Clarification needed - Monter entries: Spells (SU), (SP), (EX) or other?

[Elrak]

Hi fellow playgrounders,

This will be the first time I open up a thread after failing at my google-fu. Usually I have learned that any given question I have about the game would probably have already been asked here or answered in passing within a class handbook or similar, this time however I seem to be at an impasse despite my best efforts.

So a bit of a background.
I am currently playing a Ranger(UA variant)/Master of many forms and to make sure I do not stall the game once we get together again, I was perusing the Monster Manuals to get an idea of what EX abilities are and will be at my disposal. (I was also making plans for assume supernatural ability later on but that is besides the point.)

During this exercise I found the entries for Kuo-Toa-Exalted Whip, Ushemoi, Hobgoblin Warsoul and Warcaster (MMV) which display a similar entry: Divine/Arcane Talent (EX) which allow them to cast divine and arcane spells respectively and being explicitly labeled as (EX) are fair game for a MoMF (even if you only get access to this (EX) abilities at MofM 7)

This however got me thinking, are there any other creatures that have the ability to cast spells as (EX) abilities?

Also what about the entries of Spells? Are these considered (SU),(SP), (EX) or something else (i.e. Just plain Spells)? The only reference to this I have been able to find so far is the MMI glossary entry "Spells" which goes to say that some creatures can cast spells similar to a class simply due to their nature as a member of that race but makes no reference as what type of ability this ends up being. Is there maybe an errata where this may have been addressed or am I just overseeing an entry in a rule book? The only similar case I was able to find was regarding the DR/xxx entries where the errata mentions that they may be (EX) or (SU) depending of what they protect against (i.e. DR/Slashing = (EX) whilst DR/Magic= (SU)), so maybe a similar thing exists for this?

Thanks in advance and sorry for any grammar/spelling mistakes.

[Thurbane]

Good luck with that - It's something that has been hotly debated most of the lifespan of 3E.

Some will say Ex, some will say "other".

Allowing them to be Ex opens up a can of worms, with spells or abilities that allow you to assume the Ex abilities of monsters.

People will cite different rule-books with different answers and interpretations.

My honest, best answer? Ask the DM.

[Elrak]

Thanks Thurbane, I can see how this could get out of hand although I doubt it would derail a game much more than what a regular caster can already do.

I had hoped that I would have more details on the general debate though as the group I play in has 2 alternating DMs , one of them being me and I am usually the one with the most rules knowledge so more often than not we go with my interpretation. As this case however is affecting my own character I want to avoid making a too biased proposal.

would you have any reference to a good discussion thread where this topic may have previously come up?

Thanks again :)

[Jack_Simth]

Well, if you want to go down the rabbit-hole....

Here's one such (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?369536-Shapechange-Spells-and-Spell-like-Abilities); not going to comment much on the quality, though. Do remember the forum necromancy rules before posting in it, however. It's from 2014.

[Elrak]

Thanks you both, indeed this is a can of worms :smallfrown: . at it is apparanet that I should have tried to google a bit harder-.- (to my defense it was about 2 am when I posted the thread yesterday) For what it is worth I think I have come with a ruling that will work for the group of friends I play with. I surely do not want to have Alter self and co suddenly become even more powerful than they already are.

[Bronk]

Here’s another good thread, and it brings up more examples like the lillitu and a particular hobgoblin from MM5.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?229119-Is-Spellcasting-an-EX-ability#post_12544221