War Cleric Archer Help

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

I just started a new game recently and got nudged by the DM into being a Cleric (party didn't really have any support) and a Half Drow (the party just reached a Drow village, so it was the easiest way to get me into the game story-wise). I wanted to be a ranged attacker and use a Longbow, so I went with War Cleric. I started at level 3 and was given a free feat, which I used for Sharpshooter.

Half Drow War Cleric (level 3): 8, 16, 14, 10, 16 , 10, Sharpshooter as a free feat. DM seems against UA material (unless it's specific to Eberron? They were adamant against it, but I'm in a party with a Warforged and a Changeling).

When I picked War Cleric, for some reason my brain convinced me that they got extra attack, but after making the character and doing the first session, I looked over it again and realized that they, of course, do not. Their bonus action attack is nice, but it's only 3 time per long rest for me at the moment (at which point I guess I'd switch to spiritual weapon). I still want to be primarily a support archer, though, since I've started fleshing out his backstory and it makes sense to me (I'm a village hunter and a follower of Vulkoor's Hunter aspect).

I have a few options. The first is to suck it up and make do with just the normal longbow attack + bonus action attacks and be primarily a cleric. This appeals to me the least, simply 'cause I just finished a game where I played a melee cleric that spent most of his time casting spiritual guardians/spiritual weapon. It felt too passive to me, despite being a good combo.

The second is to multiclass into Fighter or Ranger for 3 levels to get some improvements on my Archery skills (BM for Action Surge + Precision attack, Gloomstalker/Horizon Walker/Hunter for their goodies). The Ranger mulitclasses appeal to me the most, for their more limited impact on spell progression. Not sure if Gloomstalker/Horizon Walker/or Hunter is better mechanically, though. Gloomstalker gets invisibility to darkvision, better initiative, and an extra attack at the start of initiative + damage to that attack. Horizon Walker gets bonus action force damage (doesn't seem to play nice with War Cleric bonus actions). Hunter gets either extra damage once a turn to an injured target (kind of an early divine strike), or an extra attack on enemies that are within 5 feet of each other. My gut says the Gloom Stalker and Horde Breaker extra attacks are better, but I don't have anything to back that up.

Third option is to go 5 levels into a martial class for extra attack. Fighter appeals to me less here, as Ranger would still give me a 9th level spell slot despite having only 8th level spells (not that we'd get that far anyway). The question here is if grabbing Misty Step is worth going the Horizon Walker route. Gloomstalker and Hunter still stick out to me here. Going 5 levels into Ranger would also net me Healing Spirit and Pass Without Trace.

The first thing my brain jumped to was to ask the DM if I could respec a little to be War Cleric 1/Ranger 2, then level Ranger until 5, pick up extra attack and Ranger goodies, then go back to Cleric for the rest of the time. If I can't respec, I'd just take Ranger to 5 from this point, which means I'd get extra attack at level 8. I'm just curious how worthwhile this whole endeavor is.

Bonus question: The DM asked me to compile a "wish list" of 3 magic items of each rarity that would get selected between at certain points for magic item rewards. What are some good items to grab ask for? Oathbow, Displacement Cloak, Spider Climb Boots, and Prayer Beads immediately jumped out at me as being handy for ranged archery clerics (flying items seem like a no go for now).

[Agent-KI7KO]

If you suck it up, consider a Heavy Xbow.

War Priest ignores Loading and lets you fire twice a turn.

Guided Strike also works well with the -5 penalty on sharpshooter.

It’s not optimal, but it works.

[Crgaston]

Do you have the Cha to go Valor Bard? You’d keep your full slot progression, get Extra Attack eventually, and gain some good support spells/abilities in the process.

[ImproperJustice]

I think the cheif problem here is that your GM beleives in the fallacy that a Cleric is required for successful play and he forced you into a character you don’t want to play.

Respec as an Archer and play what will be fun for you.

The party will adapt and be fine.

Out party made it to 8th level without a Cleric just fine, and the only reason we gained one was because a player wanted to play a Cleric.

There is nothing worse than spending 4-6 hours a week playing a game as something you don’t like.


Worst case scenario, MC into five levels of fighter.

[CTurbo]

I'd take 5 levels of Ranger for Archery Style, extra attack, and other Ranger goodies. Either Hunter or Gloom Stalker would work. You'd get 2 attacks and the extra bonus attack Wis times per rest.

Gloom Stalker gets you a super powered first turn and extra night vision. Hunter gets you Colossus Slayer or Horde Breaker both of which are strong for archers.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think the cheif problem here is that your GM beleives in the fallacy that a Cleric is required for successful play and he forced you into a character you don’t want to play.
Agreed. A Valor Bard can provide just as much support as most Clerics-- if not more-- and be an accomplished archer to boot.

Support? Inspiration Dice can boost ability checks, attacks, saves, damage, or AC-- aka "pretty much everything." Spells like Faerie Fire and Enhance Ability are good from 1-20.
Healing? You've got Cure Wounds, Healing Word, both Restorations, Song of Rest, the stats to take Inspiring Leader... you can do fine.
Archery? You get martial weapon proficiency at 3rd, Extra Attack at 6th, and the ability to cast-and-shoot at 14th-- a solid start-- and at 10th you use Magical Secrets to steal awesome archery spells like Swift Quiver and Lightning Arrow. You'll do just fine.


If you can't respec, War Cleric 3/Ranger 5 is solid. You're pushing Extra Attack back, which isn't great, but War Priest and Spiritual Weapon should help quite a bit. I wouldn't go with Horizon Walker-- you'll have a lot of uses for your bonus action already-- but Gloomstalker and Hunter are both solid choices, depending on what sort of encounters your DM throws. Dread Ambusher will shine with lots of small quick fights; Colossus Slayer with do best in extended battles, and Horde Breaker if they enjoy waves of little guys or bad guys in formations. Don't go for Hunter's Mark if you're only taking one shot a turn, incidentally-- Bless will be a better use of your Concentration, especially with Sharpshooter.

[Citan]

Hi all ;)

@OP: I'd suggest option 4: pick Crossbow Expert at level 4.
To formulate in another way...

1. How often is the actual range of longbow really useful?
With Sharpshooter which you have, effective range of a hand crossbow is 120 feet. Imx, in most fights this is enough to be comfortable. Only notable exception in my eyes are flyers in open sky, or sieging a fortress.


2. How much do you think you'd use bonus action on spells?
At level 3 and until level 6-7, you probably will be sparing your slots, so SPiritual Weapon maybe once per day, and 1st level for either Bless or Healing Words.

In short, you should not have that often bonus action competition with spells.

---> IMO the true question you should ask yourself is: how high I'm interested to go into Cleric?
If there are higher level features that you really want, pick CE and stick Cleric.
If there are mid/high level features that you like but you're fine with waiting a long time for them, then multiclass as soon as you are Cleric level 6-7.
If you actually wanted to be a martial, switch to multiclass as soon as level 5 and come back into Cleric if your party really needs it.

Alternatives: if reshaping character is on the table, go straigth Ranger, you'll get Healing Spirit and Pass Without Trace at level 5, two among the ~10 best party spells (rituals aside).

Or as some suggested, Valor Bard, which is probably a near-perfect fit for you as Grod the Giant detailed: DM is satisfied because you can support party well with BI/Healing Words, you are satisfied because you have Extra Attack, and the Magic Secrets at level 10 will give you some margin to strengthen the martial aspect of your character should you wish so.

[strangebloke]

Agreed. A Valor Bard can provide just as much support as most Clerics-- if not more-- and be an accomplished archer to boot.

Support? Inspiration Dice can boost ability checks, attacks, saves, damage, or AC-- aka "pretty much everything." Spells like Faerie Fire and Enhance Ability are good from 1-20.
Healing? You've got Cure Wounds, Healing Word, both Restorations, Song of Rest, the stats to take Inspiring Leader... you can do fine.
Archery? You get martial weapon proficiency at 3rd, Extra Attack at 6th, and the ability to cast-and-shoot at 14th-- a solid start-- and at 10th you use Magical Secrets to steal awesome archery spells like Swift Quiver and Lightning Arrow. You'll do just fine.


If you can't respec, War Cleric 3/Ranger 5 is solid. You're pushing Extra Attack back, which isn't great, but War Priest and Spiritual Weapon should help quite a bit. I wouldn't go with Horizon Walker-- you'll have a lot of uses for your bonus action already-- but Gloomstalker and Hunter are both solid choices, depending on what sort of encounters your DM throws. Dread Ambusher will shine with lots of small quick fights; Colossus Slayer with do best in extended battles, and Horde Breaker if they enjoy waves of little guys or bad guys in formations. Don't go for Hunter's Mark if you're only taking one shot a turn, incidentally-- Bless will be a better use of your Concentration, especially with Sharpshooter.

Grod's got your number here. Respec to Valor bard if you can, as that's way, way closer to the concept you're going for. If you can't, ranger levels are the way to go here. Personally I'm a huge fan of hunter->horde breaker, especially with sharpshooter. I'd say you have two really solid options here.

Cleric 6/Ranger 3/Cleric X.

You're a cleric who can attack 1-3 times a turn with sharpshooter. Your damage will be very respectable for a caster, but not anything crazy. Without considering things like the Oathbow, you will probably be best off with crossbow expert, as it will make you a lot more consistent.

Getting to cleric 5 also satisfies the nearest reason why a party might actually "need" a cleric: For the revivify spell.

Cleric 3/Ranger X
Rangers are a support class, so you're good on that front. Pump DEX with your next ASI (possibly go to level four in cleric) and focus on the spells you can upcast, like spiritual weapon. Probably no need to grab Cbow expert here, you'll be better off just pumping DEX. Don't worry about hunter's mark too much, you'll be much better off with bless + spiritual weapon. Level 8(Ranger 5) is going to be a massive level in this build, as that's where you'll start getting good spells again and you'll have your second attack more consistently.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Agreed. A Valor Bard can provide just as much support as most Clerics-- if not more-- and be an accomplished archer to boot.

...

If you can't respec, War Cleric 3/Ranger 5 is solid. You're pushing Extra Attack back, which isn't great, but War Priest and Spiritual Weapon should help quite a bit.

When I was first parsing Archer concepts, Valor Bard was actually one of my first jumps for what I wanted to do as well. I strayed a bit from, though, since I have a level 8 glamour Bard that's also support focused and I wanted to branch out a bit. Might look into it anyway, though, since it feels like the playstyle would be vastly different. I might be stuck with at least one Cleric level, though, since that's tied into what we're doing and my background, but Bard might make sense, since it specifically says that Vulkoor's followers are both hunters and storytellers that tell tales of great hunts and glory and such. Unsure how I'd build a Cleric/Bard though. It feels kind of MAD on top of the archery.

I'll keep cleric/ranger in my back pocket in case I can't respec. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't screwing myself with that and was trying to get an idea of what ranger archetype would be the best fit for the build, since I don't have a ton of ranger experience.

[RingoBongo]

I am doing this right now! Though GM did allow warpriest to also work after spell attacks (house rule). I took Lizardfolk and I am more Wis/con. Dex is the 3rd, but there are lots of magic items in my campaign that help bridge the to hit gap and make weapon damage comparable to cantrips use.

I am cleric 7 right now, but after 8 I am going for ranger 5. Hunter with hoarde breaker. I took +2 Wis at 4 and taking warcaster at 8. Sharpshooter is on my list, maybe for 3rd ASI. With ranger 5 I get 4 spells and I decided I will take hail of thorns, zephyr strike, longstrider's, and spike growth. (Imagine spike growth on top of gaurdian of faith!)

Also, I'll be able to reach a 9th level spell slot as well.

Anyways I got a Swiss army knife of concentration spells and can pull out some good single target dpr and can great aoe DPR. I figured I'd leave single target damage to my allies.

I'm sure drow has some good synergy with the race spells. But with Lizardfolk as an Archer you can also sit back until the end of an encounter and use hungry jaws+ guided strike to eat up some temp hp that can carry over to the next encounter, stacking even.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It feels kind of MAD on top of the archery.
Str 8/Dex 16/Con 12/Int 8/Wis 14/Cha 16 works for a Drow, and should do you in fine stead. ASIs should probably be prioritized as Cha>Dex>Wis>Con>Str/Int.