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Uvexar
2019-04-02, 10:08 PM
The Soul Eater (Book of Vile Darkness) is a prestige class available only to nonhumanoids - monsters, in most games. For players who are involved in monstrous campaigns and want to expand their power, the Soul Eater is absolutely astonishing. This guide will demonstrate this power.

Requirements: Or, How to Find a Lenient DM

Let me be clear: to join this PrC, you have to be a monster. Only non-humanoids can be in this prestige class. Monstrous humanoids still qualify, though - minotaur players, rejoice! This does put a bit of a damper on things, however, since it takes a very open-minded DM to allow a player to be a monstrous humanoid.

Being an undead humanoid (like a necropolitan) doesn't count either, since you specifically have to be living. However, if your creature type somehow changes to something other than undead or humanoid in the early span of a typical game, you can become a Soul Eater.

The requirements are all an exercise in a very specific type of game. In fact, they were probably developed solely as a PrC for villain monsters. However, if you intend to play a Soul Eater in an actual game, you will need to find a game that lets you fulfill the following requirements:


You must be evil. There are a great many evil campaigns out there, but all the warnings and guides to those should be noted beforehand. If you want to play a secretly or openly evil character in a good campaign, talk to the DM.
You must either encounter a powerful evil entity that desires a soul eater; or become one yourself in a profane ritual. Your DM must be okay with you powering yourself up in this manner, especially since any ritual or extraplanar contact will most likely have to be described in-game.
You must consume souls to survive. This is more fluff than anything, but would probably be mechanically represented by touching a new corpse or something. Your other players and the DM must be okay with soul consumption. This is D&D, so it's safe to assume most people would be okay with it, but it never hurts to check.
You must not be a humanoid or undead. This is addressed above. Players may also raise questions if you choose certain monstrous races, which I will address below.


In a nutshell, you need an evil party who are okay with high power levels and monstrous races. This means you'll likely be playing as part of a "murderhobo" campaign, where the players are hostile to all entities in the game world and possibly each other. If you're okay with this, it's great! But otherwise, you will need a lenient DM willing to bend the campaign "rules" in order to accommodate you.

The other requirements of the PrC are as follows:


BAB of +5 or higher
2 or more ranks in Knowledge(arcana)
The Alertness (good) and Weapon Focus(claw or other natural weapon) (meh) feats
Enough levels to spare to get to a point in the PrC you want considering any level adjustment (addressed below), or you can just use buy-off.


The BAB can be obtained through 5-8 levels on average, unless you're a wizard or similar spellcaster. You can get the arcana ranks at Level 1 if you don't mind possibly spending 2 extra points for cross-class skills. The feats can be obtained via racial hit dice on some monsters, or you can simply spend your feats on them.

It's not an optimal start, but rest assured it gets better.

Find an Evil Race: It's Really In This Year

There are a multitude of evil races to choose from. But considering that there seems to be a bit of a hangup on playing an """evil""" race in 3.5th edition, you can really only afford maybe a +2 level adjustment. The fact that you need hands or some kind of other touching appendage to use this PrC effectively, as well as a natural weapon (for the feat), was taken into consideration while making this list.

It goes without saying that if you're using buy-back and feel comfortable with it, or aren't using level adjustment at all for whatever reason, pick up whatever you want. Mind flayer is good, I guess.

(A note on sources - I will not be using the magazines. But everything else is open.)


Armand: +2 LA. +6 in both Dex and Con. Small, 20 foot movement, burrow speed, darkvision, stability, +4 natural AC, and a Defensive Stance. Has a claw attack dealing 1d4 damage. Comes with 5 HD. All fantastic bonuses, but I personally am not a fan of Small races (because I am a horrible person who refuses to accept people shorter than me as people). Not a fan of 20-foot movement, either.

Dragonkin: +2 LA. +8 Str, bonuses to Dex, Con, Wis and Cha. Large size, 20 foot movement, 40 foot (Good) flight, darkvision, +7 natural AC, and detect magic at will as a sorcerer of the dragonkin's HD. Comes with 7 HD. Has two claw attacks dealing 1d6 damage. This is just...wow. So many bonuses, so little time! Large size isn't optimal, but can be worked with. The main problem is that some dungeons won't be designed for you, but there are certain Soul Eater abilities that can rectify this problem.

Goatfolk: +1 LA. -2 to Int and Wis, but bonuses in Str and Con. Darkvision, Pack Fervor, and automatic proficiency with a greataxe and all simple weapons. Has a headbutt attack dealing 1d6 damage. For what you get, the negatives aren't too bad, and in a whole party of Goatfolk Pack Fervor can be quite good.

Minotaur: +2 LA. -2 to Int and Cha, hefty bonuses to Str and Con. Large size, darkvision, +5 natural armor, +4 to Search Spot and Listen, natural cunning, scent, Powerful Charge special attack, and automatic proficiency with greataxes and simple weapons. Comes with 6 HD. Has a gore attack dealing 1d8 damage. Minotaurs are lovely for almost everything except Soul Eaters and spellcasting classes, due to their penalties to the major casting stats. I can see this option being chosen. Just keep in mind the Large size.




Windrazor: +2 LA. Bonuses to Str, Dex and Wis, penalties to Int and Cha. Small size, 10 foot walk and climb, 40 foot (good) flight, darkvision, improved low-light vision, Improved Critical(claw, bite) feats, Rend, Fearsome Critical. Comes with 2 HD. Has two claws (1d6) and a bite (1d8). The many natural weapons is nice, but the penalty to Charisma (-4!) is way too much.




Satyr: +2 LA. +2 to all stats except Strength. 40 foot movement, low-light vision, +4 natural AC, Alertness feat, +4 to Listen, Hide, Move Silently, Perform, Search and Spot, Pipes, and DR 5/cold iron. Comes with 5 HD. Has a headbutt attack dealing 1d6 damage. Actually really good, especially considering the stat bonuses. If you take a +2, I recommend Satyr.



And...that's it! Those are all the +2 or less nonhumanoids that have natural weapons. There aren't a lot of options, and most of them are monstrous humanoids. If you're okay with +3 or more, pick from those monsters. Mind flayers, for example.

How to Cheat the Prereqs

Obviously, it would appear that gaining natural weapons, on top of being a nonhumanoid, is quite difficult. But thankfully, due to WoTC's sheer volume of output for 3.5e, we can work around these restrictions!

How? Feats. And grafts. But I'll cover that in a moment.

There are various ways to either a) obtain a nonhumanoid type, and/or b) gain natural attacks via feats. Most of them require a bit of investment (on the order of two or more feats), but you can avoid level adjustment in this manner.

I recommend Person_Man's guide to obtaining natural and bonus attacks in 3e and 3.5e. It includes a comprehensive list of feats and grafts that is helpful to everyone, not just Soul Eaters.

That being said, here are a few example options.

Deepspawn: If you take the Aberration Blood feat (found in Lords of Madness), this option gives you two tentacles attached to your waist that grant you a tentacle attack each. Quite nice.

Deformities: Found in Heroes of Horror and the BoVD, the bite and claw deformities grant you bite and claw attacks, respectively. The ones in HoH require Willing Deformity (a feat) and the evil alignment.

Draconic Claw: From Complete Arcane. This requires you have at least 1 level of sorcerer, and have the Draconic Heritage feat. But it lets you attack with the claw as a swift action on the same turn you cast a spell.

Dragonwrought Kobolds: Kobolds, infamously, become dragon type creatures when they take Dragonwrought at level 1. This can be followed up with the Draconic Tail feat later, granting you a tail attack.

Soulmelds: You need to take Shape Soulmeld and Open Chakra (pick one) for natural weapons, but there are tons of good soulmelds out there in the Incarnum. Or just become a totemist. But be careful how many levels you take, as you need to become a Soul Eater.

Otherworldly: Though it's a Faerun feat, and has some flavor that is required for your race, this makes you a native outsider.

In addition, there are a large number of grafts you can purchase or craft to get natural attacks. Some are cheap, but others may require more investment. There are also the symbiotic creatures (appearing in Fiend Folio) to think about.

The Base Character: It Belong to You

One obvious option for getting a +5 BAB is taking 1 level in 5 different classes. This is stupid, but it can be done.

You could take 5 levels of fighter or some other full BAB class. If you're of a martial bent, this is quite fine.

If you like casting, clerics reach +5 BAB at level 7. This also lets you reduce any LA you have by 1 at level 6 (via buyoff), freeing yourself up for more levels.

Otherwise, you'll need to enter as a caster with 1/2 progression, at level 10. You'll need to worry about LA as you increase your Soul Eater level.

(I'm not entirely sure on this point, but I think monstrous humanoids get a point of BAB for each racial hit die they start off with. So a 2 HD monster like a troglodyte grants you 2 BAB at the start. This frees up some levels, but I may be wrong. If I'm not, the Dragonkin and Minotaur get waaaayyy better.)

Other things to think about:

Feats: Some races give Alertness as a bonus feat, and some have enough racial hit dice to give you bonus feats. But for the rest, you'll need to invest part of your build into Weapon Focus(natural weapon of choice) and Alertness. If you're a fighter, you can get both of these in the first two levels via bonus feats. Other classes seem to be more feat-dependent, unfortunately, and so you'll need to sacrifice parts of your build for the Soul Eater prereqs. But think of it as an investment in a PrC equivalent to that required for Incantatrix or Sevenfold Veil (though perhaps not as powerful).

Combat: A Soul Eater's default ability set is quite limited (though potent), so you will want to invest in more versatile combat options. Spellcasting offers a wide variety of low-level spells that can aid you or your party. But don't discount fighters, rogues, or warblades! You never know when glorious melee combat is what will save the day.

Fluff: Something often ignored in optimization posts is character fluff. Think about who you want your character to be, and how you want them to become a Soul Eater. Are you a fighter unwillingly converted after encountering a dark god? Are you a paladin who forsook their faith, becoming a blackguard, and took dark powers in a foul ritual? Are you a sorcerer who cracked the secrets of the cosmos and made a deal with a Faustian entity? All these things are important for actual gameplay.

Soul Eaters: The Nitty Gritty, or Why Energy Drains are Good

The Soul Eater's base stats and advancements are as follows:


d8 hit dice.
4 + Int mod skill points each level.
Full BAB advancement.
All saves advance equally.
Climb, Concentration, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Search, Spellcraft, Spot, Swim, and Use Rope as class skills.


Not too shabby, to be honest.

The main problem with the Soul Eater is that you have to be willing to give up spellcasting and other class features to gain levels in it. If you're a fighter, it's perfectly fine, and is probably superior to anything you could make yourself. But if you're a caster, a warblade, a rogue, or some other ability-heavy class, you need to be sure what you're giving up is worth it.

What's the main draw of a Soul Eater, and why is it so powerful? Two words:

Energy drain.

At first level, a Soul Eater can deal a single negative level with its touch. This increases to two at 7th. This right here is the basis for all the shenaniganery to follow.

Energy drains are potent in 3rd edition and 3.5e, as most of us know. A few levels can mean the difference between a mighty cleric of Baalzebul and a wimpy acolyte who likes slugs. Too many can kill you, like most negative things in D&D.

The Soul Eater's whole shtick is energy draining! At will, on demand, always a melee touch attack away. (Or a natural weapon attack away.) Eventually, you gain other abilities, but this is one of the best.

Edit: Part of the reason Soul Eater is considered cheesy is because of the lack of a specific action given for the Energy Drain ability. RAW, it appears that it would allow you to make unlimited Energy Drain attacks each turn. However, the default action for a Supernatural ability (like Energy Drain) is 1 standard action, so I am going to take the side of 1 (or two) drains each round.

At 2nd level, a Soul Eater gains a +4 enhancement bonus to its Strength for 24 hours each time it uses Energy Drain. At 5th level, it also gains a +4 enhancement to Constitution; and at 8th, a +4 enhancement to Dexterity. I typically hate tying anything as essential to my health to something like a temporary bonus or magic item, but I will make an exception in this case.

At 3rd level, Soul Eaters can once per day, if they've drained two levels with Energy Drain that day, cause it to produce a 100 foot ray of force that deals up to 10d6 damage against a single target. The target gets a Reflex save to negate the damage, equal to 15 + SE level + Cha mod. The save is going to be hard (with a max save being 25 base) but doable for fast creatures, and it negates the damage entirely. This is why Charisma is important for Soul Eaters! They can deal 10d6 force damage each day at level 10 within 100 feet, something otherwise unheard-of.

At 4th level, Soul Eaters gain a +2 enhancement bonus (stacking with that derived from enhanced ability scores) to all saves, ability checks, and skill checks for 24 hours after using an Energy Drain. This is nice, but probably the weakest ability the Soul Eater possesses. Which isn't saying much.

Now here's where it gets interesting.

At 6th level, a Soul Eater can, if it completely drains a creature of energy, shapechange (as the spell) into that creature for 24 hours.

Whole worlds of possibility are opened up here. At level 11 minimum, a Soul Eater can potentially transform into any number of mighty creatures, using all their supernatural and extraordinary abilities. And this is basically at will! And it lasts for 24 hours! Think of the damage a Soul Eater could do as a red dragon for 24 hours. Think of a beholder!

But it gets better.

At 9th level, a Soul Eater can transform completely drained creatures into wights under their command. No other stipulations.

The template is hard to find, but an example appears in Dragon #300. Wights can be any creatures except constructs, oozes and undead. They gain an energy drain attack and can create spawn. They also get a bunch of stat bonuses, including a +4 to Charisma, which is great for SLA-wielding creatures.

While this is Dragon material, which makes me doubt its usability, it's the only reference to a wight template I could find. But even if the BoVD meant wights as in "humanoid monster wights," like those in the Monster Manual, this is fantastic!

Now, at will, a Soul Eater can cause a Wightpocalypse. There is no restriction on the number of wights they can control directly, and no limit on the number those wights can control. Admittedly, the secondary wights are rather lackluster, having only create spawn and energy drain, but the sheer power of the Soul Eater is incredible. And this is before the capstone!

At 10th level, a Soul Eater gains a +2 profane bonus to the save DCs of its supernatural and SLAs. In addition, the abilities can be used twice as often as normal. This lasts for 24 hours after an Energy Drain. For our base creatures, this only applies to the force beam effect, but that's still two 10d6 force beams per day. For creatures with powerful supernatural or spell-like abilities, this is absolutely insane. 6/day and 2/day SLAs, several of which I can imagine would wreak utter havoc on a game, would become constant problems, lasting as long as creatures around the Soul Eater had levels to drain.

Conclusion: This Monster's on Fire (And That One Over There. And That One...)

The Soul Eater is godlike levels of cheese past 5th level. A typical player would obtain unfettered minionmancy at level 15 or so, and if I'm right about monstrous humanoid HD and BAB bonuses, you could see this at level 10!

This is why I don't recommend anyone but villains get this PrC. DMs know how to keep the game fun, and total apocalypse via create spawn(Su) is not fun for most people. If you discuss limitations with your DM, and promise them (and me) not to abuse the shapechange and wight abilities, it can be quite fun for everyone involved.

The main challenge in such a character would come, not from the build (because Soul Eaters function well on everything), but from the level adjustment any monster would bring. If you want to do more than touch people and use your monster powers for 5 levels, you will need to invest in other classes. That is where the balancing act comes in, and that's what makes this prestige class so interesting from an optimizer's perspective, in my opinion.



Thanks for reading. I hope this guide was insightful and helpful.

(As a side note, I realized that almost every class and PrC I've ever encountered has Concentration, Craft, and Profession as class skills. Nice of WoTC to put in a word for the trades.)

That is all.

Uvexar
2019-04-02, 10:12 PM
I'm going to go make a gestalt Mind Flayer Soul Eater + something else now.

Thurbane
2019-04-02, 10:19 PM
I was once working on a Soul EaterMoI/Favored SoulCD/Soul EaterBoVD build for the Villainous Completion once... :smallbiggrin:

Not very PC friendly though; still, fun as an encounter!

NontheistCleric
2019-04-02, 10:27 PM
There's a first-party Wight template in Savage Species, but it can only be applied to humanoids.

Deadline
2019-04-02, 10:35 PM
Importantly, you need the Weapon Focus (any 1 natural weapon) feat, and need to be non-humanoid type. That means there are tons more race options than you are mentioning. The Elan (Aberration type) from Expanded Psionics Handbook would do it. So would a Goliath (Races of Stone), and a Killoren (Races of the Wild), or a Tiefling or Aasimar (Monster Manual). There are also many more. Yes, none of these has a native natural weapon, but you can gain one of those in a variety of ways. There are numerous feats, templates, and spells that grant a natural weapon. Any non-humanoid type race who uses one of these would qualify. The alignment restriction is easy, because it isn't an alignment subtype, just your alignment. Given that any race can be any alignment (because Always X doesn't actually mean always), this is the least restrictive pre-req.

The usual cheese for Soul Eaters revolves around the decision on whether or not their Energy Drain ability can be used multiple times per round. It's not so bad if it can't, but wildly broken if it can. The argument boils down to the Soul Eater Energy Drain ability having the (Su) tag, and no provision on the type of action it takes. With no provision changing the type of action, it would use the default for (Su) abilities, which is a standard action, meaning only once per round. The other side of the argument says that it can be done with a touch attack, which means that you can bestow one negative level per touch attack you can make per round.

I submitted a Soul Eater build (a wyrmling Steel Dragon by the name of Lady Gray) for the Talon of Tiamat round of the Iron Chef Optimization in the Playground competition, and there was some discussion on how the Energy Drain ability should be considered.

It's a decent PrC, but not necessarily as broken as you seem to indicate (at least, there are several other classes who can achieve similar results without jumping through the hoops for this PrC). If you use the multiple Energy Drain attacks in a round interpretation, then yeah it's probably more broken. :smallsmile:

Uvexar
2019-04-02, 11:12 PM
Deadline, I think the fact that the Soul Eater can create a Wightpocalypse, RAW, is cheese enough, without getting into the debate over the energy draining touch. Having an at-will shapechange is just as good.

But the energy drain debate is something I seem to have missed. I'll add it in.

Bphill561
2019-04-02, 11:29 PM
Nice to see the start of a soul eater handbook, most of the posts I have seen are mainly asking for builds.

Some of my favorites...

Anthropomorphic animals from savage species are all monstrous humanoids, often with natural attacks. The Baleen Whale in particular makes for a good entry with no level adjustment (but full BAB HD).

If regional feats from forgotten realms are possible, the Otherworldly feat makes you into a native outsider. It is a great way to enter the class as a human. Similarly things like dragon-wrought feats can change your type.

You are already evil. Many people have suggested fiend folio fiendish grafts as a cheap means to gain a natural attack. More expensive undead grafts are also interesting, but would have to occur much later in a character build based on standard wealth based on level.

Savage progressions broke templates up into class levels and they do not have to be completed. The Half-fiend template grants 2 claw attacks and the outsider type for entry requirements at the first level. Also I enjoy advancing these template classes with uncanny trickster for less LA and a nice spread of skills and skill points. To bad the other template that could be useful, half-dragon, does not grant the dragon type until level 3.
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a

A much better spawn to create is spectral creatures with the Create Spectral Spawn feat from the Dragon of Faerun web enhancement. You only need a energy drain special ability and you can create much better creatures. This also allows you to skip the last two levels of the class if you have something else in mind. Extra supernatural ability uses won't be all that useful in many builds.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070425a

Summoned creatures are not immune to energy drain. Bag of Tricks from the DMG summons random animals 10 times a week. The Gray bag only costs 900gp and the animal lasts for 10 minutes, giving you plenty of time to pet for a drain effect to get your ability score bonuses for the day.

I would not list not being able to cast spells a drawback of the class, that is sort of like saying you should only ever play a caster ignore all other classes. This class does have the advantage of needing less gear with it's built in ability score boost. Useful in a low magic campaign. A real drawback is technically it drains with a touch, not touch attack. I would get a pair of gloves if you plan on shaking anyone's hand.


Speaking of ability scores, I think I have posted this build before using some of these idea's.

Baleen whale 3HD/ Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Souleater 8/Half-dragon template class 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/ Warshaper 3

Because of the touch drain thing, I would pick a Shadow Dragon for it's immunity to Energy drain just for good measure. No self level draining while blowing your nose.

Falontani
2019-04-02, 11:42 PM
All I'm going to say is:
1. Warforged are a living nonhumanoid race with an innate natural attack and a +0 la.
2. Unarmed strikes count as natural weapons, and all non humanoid races are proficient with them.
3. Monks exist.
4. Dragonwrought Kobold is a living nonhumanoid race with innate natural attacks and la +0.
5. Familiars grant you alertness for free, making Hexblade the easiest entry into the class.
6. Enhancement bonuses to saves are rare and +2 is powerful.

Deadline
2019-04-03, 12:46 AM
Deadline, I think the fact that the Soul Eater can create a Wightpocalypse, RAW, is cheese enough, without getting into the debate over the energy draining touch. Having an at-will shapechange is just as good.

But the energy drain debate is something I seem to have missed. I'll add it in.

Sure, but isn't that the default outcome for anything that can inflict negative levels? If I'm not completely off on that, then anything capable of inflicting negative levels can do it. Spellcasters with the Fell Drain feat (or a spell that inflicts negative levels) can do it, many types of undead (some of which can be created through spells) can do it, and rebuking clerics can rebuke a spawn creating undead to do it. Wightpocalypse is certainly bad (and likely game breaking), but I'm not sure it's grounds for dismissing the class outright. That's more of a "killing things with negative levels is broken", not "Soul Eater is broken".

The Shapechange is less problematic, because you have to be able to kill what you want to turn into, so you'll be roughly on par with whatever it is power-wise before you can do it successfully and consistently. Again, it's good, but I'd be cautious about overselling it. I mean, you should take a look at Truenamer. That class gets Gate at-will (at 20th level I think), but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks it's broken (well, it's broken as in the class doesn't work properly, not due to the Gate ability).

Edit - Oooh, nice Falontani, I forgot about the Warforged slam attack. That makes them solid choices right out of the box. Soul sucking robots!

AlanBruce
2019-04-03, 05:21 AM
Troglodyte: +2 LA. -2 to Dex and Int but +4 to Con. Darkvision, +4 natural armor, Multiattack feat, Stench, and bonuses to Hiding. Comes with 2 HD. Has two claw attacks (1d4 each) and a bite (1d4). The Dex and Int penalties hurt a little, and what you get afterwards isn't all that great in comparison to other +2 races. Plus, you're a troglodyte.

Reading up on the Soul Eater PrC, it requires any living non humanoid, detailing that monstrous humanoids are a go. However, the troglodyte has the following type:


Medium Humanoid (Reptilian)

It may not look like a human or humanoid, like an elf or dwarf, but the type is clear cut. Reason why many humanoid PC casters use the troglodyte as their go to form when casting Alter Self.

gkathellar
2019-04-03, 06:57 AM
Re: Energy Drain not taking an action, I'm pretty sure that any ability without a stated action defaults to standard. This rule is best applied on a case-by-case basis, since it makes a certain number of abilities that are clearly not intended to take any action useless, but it may be worth mentioning as RAW.

Uvexar
2019-04-03, 08:16 AM
Thank you to everyone for all the feedback. I have some edits to make, but I'll be updating the guide shortly.

Efrate
2019-04-03, 08:56 AM
Dusklings from MoI are extraplanar fey, make great totemists which gives a ton of natural attacks.

Zaq
2019-04-03, 09:17 AM
The thing about the action economy issue is that it’s hard to find a middle ground. Negative levels actually aren’t that great if your whole turn is spent just inflicting 1 or 2 of them. By mid-levels, most foes can absorb a reasonable handful before they’re totally ineffective. Most negative level cheese either involves getting them really early on (e.g., Fell Drain with metamagic reducers), stacking a ton all at once (e.g., wandificers with enervation as a pet spell), or inflicting them casually in the middle of doing other things (e.g., the permissive reading of soul eater that tacks them onto everything you do).

Yes, negative levels matter. But if you’re spending a standard action and just inflicting 1 or 2, I feel like you’re often not having much effect on a CR-appropriate foe outside of the very early game. Every -1 adds up, but it’s not OMG overpowered or even especially optimal much of the time. When is putting a -1 on one target worth your whole turn?

In contrast, of course, the permissive reading NOT endorsed by this guide (that all your natural attacks have a negative level rider) is clearly OP. Kind of challenging to balance, in my mind. Maybe a ruling that you still get your attack routine, but you can inflict 1 (or 2) negative levels if you hit 1 or more times?

Telonius
2019-04-03, 09:40 AM
Another way to get in: the Draconic template (LA +1) from Draconomicon grants a claw attack. You could apply it to any corporeal creature except Dragons; that would include any 0- or 1-LA Outsiders or Fey (like Tieflings, Aasimar, and their Lesser versions).

weckar
2019-04-03, 10:12 AM
If weapon focus in a natural weapon is the issue, be reminded that you do not need to HAVE a natural weapon to gain proficiency in it.

As for good races, The Doppelganger will fly at most tables and is basically a human when it wants to be.

Segev
2019-04-03, 10:27 AM
Fluff-wise, the requirements for Soul Eater include undergoing a profane ritual, right?

The requirements to become an Elan involve a psychic ritual, as well. What if...it went wrong?

An Elan Wilder->Soul Eater would need some feats for natural weapons, but could get Alertness as part of picking up Psicrystal Afinity (so at least cutting part of the feat cost by getting a twofer). Elan are more natural as Psions, who get a bonus feat at 1 and 5, though you're now concentrating on Int and Cha when Cha is already penalized. Wilder also gives 3/4 BAB. You might be able to justify Claws of the Beast (as Wilder or as Psychic Warrior) qualifying as "natural weapons."

Monk, too, gives 3/4 BAB, and comes with Unarmed Strikes that count as natural weapons.

You'd think Soul Knife would have a full BAB, given its lack of any non-fightery tricks, but it doesn't, meaning it's really not worth considering here. Pity, too, because there's a lot of flavor in a soul knife soul eater elan who uses his soul-sucking blades as his "natural weapon" to dine on the souls of his victims.

A boost-focused Warblade (possibly built off of Warforged) might be a good Soul Eater, too. The Warforged could even be a Cryxian (or similar necro-focused mad inventor) creation designed expressly to become a Soul Eater.

Falontani
2019-04-03, 10:49 AM
The thing about the action economy issue is that it’s hard to find a middle ground. Negative levels actually aren’t that great if your whole turn is spent just inflicting 1 or 2 of them. By mid-levels, most foes can absorb a reasonable handful before they’re totally ineffective. Most negative level cheese either involves getting them really early on (e.g., Fell Drain with metamagic reducers), stacking a ton all at once (e.g., wandificers with enervation as a pet spell), or inflicting them casually in the middle of doing other things (e.g., the permissive reading of soul eater that tacks them onto everything you do).

Yes, negative levels matter. But if you’re spending a standard action and just inflicting 1 or 2, I feel like you’re often not having much effect on a CR-appropriate foe outside of the very early game. Every -1 adds up, but it’s not OMG overpowered or even especially optimal much of the time. When is putting a -1 on one target worth your whole turn?

In contrast, of course, the permissive reading NOT endorsed by this guide (that all your natural attacks have a negative level rider) is clearly OP. Kind of challenging to balance, in my mind. Maybe a ruling that you still get your attack routine, but you can inflict 1 (or 2) negative levels if you hit 1 or more times?

I personally believe it should work like vampire energy drain or wight energy drain. Vampire energy drain is tacked into natural attacks, but is limited to once per round it may activate.

That gives soul eater a good amount of Power without making them too powerful, or making their trick absolute crap.

Segev
2019-04-03, 10:59 AM
I personally believe it should work like vampire energy drain or wight energy drain. Vampire energy drain is tacked into natural attacks, but is limited to once per round it may activate.

That gives soul eater a good amount of Power without making them too powerful, or making their trick absolute crap.

Given the requirement of a natural attack to get into the class, assigning the energy drain (Su) ability to triggering on a natural attack seems logical.

Malphegor
2019-04-03, 10:59 AM
isn't the necrotic reserve feat powered by energy drain? There's probably something in that to improve this horrible creature that is beefy as hell draining you of your energy, and even if you outright pulp it to bits, it still gets up, albeit slightly staggering.

The soul radiance giving you 24 hour shapechange sounds fun though. Kinda like a limited duration version of the corrupt spell Consume Likeness but with proper ability gai- wait. KILL A GENIE, EAT A GENIE, BECOME A GENIE.

interesting. I am totally not eager to play one of these in a more cracky game one day.

NontheistCleric
2019-04-03, 11:25 AM
isn't the necrotic reserve feat powered by energy drain? There's probably something in that to improve this horrible creature that is beefy as hell draining you of your energy, and even if you outright pulp it to bits, it still gets up, albeit slightly staggering.

Necrotic Reserve only works once a day, though, so it's actually useless most of the time. If an undead (and the feat benefits are only relevant to undead) is being reduced to 0 or fewer hit points, Necrotic Reserve is likely to do no more than stave off destruction for one more round, if even that.

Thurbane
2019-04-03, 02:51 PM
Improved Energy Drain feat + Spell Drain feat + Fell Drain + Locate City bomb = profit!

A single level in Soul Eater lets you take Improved Energy Drain. The Spell Drain feat doesn't state that negative level you inflict to drain a spell has to come from your innate energy drain ability...

If the Locate City bomb is too cheesy for you, you can stick to more traditional energy draining spells...

Deadline
2019-04-03, 03:41 PM
Improved Energy Drain feat + Spell Drain feat + Fell Drain + Locate City bomb = profit!

Where do Improved Energy Drain and Spell Drain come from? Not sure I've ever seen them before.

remetagross
2019-04-03, 05:18 PM
Both are from Libris Mortis. Improved Energy Drain grants a stackable +1 bonus to attack rolls, skill and ability checks and saves for 1 hour each time you use your Energy Drain ability, while Spell Drain allows you to cast once the spells that are drained out of a caster's mind due to the effect of your Energy Drain.