Selion
2019-03-30, 07:24 AM
From what i read there are two different kinds of maneuvers:
- maneuvers done without weapons
- maneuvers done with weapons (namely trip, sunder, disarm)
The former is straightforward (or at least it seems so, as we'll see in the following), you make a maneuver roll as a standard action and confront your d20 + CMB to the enemy CMD.
The latter can be done in place of a single attack roll during a full attack and applies bonuses of the attack roll to the maneuver roll. It means that i can do several trip maneuvers during a full attack and use maneuvers even with a attack of opportunity. In a common situation you just use your weapon attack roll to overcome CMD instead of AC (eg you apply the malus for subsequent attacks and so on).
Things get weird in both cases:
question 1) some natural attacks may trigger a combat maneuver check (like the trip ability of a wolf), which IMHO should be done with CMB and not with the attack bonus, so a wolf power attacking with magic fangs wouldn't use his enhanced bonus to natural attacks and his malus due to power attack in the maneuver check. Is this correct?
question 2) if i have weapon finesse i use my dexterity bonus in melee attacks, so it should apply even to maneuvers, but what happens if i have "agile maneuvers" without weapon finesse? Should i recalculate my attack bonus with all bonuses and malus of a weapon attack, but use dexterity instead of strength (just like i had weapon finesse limited to maneuver checks)?
I'm baffled that after so many editions of d&d/pathfinder maneuvers still look like a mess (improvements have been made of course). There are official FAQs about that?
- maneuvers done without weapons
- maneuvers done with weapons (namely trip, sunder, disarm)
The former is straightforward (or at least it seems so, as we'll see in the following), you make a maneuver roll as a standard action and confront your d20 + CMB to the enemy CMD.
The latter can be done in place of a single attack roll during a full attack and applies bonuses of the attack roll to the maneuver roll. It means that i can do several trip maneuvers during a full attack and use maneuvers even with a attack of opportunity. In a common situation you just use your weapon attack roll to overcome CMD instead of AC (eg you apply the malus for subsequent attacks and so on).
Things get weird in both cases:
question 1) some natural attacks may trigger a combat maneuver check (like the trip ability of a wolf), which IMHO should be done with CMB and not with the attack bonus, so a wolf power attacking with magic fangs wouldn't use his enhanced bonus to natural attacks and his malus due to power attack in the maneuver check. Is this correct?
question 2) if i have weapon finesse i use my dexterity bonus in melee attacks, so it should apply even to maneuvers, but what happens if i have "agile maneuvers" without weapon finesse? Should i recalculate my attack bonus with all bonuses and malus of a weapon attack, but use dexterity instead of strength (just like i had weapon finesse limited to maneuver checks)?
I'm baffled that after so many editions of d&d/pathfinder maneuvers still look like a mess (improvements have been made of course). There are official FAQs about that?