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Braininthejar2
2019-03-30, 11:47 AM
I'm going to DM some detective stories soon, but my experience in detective stories is limited to modern settings.

So, what kinds of clues do medieval setting stories use?

Let's say there is an attempt on a character's life. He tries to find out who ordered the hit.

In a modern setting there would likely be some papers on the corpse of would-be assassin, or a security camera could provide the licence plate of the car the bad guys used.

But in fantasy? what is the equivalent? What clues can there be beyond divination and/or living witnesses?

hymer
2019-03-30, 01:28 PM
In fantasy, living witnesses can include birds and plants, of course.

Where did the guy come from? How did he get access? Did anyone see him? Where did he last sleep? How did he pay? Who knew him? What can you tell me about this unusual type of coins in his hidden stash? How do you make the type of poison, the weapon, his clothes? Who could have made them? Sold them to him? Did he steal them? Did he have an accomplice in that break-in? Did he have an accomplice in the attempted murder? Can that person be tracked and questioned? Can you follow his tracks using a scent dog? Did he have transportation? A horse? Where did he get that? Did anyone notice if he had an accent?

Cygnia
2019-03-30, 01:35 PM
One of my favorite inspirations for this sort of game would be the Brother Cadfael (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cadfael_Chronicles)novels, set in 12th Cent. England.

Themrys
2019-03-30, 01:47 PM
Ordinary people didn't travel much in the Middle Ages, so if the assassin is from someplace else, he's almost guaranteed to have an accent.

I don't know if hiring a stranger to do the dirty work was a thing people did in the Middle Ages. A noble would probably just send on of his men to do it. He would likely try to make sure the assassin didn't have his coat of arms on him, but once you find someone who knew the assassin and wasn't threatened into keeping the secret, it would be pretty easy to find out.

On the other hand, while most people would be known by several other people, you can't just show around a photo. Easiest way to solve this is probably to give the would-be assassin some very unusual trait, birthmark, whatever. (That the PCs have to look for to find it)


And of course, one thing that's always applicable: Who would have profited from the death of this character? Whom has he wronged in the past? Whose vanity did he hurt?

Brother Oni
2019-03-30, 01:50 PM
Since travel is much more limited in medieval times, ask if any of the witness remember him speaking with an accent, or had any customs or quirks that would tie him to a culture/religion/faction.

Note that this has to be carefully done as a truly clever opponent could leave deliberately clues to set it up as a false flag operation to point the blame at another faction.

Edit: Ninja'ed!

GloatingSwine
2019-03-30, 02:07 PM
Well any fantasy world worth its salt will have up to several guilds of assassins and well known groups of thugs for hire. So who the mysterious benefactor was able and willing to pay to do the job is one clue.

Braininthejar2
2019-03-30, 02:41 PM
Where did the guy come from? How did he get access? Did anyone see him? Where did he last sleep? How did he pay? Who knew him? What can you tell me about this unusual type of coins in his hidden stash? How do you make the type of poison, the weapon, his clothes? Who could have made them? Sold them to him? Did he steal them? Did he have an accomplice in that break-in? Did he have an accomplice in the attempted murder? Can that person be tracked and questioned? Can you follow his tracks using a scent dog? Did he have transportation? A horse? Where did he get that? Did anyone notice if he had an accent?

The target is a local healer, who accidentally thwarted an evil cult's biological weapon test.
She's kind of a minor celebrity for her skills, so they know killing her will step on some toes, and they don't want to show their hand yet.

So they hire some thugs from outside the city (the city is on a crossroads of caravan trails - it sees plenty foreigners. These two were caravan guards fired for drinking on the job and stranded in town. That makes them completely disposible, but also not very competent.)


One of my favorite inspirations for this sort of game would be the Brother Cadfael novels, set in 12th Cent. England.

I only watched the tv series, but remember it fondly.

Brother Oni
2019-03-30, 03:54 PM
So they hire some thugs from outside the city (the city is on a crossroads of caravan trails - it sees plenty foreigners. These two were caravan guards fired for drinking on the job and stranded in town. That makes them completely disposible, but also not very competent.)

As a rule of thumb, if you want to make it a proper investigation for PCs, drop three major hints or hooks for them to follow - you may think it's blindingly obvious, but you have the benefit of hindsight and the last thing you want the players to get frustrated at the lack of information.

If they're cheap thugs, then they'd likely be using their own equipment, so:


Have something unique about their gear that the PCs can follow (say their equipment has a stamp of a local armourer/blacksmith)
One or both of them have unique facial features or are an uncommon race/ethnic group, to inspire the PCs to draw up sketches of them
The money in their purses are nearly all of one country's denomination - this is very unusual for a major caravan city, which implies they've come into town recently


All three clues should point the PCs towards the caravan markets (eg. the blacksmith says that most of his sales are to out of towners as his shop is the closest to the markets; the place with the most cosmopolitan array of people would be the markets; the PCs hear about a large caravan that's come in from that country recently).

Now that they're asking around the markets about the two dead guards:


A witness say he recognises them as caravan guards on the convoy they rode into town in and then points them at caravan master. If you wanted to add a complication, the caravan master's left town yesterday with a new group of travellers and the PCs have to track which way he went and catch up to them.
The caravan master says he fired them for drinking on the job and haven't seen them since their last convoy, but remembers they used to frequent this particular tavern.
If the PCs can't find the caravan owner, another witness mentions they look rather shifty and all the shifty caravaners like to drink at taverns in a particular part of town.
As a last resort, have a witness identify one of the guards as a old friend/acquaintance and they last saw them at this tavern.


By hook or by crook, the PCs end up at the right tavern then they have to sweet talk the tavern owner or one of the barmaids into providing the information - if their social skills aren't up to scratch, the PCs can give them a hand with a particularly rowdy bunch of patrons, or the PCs can simply pay them.

The staff remember the two guards talking to this particularly shifty looking bloke a couple of nights ago. They don't know his name, but they've heard from other regulars (or the regulars chip in) that they've seen him hanging around this old house (which happens to be one of the cult's meeting spots).

They find the house and it's stakeout time. I remember this setup from a WFRPG kidnapping adventure, where they basically drew up plans for the houses, had a rough map of the street, had basic patrol routes and daily schedules for the kidnappers, then let the PCs plan away to their hearts' content.

I don't know how you plan for the rest of this story to go, but this should keep them busy for a couple of sessions.

Braininthejar2
2019-03-30, 05:52 PM
They find the house and it's stakeout time. I remember this setup from a WFRPG kidnapping adventure, where they basically drew up plans for the houses, had a rough map of the street, had basic patrol routes and daily schedules for the kidnappers, then let the PCs plan away to their hearts' content.

"With a little help of my friends"?

Thank you. Now I know what to do, and I've also figured out how to cut the trail so that the player destroys this cell, but not the whole cult. :smallbiggrin:

jayem
2019-03-30, 06:51 PM
If they're cheap thugs, then they'd likely be using their own equipment, so:

Which is also (proportionally) more expensive. Changing a cloak is going to be rare enough to almost expect clues and be a plot point.

Weapons and relatively close range. As is communication.

Even towns are relatively small (so a stranger stands out) and they won't be going far quickly so the search space is a lot narrower.

Pippa the Pixie
2019-03-30, 08:08 PM
So, what kinds of clues do medieval setting stories use?

But in fantasy? what is the equivalent? What clues can there be beyond divination and/or living witnesses?

Well....the modern tech clues are really only the last 20 years or so. So that does give you the, oh 200 years before 2000 or so as an example. Watch any cop/detective/murder mystery made before 2000 or so. And you can still watch newer ones set in ''times long ago".

The list of non tech stuff is HUGE....and note is still a big part of modern mysteries. Foot prints, dropped items, anything damaged and so on.

Brother Oni
2019-03-30, 08:40 PM
"With a little help of my friends"?

Thank you. Now I know what to do, and I've also figured out how to cut the trail so that the player destroys this cell, but not the whole cult. :smallbiggrin:

That's the one. I think I still got the original White Dwarf it was in somewhere as well...

I would suggest having enough leads and hints to indicate that there's a larger cult, but not enough information for the PCs to trace it back (say they raid the house and by the time they break into the final room, there's a single lone cultist busy burning all the documents and they can't recover enough for a concrete trail).

The Glyphstone
2019-03-31, 12:40 AM
Well....the modern tech clues are really only the last 20 years or so. So that does give you the, oh 200 years before 2000 or so as an example. Watch any cop/detective/murder mystery made before 2000 or so. And you can still watch newer ones set in ''times long ago".

The list of non tech stuff is HUGE....and note is still a big part of modern mysteries. Foot prints, dropped items, anything damaged and so on.

Heck, for a good portion of the medieval-Renaissance era 'detective work' consisted of finding the most likely suspects, or just the first available local malcontents, and torturing them until they confessed to whatever crime you needed a guilty party for. There's plenty of physical forensic evidence that can be sought out for a suitably anachronistic investigator.

Brother Oni
2019-03-31, 05:39 AM
Heck, for a good portion of the medieval-Renaissance era 'detective work' consisted of finding the most likely suspects, or just the first available local malcontents, and torturing them until they confessed to whatever crime you needed a guilty party for. There's plenty of physical forensic evidence that can be sought out for a suitably anachronistic investigator.

In addition to Cadfael, The Glyphstone's post has reminded me of The Name of the Rose (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Name_of_the_Rose_(film)) with Sean Connery, which features both ends of the spectrum of medieval detective work, with a somewhat anachronistic monk hunting for clues and following a mystery at one end and the local scapegoats being rounded up, tortured and sentenced for execution for heresy at the other end.

Cygnia
2019-03-31, 07:57 AM
If your campaign world isn't solely based on Western/European styles & influences, another source of inspiration might be the Judge Dee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Dee) novels.

hymer
2019-03-31, 02:57 PM
The target is a local healer, who accidentally thwarted an evil cult's biological weapon test.
She's kind of a minor celebrity for her skills, so they know killing her will step on some toes, and they don't want to show their hand yet.

So they hire some thugs from outside the city (the city is on a crossroads of caravan trails - it sees plenty foreigners. These two were caravan guards fired for drinking on the job and stranded in town. That makes them completely disposible, but also not very competent.)
The questions were meant to prod your imagination. :smallsmile: The process of investigation is about asking questions and then finding as many answers as you can. If you as the GM come up with questions and answers that are helpful to the investigators, you know how to give clues. And make plenty of clues! Players aren't professional investigators and need some help.

Braininthejar2
2019-03-31, 03:25 PM
I would suggest having enough leads and hints to indicate that there's a larger cult, but not enough information for the PCs to trace it back (say they raid the house and by the time they break into the final room, there's a single lone cultist busy burning all the documents and they can't recover enough for a concrete trail).

My current idea is, the cell leader is a ghost possesing a minor criminal. His thugs know very little, and when he's cornered by pursuers, he'll taunt the hero, and then release his host off a tall roof.

Great Dragon
2019-04-01, 06:54 AM
In fantasy, living witnesses can include birds and plants, of course.

Also, even the Dead can talk!
Setting up a hit without even the target not seeing who did it is really hard.

Also weapon(s) used and method of killing (style used, or Sneak Attack; visible magical effects) can be clues given by any witnesses: Dead, Animals, Plants, heck (in older D&D editions) even nearby stone floors/walls and rocks can be witnesses!!

Also, in addition to the above fact that Old Time people didn't travel much, most towns were small enough that everyone knew everyone else, and strangers were noticed because they stood out. Even in a trade town there were enough regulars that kept track of who just arrived/left.

Something like Teleportation could get a person far enough away to not be immediately recognized on sight; but their accent and mannerisms would be harder to hide.


My current idea is, the cell leader is a ghost possesing a minor criminal. His thugs know very little, and when he's cornered by pursuers, he'll taunt the hero, and then release his host off a tall roof.
This Ghost would avoid all Clerics and Paladins (anyone with the Religion skill) like the Plague. While they can't turn him while in a host, they can figure out a possession and knock the host out to Force the Ghost to abandon the body.

Mutazoia
2019-04-01, 08:05 AM
One of my favorite inspirations for this sort of game would be the Brother Cadfael (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cadfael_Chronicles)novels, set in 12th Cent. England.

For the lazy amongst us, you can watch the BBC TV adaptation.

Cygnia
2019-04-01, 08:32 AM
@Brain, what level &/system are you running your game in? That might help in determining what is or isn't feasible for the players to pull off...

Braininthejar2
2019-04-02, 06:56 AM
@Brain, what level &/system are you running your game in? That might help in determining what is or isn't feasible for the players to pull off...

A very low level Exalted (the player made a medicine supernal twilight, and insists on hiding her powers, solving problems mostly through dialogue. As for what she can do... she can cure people really well, and she could summon a demon if she had a free day and a good reason.)