Finding the dumbest race.

[ChudoJogurt]

I am DMing a campaign, as one of the enemies, I want the evil bad guys to have under their control dumb-but-strong creatures, so that there is a master-race of cunning evil magic-users and slave-race of evil creatures that are stupid, weak-willed (low charisma) and preferably mutated or warped in some ways.

But sometimes I still want to add them some character levels, and I am pretty bad about balancing things, so I need some oficial source to balance against. Thus I need to find an official race/template that is
*Medium creature
*Bonus to Str/Con
*No large penalty to Dex
*Pentalties (larger is better) to Wis/Cha/Int
*No or as little Racial HD and Level Adjustment as possible.

Help?

[Bronk]

I am DMing a campaign, as one of the enemies, I want the evil bad guys to have under their control dumb-but-strong creatures, so that there is a master-race of cunning evil magic-users and slave-race of evil creatures that are stupid, weak-willed (low charisma) and preferably mutated or warped in some ways.

But sometimes I still want to add them some character levels, and I am pretty bad about balancing things, so I need some oficial source to balance against. Thus I need to find an official race/template that is
*Medium creature
*Bonus to Str/Con
*No large penalty to Dex
*Pentalties (larger is better) to Wis/Cha/Int
*No or as little Racial HD and Level Adjustment as possible.

Help?

I think you could use Feral Orcs. Orcs are already -2 int IIRC, and the Feral template is another -4.

A preexisting example of your theme are the Neogi (the smart evil ones) and their Umber Hulk minions, detailed in Lords of Madness. Although Umber Hulks are Large, you could probably make them Dungeonbred as well to make them a size smaller.

[Troacctid]

Mineral warrior (Und). Broodguard (SS). Feral (SS). Tainted minion (HH).

[ChudoJogurt]

I think you could use Feral Orcs. Orcs are already -2 int IIRC, and the Feral template is another -4.

A preexisting example of your theme are the Neogi (the smart evil ones) and their Umber Hulk minions, detailed in Lords of Madness. Although Umber Hulks are Large, you could probably make them Dungeonbred as well to make them a size smaller.

I love the Feral Template, but it seems a touch too powerful for +1 LA

[Bronk]

I love the Feral Template, but it seems a touch too powerful for +1 LA

The beauty of the Neogi-controlled Umber Hulks is that it doesn't matter how smart they were before, they just blindly follow orders, so their intelligence wouldn't need to be decreased.

[liquidformat]

I love the Feral Template, but it seems a touch too powerful for +1 LA

Actually it is probably about right for a +1 LA with less than than 3hd, remember that the abilities like pounce, rake, rend, and improved grab are gained based on RHD not HD. Also if you are using the race purely for npcs they do have scaling CR based on hd...

[ngilop]

I am a bit of an odd ball here.


But, wouldn't just homebrewing a race be a bit easier than slapping on half a dozen templates on a monster?

for example
[ ]
+4 Strength, , +4 Constititution -6 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma.
A/n [ ] base land speed is 30 feet.
Strong Back: A/n [ ] has the carrying capacity of a large, rather than medium creature. Doubling the weight it can carry.
Automatic Languages: Common, Bonus Languages:
Favored Class: Barbarian.

So its not going to have a +12 str bonus, but with their racial ability to carry heavier loads they come across as stronger

[Telonius]

There is the Half-Golem template from MM2. Fits most of what you're asking for. +4 Con (or turn into a Construct), only -2 to Dex, -6 to Int/Cha, bonuses to Str based on type of golem, no adjustment to RHD, no listed LA in the book (3.0), 3.5 update book pegged them all as LA: -. The only thing they don't get is a penalty to Wisdom. Slap that template onto whatever minion race you want.

[Maat Mons]

Aelfborn (Dragon 307, p67) get -2 Wis to start, and the an extra -1 Wis for every 2 levels they attain. So by 20th level, they're rocking a hefty -12 Wis from race. The average Aelfborn lapsed into an unending coma back at level 16.

These guys are supremely bad at both Sense Motive and, more importantly, Will saves. If you easy to manipulate and control, that's much better than low Intelligence.

Aelfborn are variant Half-Elves. Which is really perfect, because Elves are already an evil "master race" of magic users. And this way, they at least have a plausible reason to keep those disgusting Half-Elves around. They can even teach the Aelfborn wizardry, so they're useful, without having to wory that they'll get too powerful to control. No matter what they do, they'll have godawful Will saves. And the more powerful they get, the more likely they are to laspe into comas, which is a great cover for getting rid of the toublesome ones.

[liquidformat]

Aelfborn (Dragon 307, p67) get -2 Wis to start, and the an extra -1 Wis for every 2 levels they attain. So by 20th level, they're rocking a hefty -12 Wis from race. The average Aelfborn lapsed into an unending coma back at level 16.

These guys are supremely bad at both Sense Motive and, more importantly, Will saves. If you easy to manipulate and control, that's much better than low Intelligence.

Aelfborn are variant Half-Elves. Which is really perfect, because Elves are already an evil "master race" of magic users. And this way, they at least have a plausible reason to keep those disgusting Half-Elves around. They can even teach the Aelfborn wizardry, so they're useful, without having to wory that they'll get too powerful to control. No matter what they do, they'll have godawful Will saves. And the more powerful they get, the more likely they are to laspe into comas, which is a great cover for getting rid of the toublesome ones.

So Feral aelfborn starts with net 0 adjustment to wis, primeval give +3 wis over the course of 10 levels, Add in maybe wererat and I think you could hold on to level 20!

[Blue Jay]

Grimlocks work pretty well as "mutants," and they have most of the ability mods you wanted (except the negative to Int). Come up with some creative way to emphasize how their blindness affects their spellcasting techniques, and I think they could be really interesting as Evil mutant spellcasting mooks.

[Particle_Man]

Why not just use the bog-standard orc and reskin it as necessary? Or don’t even reskin it. I mean, orcs are the original minions of evil overlords. It’s their raison d’etre. All the way from Tolkien.

[Thurbane]

Has anyone mentioned Gully Dwarf yet? Dragonlance Campaign Setting p.15. +2 Dex +2 Con -4 Int -4 Cha.

Only issue is it's small, and OP wanted medium.

Mongrelfolk +4 Con -2 Int -4 Cha. Races of Destiny p.98. As a bonus, they definitely count as looking "mutated or warped".

[Torpin]

Has anyone mentioned Gully Dwarf yet? Dragonlance Campaign Setting p.15. +2 Dex +2 Con -4 Int -4 Cha.

Only issue is it's small, and OP wanted medium.

Mongrelfolk +4 Con -2 Int -4 Cha. Races of Destiny p.98. As a bonus, they definitely count as looking "mutated or warped".

I find using gully dwarves to be distasteful, i dunno why

[ShurikVch]

Goblin mutants of Io-Rach tribe (Book of Vile Darkness): grows to Medium-size and gains +4 inherent to Str & Con and –4 inherent penalty to Int/Wisdom/Cha

Shadowlands Madman (Creatures of Rokugan): +6 Str and Con, -6 Int/Wisdom/Cha (minimum 3)

Both are 3.0, so no LA was mentioned

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The hairy spider, from Monsters of Faerun, is mindless, but it's still (somehow) marked as a playable race.

I don't think you get much dumber than that.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The perfect strong dumb brute, in my opinion, is a stony phaerlin giant (stony is the Mineral Warrior template, phaerlin giants are in Monsters of Faerûn). Huge 8 HD giants that are officially only CR 4, with +12 str/con and -4 to all mental ability scores. I like to gestalt them with Dungeoncrasher fighter 6/War Hulk 4 (two extra giant RHD opposite WH, so you get +9 bab), which gets you something like a LotR troll (film version). Of course, due to the class levels, that's probably around CR 8-9.

[Thurbane]

Goblin mutants of Io-Rach tribe (Book of Vile Darkness): grows to Medium-size and gains +4 inherent to Str & Con and –4 inherent penalty to Int/Wisdom/Cha

That's very interesting. I've never noticed these before, or seen them mentioned in discussions of playable races.

Are the ability mods on top of normal goblin mods, or do they replace them?

Anyway, great suggestion for a race for OP.

[Maat Mons]

I've never noticed these before, or seen them mentioned in discussions of playable races.

They're not so much a race, as they are the effect of a magical location.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

They're not so much a race, as they are the effect of a magical location.Are they tied there, or can they leave? And if they are tied there, do we know of any way to break that? Other than the acorn of far travel, of course, because that's always useful no matter what the problem.

[Thurbane]

They're not so much a race, as they are the effect of a magical location.

True, but Dragonborn is the result of a magical ritual, and you see that in race discussions all the time.


Are they tied there, or can they leave? And if they are tied there, do we know of any way to break that? Other than the acorn of far travel, of course, because that's always useful no matter what the problem.

Pretty sure they're not tied there. They are the result of alchemical mutation: nothing in the write up suggests they need to stay near the location once they've been "created", unless I missed something.