In Monk guides, why isn't Defensive Duelist feat ranked higher than Mobile?

[Spo]

I only have a lvl 3 open hand monk and looking at building a drunken style one next. Both styles have disengage mechanics built into them. Open hand prevents reactions (like opportunity attacks) and drunken has disengage built right in.

Since short sword is a finesse weapon and a monk weapon and defensive duelist gives you a +5 AC to melee if you are wielding the weapon, wouldn't you want that feat all day long.

Since I am a novice to the monk class, I am just wondering if I am missing something here.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[Trustypeaches]

If you’re a high level monk, sure, but at that point you’re probably more likely to be dealing with save effects than attack rolls.

[Man_Over_Game]

I only have a lvl 3 open hand monk and looking at building a drunken style one next. Both styles have disengage mechanics built into them. Open hand prevents reactions (like opportunity attacks) and drunken has disengage built right in.

Since short sword is a finesse weapon and a monk weapon and defensive duelist gives you a +5 AC to melee if you are wielding the weapon, wouldn't you want that feat all day long.

Since I am a novice to the monk class, I am just wondering if I am missing something here.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Honestly? It probably has more to do with the fact that players like dealing damage more than they like mitigating it. Plus, that additional survivability cost you 1 damage than someone without the feat would have.

Additionally, the Monk has a lot of uses for Reactions (Slowfall, OA's, Deflect Missile) and adding another might end up causing too many features to compete for your one Reaction.

However, most builds wouldn't recommend Mobile for those subclasses. I'd expect Mobile to be more on the Kensei or Long Death builds.

[stoutstien]

with step of the wind they already have a way to grant ~5 AC and monks being very stat dependent mean they usually only get one feat if they max dex and wis. if it was a half feat it would be much better over all and for monks

[Yakmala]

Don't get me wrong, I like Defensive Duelist. But some things to keep in mind.

1: It only starts getting good as your proficiency bonus goes up. Pick it up with your Monk's Level 12 ASI at the earliest.

2: Unlike the Shield spell, it only works vs. one attack per round. And there are a lot of enemies out there with multiple attacks.

[CheddarChampion]

With defensive duelist you are better prepared to receive one melee attack or one ranged spell attack per round.
With mobile, you are better prepared to get out of range of any melee attacks and get into position.
One of these works towards the Monk's strengths, the other tries to make the monk a tank.

[Spo]

I am sooo glad I asked this question here. Looking at all the comments had me re-evaluate my interpretation of the feat and examine how it meshes with the subclasses chosen.

Thanks for explaining the nuances of this feat to me.

[Citan]

I only have a lvl 3 open hand monk and looking at building a drunken style one next. Both styles have disengage mechanics built into them. Open hand prevents reactions (like opportunity attacks) and drunken has disengage built right in.

Since short sword is a finesse weapon and a monk weapon and defensive duelist gives you a +5 AC to melee if you are wielding the weapon, wouldn't you want that feat all day long.

Since I am a novice to the monk class, I am just wondering if I am missing something here.

Thanks in advance for your advice.


Don't get me wrong, I like Defensive Duelist. But some things to keep in mind.

1: It only starts getting good as your proficiency bonus goes up. Pick it up with your Monk's Level 12 ASI at the earliest.

2: Unlike the Shield spell, it only works vs. one attack per round. And there are a lot of enemies out there with multiple attacks.


With defensive duelist you are better prepared to receive one melee attack or one ranged spell attack per round.
With mobile, you are better prepared to get out of range of any melee attacks and get into position.
One of these works towards the Monk's strengths, the other tries to make the monk a tank.
Both these sum up well.

Mobile is simply leagues better for a Monk considering it's a flat improvement to "how be a Monk" (+speed, hit & run) for no action economy.

Another point: as Yakmala said, DD start being good taken at level 12 or so. At that level, you should start having enough base AC and Ki for Dodge to be resilient enough as is. Moreover, you should start wanting to get reaction to try and get Opportunity Attacks on which attempt a Stunning Strike. Finally, you also get a reaction against ranged attacks, and since you are a kiting character, you may be targeted by arrows more often than you'd think.
-> Overall too much competition on that reaction compared to the benefit it provides.

[MaxWilson]

I only have a lvl 3 open hand monk and looking at building a drunken style one next. Both styles have disengage mechanics built into them. Open hand prevents reactions (like opportunity attacks) and drunken has disengage built right in.

Since short sword is a finesse weapon and a monk weapon and defensive duelist gives you a +5 AC to melee if you are wielding the weapon, wouldn't you want that feat all day long.

Since I am a novice to the monk class, I am just wondering if I am missing something here.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

It's +2 at third level, not +5.

IME DD monks are still quite squishy. AC 18+2 is still only AC 20. Better not to be attacked at all because you're out of range.

[Citan]

It's +2 at third level, not +5.

IME DD monks are still quite squishy. AC 18+2 is still only AC 20. Better not to be attacked at all because you're out of range.
Better yet: "better to entice your melee enemy to attack you with a thrown weapon / ranged attack (which is probably less good at) so you have a chance at catching it and throwing it back right between its eyes". :smallbiggrin:

[DarkKnightJin]

Also, Mobile gives the 'Disengage Lite' effect *without* needing to spend Ki.
Open Hand and Drunken Master get those effects from using Flurry of Blows.
Mobile is always available. Just swing at a guy, and they can't retaliate.