Breaking up magic schools like ToB disciplines

[Mike Miller]

If you were to split up access to schools of magic the way crusader/swordsage/warblade split up access to disciplines, how would you go about it? What classes would you choose to break them up? How much overlap would you want? Only one discipline is available to all 3 initiators, so I would aim for minimal overlap.

I am thinking some sort of division between just the core full caster classes at the moment: cleric, druid, sorcerer, wizard.

This is arbitrary and without much thought but:
Abj- Wiz
Con- all 4
Div- Cle
Enc- Wiz
Evo- Sor
Ill- Sor
Nec- Cle
Tra- Dru

[TalonOfAnathrax]

If you were to split up access to schools of magic the way crusader/swordsage/warblade split up access to disciplines, how would you go about it? What classes would you choose to break them up? How much overlap would you want? Only one discipline is available to all 3 initiators, so I would aim for minimal overlap.

I am thinking some sort of division between just the core full caster classes at the moment: cleric, druid, sorcerer, wizard.

This is arbitrary and without much thought but:
Abj- Wiz
Con- all 4
Div- Cle
Enc- Wiz
Evo- Sor
Ill- Sor
Nec- Cle
Tra- Dru
So you're giving everyone access to all spells in their chosen schools, regardless of class lists? Or are arcane transmutation spells all banned, now?
If you are doing that, please be aware that healing spells are conjuration. Giving everyone conjuration gives everyone healing and resurrection.

My suggestions:
Keep the arcane vs divine divide, but allow all base classes to choose from the spell lists of all other base classes of the same type (arcane or divine). So a Cleric could pick Druid-only spells, for example.

Abjuration - Wizard, Cleric
Conjuration - Wizard, Cleric
Divination - All 4
Enchantment - All 4
Evocation - Sorcerer, Wizard
Illusion - Sorcerer, Druid
Necromancy - Cleric, Wizard
Transmutation - Sorcerer, Druid

Special: I'd say that that Read Magic, Detect Magic, Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic out to be available to all. Consider them Universal spells.

The Druid gets fewer schools than the others because she has Wild Shape, which is amazing.

tl;dr:

Wizards get Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment and Necromancy.
Sorcerers get Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Transmutation
Druids get Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, Transmutation
Clerics get Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Necromancy

[ezekielraiden]

Wouldn't the loss of access to Conjuration mean Druids can no longer heal (even with the limits they had before), and lose their spontaneous SNA stuff? Not that I think it's bad to nerf Druids, but this does mean a pretty substantial reduction in utility.

Also: wouldn't it be better to have Wizards and Clerics have at least one school different?

[Mike Miller]

I expected the classes to maintain access to magic as per their class , just limited access to schools. I am not saying all spells of a school are available. The arcane casters still learn just arcane spells, just heavily restricted.

I was just thinking about ToB discipline distribution and this idea came to mind. Perhaps each class should have a 4th school (except druid?) to round out choices.

[JMS]

I expected the classes to maintain access to magic as per their class , just limited access to schools. I am not saying all spells of a school are available. The arcane casters still learn just arcane spells, just heavily restricted.

I was just thinking about ToB discipline distribution and this idea came to mind. Perhaps each class should have a 3rd school (except druid?) to round out choices.

Yeah, looking at the ToB, We have a 3 school class (Crusader), a 6? School class (Swordsage), and a 5 school class (Warblade), and while 4 schools are one class only, 4 are available to 2, and 1 to all.
I might do this:
Abj- Wiz, Cle
Con- all 4
Div- Cle, Wiz?
Enc- Wiz
Evo- Sor, Dru?
Ill- Sor
Nec- Cle
Tra- Dru

Gives us a similar distribution of spells.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Firstly, the different disciplines are nowhere near as thematically broad as an entire school of magic. The famously-narrow and -inflexible Evocation school is more varied than all nine ToB disciplines put together, and if you were to declare that those plus every homebrew discipline ever written were part of a single "Blade-o-Mancy" school of magic, no one would bat an eye. Secondly, as JMS mentioned, while only one discipline is shared by all three initiators (Stone Dragon), three of them are shared by at least two initiators (Diamond Mind, Tiger Claw, and White Raven), so that's a full half of the disciplines that overlap.

Given both of those, I wouldn't assign full spell schools to different casters at all. Rather, I'd split up all of the schools into 3-6 "magical disciplines" and hand those out instead, mostly along existing subschool and descriptor lines but a few purely thematic ones. For instance, Conjuration might become the disciplines of Cunning Artifice (conjuring items), Folded Space (teleportation and extradimensional spaces), Horizon Jaunt (plane shifting and blinking), Hungry Void (tearing holes in space and manifesting creatures), and Spiritual Tether (summoning and calling). Druids would get Cunning Artifice and Spiritual Tether, Clerics would get those two and Horizon Jaunt, and Wizards would get all five. (This assumes, of course, that blasty Conjurations were moved to Evocation and healing and resurrection were moved to Necromancy, where they belong, or Wizards and Clerics would get the blasty discipline and Clerics and Druids would get the healy discipline.)

If you're willing to blur school boundaries, you can make disciplines even more thematic. Iron Dominion is calling and binding spells from Conjuration plus some mind control spells from Enchantment, Hidden Grove is plant spells from Transmutation, plus some figments from Illusion, and so forth.

That all depends, of course, on what your goal is by handing out schools of magic to different casters. What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this setup?

[Mike Miller]

I was mostly thinking to restrict magic across classes for specialization in various themes, which your extra breakdowns added.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

In that case, yeah, allocating subschools and descriptors instead of full schools is the way to go. I could write up a full list of fluffy disciplines if you'd like.

[Mike Miller]

In that case, yeah, allocating subschools and descriptors instead of full schools is the way to go. I could write up a full list of fluffy disciplines if you'd like.

All ideas are appreciated. The more brainstorming of ideas the better! Thanks!

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Alrighty then. Here goes.

*cracks knuckles*

Abjuration
Adamant Shield (physical buffs and defenses, damaging auras, contingent defenses)
Mystic Seal (runes/glyphs/etc., banishment, negating interplanar/extraplanar effects, keeping creatures away)
Purifying Light (antimagic and dispelling, condition removal, immunities)
Vigilant Warden (alarms, mental and magical buffs and defenses, alignment-related stuff)

Conjuration
Cunning Artifice
Folded Space
Horizon Jaunt
Hungry Void
Spiritual Tether

Divination
Akashic Talent (gaining or enhancing skill-/weapon-based abilities)
Distant Observer (spells with sensors, remote sensing, find X/locate X spells)
Learned Scholar (know X spells, learning or understanding creature or object properties, language-related spells)
Mental Communion (mind reading, commune with X spells)
Third Eye (detect X/sense X/etc. spells, adding or altering senses)
Weighty Portent (seeing the future, cryptic spells like legend lore)

Enchantment
Absolute Decree (command X/control X spells, domination, truth spells)
Fast Friends (charms, positive-emotion buffs and debuffs [calmness/laughter/heroism/etc.], memory manipulation)
Gilded Chain (bindings/geases, hold/sleep/etc. spells, forced actions)
Silver Tongue (suggestion and similar, enthrallment/fascination/hypnotism/etc., Power Word spells)
Spiraling Madness (negative-emotion buffs and debuffs [rage/confusion/fear/etc.)

Evocation
Blazing Sun (fire/light/positive energy spells, explosions)
Crystalline Might (force spells, non-weather-themed ice spells, magic-affecting spells)
Inevitable Entropy (acid/darkness/poison/shadow spells, blight/pain/etc. themed spells)
Raging Storm (air/cold/lightning spells, weather manipulation, clouds and fogs)
Roaring Waves (sonic/water spells)
Solemn Invocation (alignment-based spells, smiting, personal and weapon buffs)
Unyielding Stone (earth/sand/metal spells, creating or affecting structures, contingencies)

Illusion
False Illumination (patterns, light spells, instantaneous [Shadow] spells, concealing things)
Imaginary Friends (phantasms, glamers and disguises, illusory creatures and sounds)
Manifest Thought (non-creature figments, dream/nightmare spells, non-instantaneous [Shadow] spells)
Sensory Deprivation (silence, darkness, perception-related debuffs)

Necromancy
Corpse Puppet (controlling/bolstering/speaking with/disrupting corpses and undead, blood/bone/skin/etc. themed spells)
Encroaching Doom (curses, fear, pain, desecration, DoT spells, contingent spells)
Spiritual Essence (healing, resurrection, death ward and similar, death and negative energy spells, mental stat buffs/debuffs)
Stolen Vigor (life/power/breath/heat/etc. draining, diseases, poison, temporary hit points, fatigue/exhaustion/paralysis, physical stat buff/debuffs)
Wandering Souls (creating undead, trapping souls, dealing with astral/spirit/incorporeal things, detecting life force)

Transmutation
Bestial Aspect (partial shapechanging, taking on creature traits like wings or senses, spells affecting animals)
Gravity Defied (flight, telekinesis, levitation and buoyancy, changing size, becoming gaseous/amorphous/incorporeal)
Marching Golem (animating objects, shaping/controlling substances, fabricating things, manipulating constructs)
Morphic Body (full shapechanging, iron body and similar)
Perfected Form (stat buffs, pure speed/AC/etc. buffs without a transformation theme, healing and repair)
True Alchemy (transmuting substances, changing object properties, heat- and cold-related spells)