What's a good spy build? 3.5

[Gustav]

I'm looking for an infiltrator/deception spy.
What's a good class/build?

[Eldariel]

Beguiler (PHBII). All the awesome enchantments and illusions to remain unnoticed, make people spill their beans and forget all about it, etc. with all the key skills and skill points to do this without magic too. Factotum and Bard are both good seconds in this regard.

[Allanimal]

I'm looking for an infiltrator/deception spy.
What's a good class/build?

Don’t have a build in mind, but I think a beguiler would be a great start. Sneaky with a good mix of enchantment, illusion and other deception spells.

[Mr Adventurer]

I'd say Factotum/Spymaster, getting Spymaster as soon as possible. Spymaster gives lots of hard counters to typical spy detection methods, and Factotum gives the breadth of flexibility I'd recommend - my experience is that with judicious use you can always have just the right thing at the right time.

[tiercel]

Beguiler does make a pretty tasty spy-in-a-can.

Having said that, straight-class Bard has some pretty high points:

Fascinate and Suggestion bardsongs let you pretty much just win social interactions even before taking skills or spells into account
Wanting a reasonably high Charisma has the nice benefit of being more likely to win opposed Cha checks for charm person/monster
Customizability: want Knowledge (Everything)? Bardic knowledge has you covered. Prefer to be Ultimate Skillmonkey? Say hello to Bardic Knack (especially paired with [i]improvisation). Prefer to have a knack for luck/success right when you need it most? Take Loresong instead (not least of all if you aren’t single-classing Bard).
Would you like to be something as well as as a spy? Be surprisingly tough in combat yourself with Inspire Courage, self-buffs, Crystal Echoblade, Snowflake Wardance, Slippers of Battledancing, etc. Be the party tactician/buffer with Inspire Courage and other buff optimization. Be one scary individual with Fear optimization (Inspire Awe, Haunting Melody, Imperious Command, Doomspeak, etc.)

[Telonius]

Races of Eberron has a couple of nice ones for Changelings. The Persona Immersion feat can help with avoiding detection. The Rogue substitution level (replaces Trapfinding, which you can get back in a number of ways if you care about it) lets you take 10 on several skills a spy would care about, as well as faster Gather Information and Sense Motive (assessing a social situation). Also gives the highest base skill points in the game: 10+Int. It's got enough goodies that a dedicated spy might - might - find it worth it to lose a caster level over it. If you're doing something more mundane like Spymaster, it's absolutely worth it.

[Particle_Man]

I think the biggest weakness in a spy build might be the rest of the party. :smallbiggrin:

[tiercel]

I think the biggest weakness in a spy build might be the rest of the party. :smallbiggrin:

Heh, truth; it’s also often a weakness of a “stealth”/scouting build, if the rest of the party can’t keep up, then you’re on your own for what you’re best at, and not doing what you’re best at when you’re not on your own.

...which is why it’s good to be something-as-well-as-spy, as I mentioned above talking up bards.

[Malphegor]

A dip in Changer of Form might be handy for a more magically focused spy if you can meet the requirements early

Once per day, change a thing whilst maintaining compositionally, structurally, value, into something else. So swords into scimitars is the option the book gives, but it could be used for forging documents (paper with writing into... paper with writing that is arranged differently? Probably still need to do a forgery check but that is cool), or if you were missing some component of your cover or disguise you could approximate it with random junk and then magically transmute it into the proper thing- “the red banner clan only wears red bandanas!” “Not a problem! <cuts open a sock, wraps it around face, turns it into a bandana>”

[Eldariel]

A dip in Changer of Form might be handy for a more magically focused spy if you can meet the requirements early

Once per day, change a thing whilst maintaining compositionally, structurally, value, into something else. So swords into scimitars is the option the book gives, but it could be used for forging documents (paper with writing into... paper with writing that is arranged differently? Probably still need to do a forgery check but that is cool), or if you were missing some component of your cover or disguise you could approximate it with random junk and then magically transmute it into the proper thing- “the red banner clan only wears red bandanas!” “Not a problem! <cuts open a sock, wraps it around face, turns it into a bandana>”

Where's Changer of Form from?

[Malphegor]

Where's Changer of Form from?

Oops, I was mistaken, it was Shaper of Form, Dragon Compendium