fortress they have a clear advantage and you should get creative and increase slightly the CR of the encounter. How many entrances have the fortress?
Has it been completely explored or maybe is it possible to access it from a hidden passage, climbing a cliff, or from the roof? What kind of enemies do they face? Try to give your players something unexpected and they will be amused even if the fight is easy.
Example
A character spots a black shadow in the sky. After a while they hear a noise from the roof: a gargoyle (with a fighter level, a pole-arm and improved disarm, if needed, just to make your barbarian happy :P) is trying to find a way from above. While the players decide what to do about him, kobolds are climbing the wall and another noise, now from below, is heard: a bulette (CR is too high, give him some kind of a debuff to decrease drammatically his stats, like a young bulette, a blind bulette, a chained bulette, whatever) is digging the ground under the fortress, in fact he may make a wall collapse and open the way for the troops outside, or more straightforwardly enter the fortress from the courtyard followed by his kobold trainers, which use torches to scare him and make him fight.
If the CRs are too high for your players stats, you can divide the fights, but represent them as simultaneous: for example while they are fighting the gargoyle a kobold (a common kobold, like CR 1/2) enters from a window, giving your players the idea they will be ambushed soon (but there will be a few rounds in between the two fights), or you can make them spot the bulette from distance beginning to dig under the fortress, so they'll fell the incoming danger while they are fighting the garg, but without having to face them at the some time.
So the fight would be divided in three phases:
Garg: CR5 (in 5 rounds climbers enter the fight)
Climbers: CR3 (in 5 rounds the bulette enters the fortress)
Depowered bulette: CR 4-6 (you can even cheat on your players for their sake, using a weak bulette if they have already been depleted in resources and a strong bulette if they faced the other perils without a sweat)

Edit: in the gargoyle fight and in the bulette one add some kobold critters (a couple of kobolds may have been transported by the gargoyle), D&D doesn't work so well in a party vs one fight.

Eldariel
2019-03-30, 09:18 AM
If they are defending a little fortress they have a clear advantage and you should get creative and increase slightly the CR of the encounter. How many entrances have the fortress?
Has it been completely explored or maybe is it possible to access it from a hidden passage, climbing a cliff, or from the roof? What kind of enemies do they face? Try to give your players something unexpected and they will be amused even if the fight is easy.
Example
A character spots a black shadow in the sky. After a while they hear a noise from the roof: a gargoyle (with a fighter level, a pole-arm and improved disarm, if needed, just to make your barbarian happy :P) is trying to find a way from above. While the players decide what to do about him, kobolds are climbing the wall and another noise, now from below, is heard: a bulette (CR is too high, give him some kind of a debuff to decrease drammatically his stats, like a young bulette, a blind bulette, a chained bulette, whatever) is digging the ground under the fortress, in fact he may make a wall collapse and open the way for the troops outside, or more straightforwardly enter the fortress from the courtyard followed by his kobold trainers, which use torches to scare him and make him fight.
If the CRs are too high for your players stats, you can divide the fights, but represent them as simultaneous: for example while they are fighting the gargoyle a kobold (a common kobold, like CR 1/2) enters from a window, giving your players the idea they will be ambushed soon (but there will be a few rounds in between the two fights), or you can make them spot the bulette from distance beginning to dig under the fortress, so they'll fell the incoming danger while they are fighting the garg, but without having to face them at the some time.
So the fight would be divided in three phases:
Garg: CR5 (in 5 rounds climbers enter the fight)
Climbers: CR3 (in 5 rounds the bulette enters the fortress)
Depowered bulette: CR 4-6 (you can even cheat on your players for their sake, using a weak bulette if they have already been depleted in resources and a strong bulette if they faced the other perils without a sweat)

Edit: in the gargoyle fight and in the bulette one add some kobold critters (a couple of kobolds may have been transported by the gargoyle), D&D doesn't work so well in a party vs one fight.

Instead of a bulette, you could use e.g. CR 2 Thoqquas (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/thoqqua.htm) to much the same effect. Not that out of the realm of possibility for Bugbears to have befriended, tamed or enslaved some; they're useful, not very powerful and not very bright. Bugbears on the other hand are of average humanoid intellect and thus potentially very clever, cruel and dangerous.

StevenC21
2019-03-30, 01:01 PM
While unoptimized, they have rolled relatively well so far. Except the Wizard. 2 damage Magic Missile seems standard for him...