Tiny Servant Lore Bard - FINALLY A Magic Stone Build That Works!

[Doccit]

Hey guys! I've been thinking a lot about tiny servant lately and thought I'd share my main finding - a build that is somewhat powerful for its level.

Lore Bard 6
As your magical secrets, take Tiny Servant and Magic Stone! Animate 3 servants with your 3rd level slots (when you hit level 7, this becomes much less costly as it only takes a single 4th level slot to summon three servants). Make them slings for thematic fun! Give them the following standing command: Hide in my backpack (total cover?) on your turn in combat, move out of the backpack, take a magic stone from my hand if you see one and attack the nearest enemy with it, and then retreat back into the backpack.

On your turn, do whatever with your action, and summon the stones with your bonus action. Your servants will chuck the stones for a potential 3d6+12 damage (assuming 18 CHA). That is 22.5 average damage with a bonus action every round for the whole day!

Variant Human Lore Bard 6
But as with all things it seems, a Variant Human can do it better. As your bonus feat, take magic initiate Warlock. Grab Magic Stone and Toll the Dead as cantrips, and whatever you please as your 1/day spell. This opens up an extra magical secrets slot as a 6th level lore bard that you can spend on Fog Cloud!

An unconventional choice to be sure. But the tiny servants have BLINDSIGHT! Now they're attacking at advantage for the cost of a 1st level spell slot. As you get to higher levels, if you want to summon more than three tiny servants this tactic gets even better. While the first three can do the Magic Stone thing, the rest will swarm the enemy and make slam attacks. With fog cloud for support, all attacks against them are made at disadvantage, the slam attacks are made at advantage, and it becomes much harder to target them with spells, which is a Tiny Servant's biggest weakness.

On rounds when you aren't using your action on fog cloud, toll the dead is a much more reliable damage spell. So at level 6, your damage in a round where you use toll the dead and make three magic stone attacks is 35.5. None too shabby! Especially for a lore bard, who normally struggles with at-will damage.

This would also work as a non-variant human if you just took magic initiate instead of your 4th level ASI, or dipped Warlock for a level.

Even without this tactic, Tiny Servant is a great magical secret
Animate musical instruments! Be followed around by a hoard of tambourines. Or do what I did in a recent game and animate pieces of Chalk and scrawl graffiti all over the walls of the dungeon depicting your heroic deeds. Animate a grappling hook and tie a rope to it for a substitute rope of climbing. Animate crowbars and never again be bothered with the indignity of prying apart chests and doors personally. It is my favourite spell!

Anyway, what do you think about the strategy? Do you guys have any fun Tiny Servant tactics or stories to share?

[KorvinStarmast]

This sounds like a load of fun.

[Wildarm]

YMMV on if that counts as a simple general command for them to follow(they only have 2 Int) but it sounds like a lot fun if your DM allows it. As a DM I'd rule it takes your bonus action each round to direct them for a complicated command like this. Very similar to Animate Objects.

Also, expect to eat a AOE attack or something hacking at your backpack sooner rather than later if an opponent saw you try that trick. A backpack has a pretty low AC and HP total and the servants inside are not much tougher.

It's interesting to compare Animate Objects with Tiny Servants

5th Level Animate Objects:
10x Tiny Flying objects HP: 20, AC: 18, Attack: +8 to hit, 1d4 + 4 damage - Lasts 1 Minute

5th Level Tiny Servants:
5x Tiny Walking Objects HP:10 AC: 15, Attack: +5 to hit, 1d4 + 3 damage - Lasts 8 hours

Something to be said for using tiny servants all day long vs the already great animate objects. Lose fly and half the damage output but no concentration and lasts 8 hours! Bonus points for taking advantage of their blindsight ability. I think you'd still need to be able to see the enemies to direct them though. Bard 6/Warlock 2 /w Devils sight would work well but that's a hard hit to your caster progression for this trick.

[Aaedimus]

I like it.

[JackPhoenix]

That order would be non-viable as general command (check the examples from the spell, yours is highly specific compared to that), and also invalid because it relies on wording that doesn't have any meaning in-fiction ("your turn in combat"), and knowledge the servants wouldn't have (what counts as "enemy"?)

[Doccit]

Well alright, maybe the command is arguably too complicated. But "Sit on my shoulder and throw stones at the people I'm attacking" should be simple enough and not make them too vulnerable. Maybe even "Hide behind me and throw stones at the people I'm attacking" would work to give some kind of defensive advantage.

[diplomancer]

My DM gave the ok for it. I will try it out and see how it goes.

[Damon_Tor]

IIRC, the current build of the Artificer has both Magic Stone and Tiny Servant. And he's got the tool proficiencies to justify being able to build a shoulder-mounted, fortified platform (ie, 3/4 cover when firing, full cover otherwise) for the little buggers right into your armor, even probably a simple magazine which pops three stones up where you could touch them as soon as the last three are taken.

Even with the strictest interpretation of what constitutes a "simple, general command" for something like this, getting three 1d6+Int spell attacks for two bonus actions is ahead of the curve, and doesn't require any feats at all, just spell slots for making the servants.

[samcifer]

Couldn't a druid with Magic Stone and Conjure animals to get monkeys do this too?

[Vulsutyr]

Maybe an Artificer-made magic item that could run 8 hours a day? A machine gun? Very powerful, but in spell terms quite simple. One 4th level slot per day, and the ability to cast a single cantrip. Compared to many other items, it’s extremely simple. One minute to start up, and then 8 hours of unlimited firing as long as the operator kept dropping stones in.

[MaxWilson]

Out of curiosity: why is this a Lore Bard build and not just a regular wizard? IIRC both Magic Stone and Tiny Servant are on the wizard spell list, and of course Fog Cloud/Darkness/Stinking Cloud/Sleet Storm are too.

[nickl_2000]

Out of curiosity: why is this a Lore Bard build and not just a regular wizard? IIRC both Magic Stone and Tiny Servant are on the wizard spell list, and of course Fog Cloud/Darkness/Stinking Cloud/Sleet Storm are too.

Dnd beyond says druid, warlock, and artificer only

[Potato_Priest]

Nice find! It’s effective, and I wouldn’t even say it’s over powered given how easy it is to shut down with even the mildest AOE spells.

[MaxWilson]

Dnd beyond says druid, warlock, and artificer only

Ah, then my memory was just wrong. Thanks.

Now I'm imagining a Moon Druid in wild shape who's being ridden by three tiny sporks animated by his wizard buddy, and who spends his bonus action every turn enchanting stones for them to throw. (Requires 18th level, so not really realistic, just amusing to imagine.)

The other, more realistic variant: warlock with Danse Macabre. Each turn, Eldritch Blast with your action + Magic Stone with bonus action. 3/5 of your skeletons get to attack at +12 for d6+10, the other 2/5 attack at +9 for d6+7, in addition to (Agonizing, Repelling) Eldritch Blast (Spear) (of Lethargy) damage.

[BarneyBent]

One issue is that your servants will need to be within stone-fetching range at all times, making you very vulnerable to AoE damage.

Which got me thinking - you can cast “touch” spells at range through a familiar. The Magic Stone spell says you touch 1-3 stones. Is it feasible, RAW, that a familiar could touch one stone, then move, touch another, move, and then touch another, all as part of casting the same spell?

If so, you could arrange your servants spread out enough from both each other and you to provide some redundancy against Fireballs, etc, provided it’s within your familiar’s total speed.

It comes online later, but a Lore Bard 6/Chainlock 3 could be much harder to negate, Agonizing EB on top of your magic stones.

Alternatively, just straight Chainlock for Danse Macabre. Both come online at level 9 so whatever.

[Damon_Tor]

Which got me thinking - you can cast “touch” spells at range through a familiar. The Magic Stone spell says you touch 1-3 stones. Is it feasible, RAW, that a familiar could touch one stone, then move, touch another, move, and then touch another, all as part of casting the same spell?

Seems extra unlikely based on the way casting through the familiar works: the familiar has its own turn where it takes its move action, and it's using its reaction to cast the touch spell for you.

[Malifice]

I thought this was another take on the Sorcerer King again.

[Vulsutyr]

I thought this was another take on the Sorcerer King again.

My lord, that guy is incredibly annoying.

[samcifer]

Ah, then my memory was just wrong. Thanks.

Now I'm imagining a Moon Druid in wild shape who's being ridden by three tiny sporks animated by his wizard buddy, and who spends his bonus action every turn enchanting stones for them to throw. (Requires 18th level, so not really realistic, just amusing to imagine.)

The other, more realistic variant: warlock with Danse Macabre. Each turn, Eldritch Blast with your action + Magic Stone with bonus action. 3/5 of your skeletons get to attack at +12 for d6+10, the other 2/5 attack at +9 for d6+7, in addition to (Agonizing, Repelling) Eldritch Blast (Spear) (of Lethargy) damage.

Actually, a Wizard with decent Wisdom or Charisma (if you want to have social skills as well as the widest range of spellcasting of any class) who takes Magic Initiate could do this without multi-classing unless you choose from the Artificer spell list for a single casting stat.

[BarneyBent]

Seems extra unlikely based on the way casting through the familiar works: the familiar has its own turn where it takes its move action, and it's using its reaction to cast the touch spell for you.

Yeah, I mean the whole casting with a familiar thing is stupidly written to begin. But what if your familiar readied their movement?

I suspect it’s not RAW to allow a familiar to use their reaction to both move and deliver spells, but otherwise you’re stuck in a situation where your familiar can literally only deliver a spell during combat by pre-positioning themselves, and that just seems ridiculous.

[Damon_Tor]

Yeah, I mean the whole casting with a familiar thing is stupidly written to begin. But what if your familiar readied their movement?

It has to use its reaction to cast your spell for you, it can't also use its action to move.

[BarneyBent]

It has to use its reaction to cast your spell for you, it can't also use its action to move.

Ugh. I was hoping that the Ready rules gave some ambiguity as to whether you could both take an action and move using your reaction, in which case you could argue the familiar could both deliver the spell and move using the one reaction. But it’s fairly clear it’s either/or. I hate the familiar spell delivery rules. I thinknin my game I’ll houserule that familiars act on your initiative and can use their action to deliver spells. Makes everything so much simpler and sensible.

I suppose you could just cast magic stone on stones in a pouch carried by your familiar and have your familiar ready an action to move to each one (the servants could then retrieve them from the pouch as they pass so all the familiar has to do is a set movement routine). That would rely on an interpretation of your familiar’s reaction occurring on your turn, therefore the servants can take the magic stones while the familiar passes by. A generous (ok probably plain incorrect) interpretation RAW, but one that makes sense in reality so maybe?

This is all quite complicated but I feel like if you can make the magic stone/minion shenanigans work without all parties having to be closely grouped together and vulnerable to Fireballs/other AoEs it’s absolutely worthwhile.

Of course, a smart player would just keep this strategy for enemies that don’t have spells/breath weapons/etc and do something else for other enemies, but shuddup.

[Kane0]

Bonus points if the tiny servants sitting on your shoulders are angel/devil flavored, and BOTH make stoning quips when they throw magic stones at your target.

[Fable Wright]

Huh. Could this be used with lower level spells? Speak with Animals to get some squirrels to throw the stones? Unseen Servant? Probably not Find Familiar, though.

[Damon_Tor]

It occurs to me that you could get around the orders problem using magic mouths. Rather than use your bonus action to command them, give them the standing order of "obey the orders of the magic mouths." And then you can have the mouths trigger under whatever complex conditions you like, ordering them to attack any creature you attack, for example.

This may be unnecessary though: the spell says they defend themselves against hostile creatures if not given orders. Arm them with magic stones and I expect they would do exactly that, tough perhaps not against the targets you desire.

[Damon_Tor]

Huh. Could this be used with lower level spells? Speak with Animals to get some squirrels to throw the stones? Unseen Servant? Probably not Find Familiar, though.

Unseen servant can't attack. Any summoned/befriended animal would have to be capable of throwing, which excludes most of them. Monkeys could do it.

[Fable Wright]

Unseen servant can't attack. Any summoned/befriended animal would have to be capable of throwing, which excludes most of them. Monkeys could do it.

California Ground Squirrels are capable of throwing, as well as some spiders. Unseen Servant could arguably use object interaction to lightly toss the stone to someone, triggering the magical effect (since it's not rolling any of its own dice), but that it's a sketchy interpretation.

Carrying three monkeys in your backpack at first level comes with unfortunate problems, including the fact that they're probably going to die triggering the party's traps before you actually get to use them to hurl stones. :smalltongue:

[Dualswinger]

I wanted to try this build, but my DM vetoed it. Apparently my little gnome tinkerer who would attack with an army of dolls was “too creepy”