Prismatic Spray - How Cool Is It?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I think this spell is super variable in the results. A caster could get lucky with a couple 6's and 7's and eliminate the big bad guys from a group of enemies entirely. That's a, what, 30% chance of something really cool happening.

Roll a bunch of 1's through 5's and it doesn't suck but it isn't fantastic for a 7th level spell.

What do you all think?


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7th-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self (60-foot cone)
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
Eight multicolored rays of light flash from your hand. Each ray is a different color and has a different power and purpose. Each creature in a 60-foot code must make a Dexterity saving throw. For each target, roll a d8 to determine which color ray affects it.


Red. The target takes 10d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Orange. The target takes 10d6 acid damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Yellow. The target takes 10d6 lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Green. The target takes 10d6 poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Blue. The target takes 10d6 cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Indigo. On a failed save, the target is restrained. It must then make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. If it successfully saves three times, the spell ends. If it fails its save three times, it permanently turns to stone and is subjected to the petrified condition. The successes and failures don’t need to be consecutive; keep track of both until the target collects three of a kind.
Violet. On a failed save, the target is blinded. It must then make a Wisdom saving throw at the start of your next turn. A successful save ends the blindness. If it fails that save, the creature is transported to another plane of existence of the DM’s choosing and is no longer blinded. (Typically, a creature that is on a plane that isn’t its home plane is banished home, while other creatures are usually cast into the Astral or Ethereal planes.)
Special. The target is struck by two rays. Roll twice more, rerolling any 8.

[LudicSavant]

I think this spell is super variable in the results. A caster could get lucky with a couple 6's and 7's and eliminate the big bad guys from a group of enemies entirely. That's a, what, 30% chance of something really cool happening.

Roll a bunch of 1's through 5's and it doesn't suck but it isn't fantastic for a 7th level spell.

What do you all think?


************************************************** *****
7th-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self (60-foot cone)
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
Eight multicolored rays of light flash from your hand. Each ray is a different color and has a different power and purpose. Each creature in a 60-foot code must make a Dexterity saving throw. For each target, roll a d8 to determine which color ray affects it.


Red. The target takes 10d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Orange. The target takes 10d6 acid damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Yellow. The target takes 10d6 lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Green. The target takes 10d6 poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Blue. The target takes 10d6 cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Indigo. On a failed save, the target is restrained. It must then make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. If it successfully saves three times, the spell ends. If it fails its save three times, it permanently turns to stone and is subjected to the petrified condition. The successes and failures don’t need to be consecutive; keep track of both until the target collects three of a kind.
Violet. On a failed save, the target is blinded. It must then make a Wisdom saving throw at the start of your next turn. A successful save ends the blindness. If it fails that save, the creature is transported to another plane of existence of the DM’s choosing and is no longer blinded. (Typically, a creature that is on a plane that isn’t its home plane is banished home, while other creatures are usually cast into the Astral or Ethereal planes.)
Special. The target is struck by two rays. Roll twice more, rerolling any 8.


It's not great. 10d6 random elemental damage is bad for a 7th level spell, and that's what you're getting 62.5% of the time.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

It's not great. 10d6 random elemental damage is bad for a 7th level spell, and that's what you're getting 62.5% of the time.

I'll agree you should only use it when there are several opponents to hit. Using it against a single opponent kinda sucks.

Ignoring saves Finger of Death does 7d8 + 30 damage so about 61.5ish to one target

Ignoring saves, this does 10d6 to each so 35ish to each target, so except for the part where the damage is spread out, Prismatic Spray out damages Finger of Death if there are at least two targets. I'll say bump it to 3 or 4 targets and the 105 then 140 expected damage is superior unless there is ONE opponent in a group you must eliminate by doing 60 points of damage to. Naturally adding more targets makes Prismatic Spray better by increasing the number of chances of the cool 6 & 7 effects happening.

[LudicSavant]

I'll agree you should only use it when there are several opponents to hit. Using it against a single opponent kinda sucks.

Ignoring saves Finger of Death does 7d8 + 30 damage so about 61.5ish to one target

Ignoring saves, this does 10d6 to each so 35ish to each target, so except for the part where the damage is spread out, Prismatic Spray out damages Finger of Death if there are at least two targets. I'll say bump it to 3 or 4 targets and the 105 then 140 expected damage is superior unless there is ONE opponent in a group you must eliminate by doing 60 points of damage to. Naturally adding more targets makes Prismatic Spray better by increasing the number of chances of the cool 6 & 7 effects happening.

10d6 random elemental damage is poor damage for a 7th level AoE spell, not just when you're hitting a single opponent.

Edit: For instance, it's slightly less damage on average than a Cold of Cold, a mere 5th-level spell with the same AoE size. And Cone of Cold isn't even one of the stronger spells out there.

[MrStabby]

I love it as a DM. When enemies are throwing around this spell it does two things: it telegraphs they are high level and it impacts the party without being likely to kill anyone.

As a player it is pretty weak.

Is it cool? Hell yeah. Whenever you roll you don't know what is going to happen.


I think it wouldn't be unbalanced for a 7th level spell for each of the colours to have some kind of adverse effect so there is a bit more of a control element as well. Also rolling 2d8 and the caster getting to pick would add both more flexibility but also more power (almost twice chance of getting an 8)

[OmSwaOperations]

Not directly relevant to the question, but there's some really cool backstory behind the spell "Prismatic Spray".

Gygax based it on a spell called "The Excellent Prismatic Spray", found in the Dying Earth series of novels, written by Jack Vance. That spell summoned a hundred iridescent darts of fire in a roughly circular spacing around a target, that constricted immediately, impaling the target and killing them instantly.

Suffice it to say that that prismatic spray was incredibly cool (although perhaps a bit OP to give to players or monsters) :P

[Zalabim]

For each target, there's a 5/8 chance it does 10d6, a 2/8 chance it tries to end them, and a 1/8 chance of two results.
If two results, there's 25/49 for 20d6 damage, 20/49 for 10d6 damage and one of the end effects, and 4/49 chance for two ending effects.
Putting it into a single line, each target is affected by 80% chance of 10d6 damage (random element) and 16% chance of flesh to stone (basically the whole spell), and 16% chance of blind -> banishment.

The damage is lower, but it is a low chance area save or die. With no concentration. What similar spells can say that? Mass Suggestion comes to mind, but is clearly different.

[stoutstien]

definitely a spell wild magic sorc should have for flavor alone.

[LudicSavant]

For each target, there's a 5/8 chance it does 10d6, a 2/8 chance it tries to end them, and a 1/8 chance of two results.
If two results, there's 25/49 for 20d6 damage, 20/49 for 10d6 damage and one of the end effects, and 4/49 chance for two ending effects.
Putting it into a single line, each target is affected by 80% chance of 10d6 damage (random element) and 16% chance of flesh to stone (basically the whole spell), and 16% chance of blind -> banishment.

The damage is lower, but it is a low chance area save or die. With no concentration. What similar spells can say that? Mass Suggestion comes to mind, but is clearly different.

Of course, that's just the chance of rolling those effects, not the chance of actually landing them. Both the "restrain" effect and "blind" effect are "save or nothing happens" types. And for them to get those "die" parts, you need to wait and have them fail multiple saves. Those probabilities add up. As does the unpredictability itself; reliability is a very important strategic factor.

[ImproperJustice]

It really just “shines best” when you can target multiple enemies in a single blast, and increase the odds of some of the more exciting effects.

Really sings if your airborne and can hit that 60’ circle on the ground.

[MrStabby]

Of course, that's just the chance of rolling those effects, not the chance of actually landing them. Both the "restrain" effect and "blind" effect are "save or nothing happens" types. And for them to get those "die" parts, you need to wait and have them fail multiple saves. Those probabilities add up. As does the unpredictability itself; reliability is a very important strategic factor.

There is one more factor... there are different saves.

First save is a dex save. Then we have constitution (for example). For characters of a given level, "what is the probability of failing a constitution save" and "what is the probability of failing a constitution save given you have failed a dex save?" are different and the second is usually lower: if you failed the dex save it is more likely you are not proficient in dexterity saves. If you are not proficient in dexterity saves you are more likely to be proficient in constitution saves. Likewise, if you fail a dex save you are more likely to have low dex; low dex suggests more points at character creation went into other stats.

[LudicSavant]

There is one more factor... there are different saves.

First save is a dex save. Then we have constitution (for example). For characters of a given level, "what is the probability of failing a constitution save" and "what is the probability of failing a constitution save given you have failed a dex save?" are different and the second is usually lower: if you failed the dex save it is more likely you are not proficient in dexterity saves. If you are not proficient in dexterity saves you are more likely to be proficient in constitution saves. Likewise, if you fail a dex save you are more likely to have low dex; low dex suggests more points at character creation went into other stats.

Yeah.

The random factor also means that in practice, there's often a chance of you hitting a resistance or immunity against so, so many high level enemies. In practice, not knowing what you are going to get out makes it less than the sum of its parts, and the sum of its parts isn't great in the first place.

[Chronos]

Yeah, if you want to damage a red dragon, you'd pick Cone of Cold, and if you want to damage a white dragon, you'd pick Fireball. But Prismatic Spray might give you fire against the red or cold against the white.