Need a 5e "Crime" clerical domain

[FrancisBean]

I'm looking for ideas for mechanics for a Crime Domain for 5e clerics, expected to be only for NPC villains. I've got enough other world-building going on that I'm hoping somebody has something good enough for me to just blatantly steal without needing to modify it. :smallbiggrin: The deity in question will be Glasya -- yes, Asmodeus' daughter. Yes, I know that she's not normally considered a deity, but I've already made much bigger changes for this campaign.

Where I'm currently leaning:

I do not have a domain spell list.

Subtle Hands. You gain proficiency with sleight of hand at Level 1. If you are already proficient with Sleight of Hand, you may double your proficiency bonus for this skill.

Channel Divinity: Pilfer. At Level 2, you can use your Channel Divinity to hide objects. As an action, you can put an object in a pocket, purse, sack, wallet, etc., which then acts as a Bag of Holding for that object, and for you (and only you). That is, you can reach in and retrieve the object, but if searched by another party, the object is in an extra-dimensional space. This effect lasts for 1 hour.

Channel Divinity: Black Tongue. Starting at 6th level, you can use your Channel Divinity to gain brief immunity to magics which compel the truth. For up to 10 minutes, no magic can compel you to tell the truth; and no magic can reveal when you are lying.

Divine Strike. At 8th level, you gain (or augment) the Rogue's Sneak Attack ability at +1d6. When you reach 14th level, this bonus increases to +2d6.

17th level. I got nothing.

The L2 Pilfer is the only thing to which I'm inspirationally attached right now. Any ideas?

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm looking for ideas for mechanics for a Crime Domain for 5e clerics, expected to be only for NPC villains. I've got enough other world-building going on that I'm hoping somebody has something good enough for me to just blatantly steal without needing to modify it. :smallbiggrin: The deity in question will be Glasya -- yes, Asmodeus' daughter. Yes, I know that she's not normally considered a deity, but I've already made much bigger changes for this campaign.

Where I'm currently leaning:

I do not have a domain spell list.
What is it about the Trickery Domain that you find does not fit your needs? I would have thought them a perfect fit.

[FrancisBean]

What is it about the Trickery Domain that you find does not fit your needs? I would have thought them a perfect fit.

It's a legitimate question. I'm after something which is both grittier than a light-hearted prankster (to fit my campaign), and more tailor-fit to the fluff of crime. I see Trickery as sort of a weak default for Crime. The motivation is different, albeit sometimes overlapping: a Trickster is motivated by personal entertainment, whilst a Criminal is motivated by greed. That colors their goals, and I design from goals first.

For the partial list I built, I asked myself what goals a criminal would have. It's pretty much ways to get away with violating societal contracts for profit. That goes toward facilitating the actual crimes (improvements to sleight of hand), demonstrating alibis (hiding stuff, lying in court), and the ability to push your will forcefully when busted (sneak attack). Generating duplicates and helping others to sneak around can be helpful, but they seem like a weaker fit to me.

[Potato_Priest]

I might change the name of "pilfer" to "stash" or something related, since pilfering is the act of stealing something, not the act of hiding it.

[Man_Over_Game]

It's all a bit weak so far, to be honest.

The general formula we should be looking at is:

Level 1: Powerful, thematic ability that meshes well with what you're already going to be doing.
In this case, Crime implies that you're going to have many means of getting in-and-out of trouble. Proficiency on Stealth, Sleight of Hand, Insight and Deception. You can gain Expertise into two of those.

Level 2: Some kind of burst effect that usually works well in combat.
I know you like the Bag of Holding idea, and it's cool, but you really need to have something that's relevant for combat use. Maybe have it so that you can stow any item into this magical Bag of Holding with your Divinity, but drawing it out just requires your Bonus Action. The first attack you make with a weapon drawn this way is made with Advantage, but you must use your Channel Divinity before you can gain Advantage this way again.

Level 6: Some kind of passive ability that works off of one of your prior abilities.
I would exclude your Channel Divinity expense from this effect. Simply saying that your mind cannot be read by magic is perfectly fine, maybe tack on Resistance to Psychic Damage while you're at it and you always know when a magic spell can sense you (such as Arcane Eye).

Level 8: Divine Strike should be something thematic.
For Crime, I'm thinking Poison. Just remember that criminals don't deal with poison-resistant monsters, they deal with humanoids. Poison works fine against most things that Crime would deal with.

Level 17: Something powerful and thematic.
Once again, work off of what you're already going to be doing. You're already going to be stealing and lying, so let's work off of that. How about being able to cast Detect Thoughts at will?

[FrancisBean]

It's all a bit weak so far, to be honest.

The general formula we should be looking at is:

Level 1: Powerful, thematic ability that meshes well with what you're already going to be doing.
In this case, Crime implies that you're going to have many means of getting in-and-out of trouble. Proficiency on Stealth, Sleight of Hand, Insight and Deception. You can gain Expertise into two of those.

Level 2: Some kind of burst effect that usually works well in combat.
I know you like the Bag of Holding idea, and it's cool, but you really need to have something that's relevant for combat use. Maybe have it so that you can stow any item into this magical Bag of Holding with your Divinity, but drawing it out just requires your Bonus Action. The first attack you make with a weapon drawn this way is made with Advantage, but you must use your Channel Divinity before you can gain Advantage this way again.

Level 6: Some kind of passive ability that works off of one of your prior abilities.
I would exclude your Channel Divinity expense from this effect. Simply saying that your mind cannot be read by magic is perfectly fine, maybe tack on Resistance to Psychic Damage while you're at it and you always know when a magic spell can sense you (such as Arcane Eye).

Level 8: Divine Strike should be something thematic.
For Crime, I'm thinking Poison. Just remember that criminals don't deal with poison-resistant monsters, they deal with humanoids. Poison works fine against most things that Crime would deal with.

Level 17: Something powerful and thematic.
Once again, work off of what you're already going to be doing. You're already going to be stealing and lying, so let's work off of that. How about being able to cast Detect Thoughts at will?

You are, as usual, solidly on point. As much as I like the pilfer/stash concept, you're dead-on right about the mismatch for L2. I like where you're going with it, but it seems a bit weak to get just one attack with advantage. I haven't got any better ideas, though, so maybe it can be made up in other abilities. Which brings me to the L1 skills... That seems a bit too strong, so it's a perfect balance.

L6, I went from Trickery, which uses the Channel Divinity. But only Trickery and Knowledge (of the PHB domains) use CD for L6, so I think you may be right again. But at the same time, I think it needs to keep improving on criminal skills, alibis, and dealing with violence. Here's a wild idea which I haven't analyzed for balance yet. How workable would it be to have a magical ability which drops an illusion of your corpse while making you invisible, as a reaction when you take damage? (That is, when you take damage, you can opt to do that as a reaction, either via your CD or once per long rest.) I think it's weak in a party, but for an individual villain it's a rude surprise. I'm aiming for a villain domain, after all!

L8: I think you nailed it.

L17: Given that Detect Thoughts is a solid candidate for the Domain spell list, I think something else is needed here. Maybe some form of invisibility? Or a minion summoning ability? I'm still stuck here.

[Man_Over_Game]

You are, as usual, solidly on point. As much as I like the pilfer/stash concept, you're dead-on right about the mismatch for L2. I like where you're going with it, but it seems a bit weak to get just one attack with advantage. I haven't got any better ideas, though, so maybe it can be made up in other abilities. Which brings me to the L1 skills... That seems a bit too strong, so it's a perfect balance.

L6, I went from Trickery, which uses the Channel Divinity. But only Trickery and Knowledge (of the PHB domains) use CD for L6, so I think you may be right again. But at the same time, I think it needs to keep improving on criminal skills, alibis, and dealing with violence. Here's a wild idea which I haven't analyzed for balance yet. How workable would it be to have a magical ability which drops an illusion of your corpse while making you invisible, as a reaction when you take damage? (That is, when you take damage, you can opt to do that as a reaction, either via your CD or once per long rest.) I think it's weak in a party, but for an individual villain it's a rude surprise. I'm aiming for a villain domain, after all!

L8: I think you nailed it.

L17: Given that Detect Thoughts is a solid candidate for the Domain spell list, I think something else is needed here. Maybe some form of invisibility? Or a minion summoning ability? I'm still stuck here.

Hmm...

Level 17: You cannot be surprised, and you can spend your Reaction when you roll initiative to cast Invisibility upon yourself without spending a spell slot?
Or, when a creature attacks you and hits you, you can spend your Reaction to attempt to deflect it. A second attack roll is made, causing you to take damage as normal if the second roll hits. If the second roll misses, use the result from the first roll against a different creature adjacent to you, or the attack misses.

[FrancisBean]

Level 17: You cannot be surprised, and you can spend your Reaction when you roll initiative to cast Invisibility upon yourself without spending a spell slot?

Holy (words I can't use here)! I think you just nailed it. The rest is all in the details.... I waffle on whether that should be a use of CD, but given number of encounters and all that, I don't think it makes a real difference at L17.