Help: Half-Elf Drow vs Vuman on Hexblade 4-10 level for rolled stats

[Sol0botmate]

Hello. I am looking for help to chose best option for my Hexblade on new Campaign. We start from level 4 to level 10, maybe higher, but not sure.

EDIT: No multiclass allowed

Stats rolled: 18, 12, 14, 8, 8, 16.

Campaign level 4-10.

I am thinking about two approaches:

1. 18 CHA, PAM + GWM (level 4) and +2 CHA (level 8) Vuman.

2. 20 CHA, GWM (level 4) and Elven Accuracy (level 8) Half-Elf Drow or 20 CHA, GWM (level 4), PAM (level 8) and skip Elven Accuracy while keeping stronger racials.

The first one have 3 attacks with +10 to damage and will attack mostly with advantage (Darkness, Shadow of Moil later). Have 20 CHA, GWM and PAM at level 8.

The second one will have 20 CHA from start, GWM with double advantage (Darkness, Shadow of Moil + Drow magic: Darkness and Faerie Fire) from Elven Accuracy. BUT I could also do GWM + PAM and skip Elven Accuracy completely on Half-Elf and also have 3 attacks but with Drow racial magic to save slots. But it seems like a little waste to not take EA when you are half-elf or elf... Don't you think?

Things to consider:

1. The only die that benefits from increased crit chance (Advantage/EA + Curse) is weapon damage die. Both GWM and later life drinker does not multiple

2. Eldricht Blast however is 1d10 and will benefit from increased crit range.

3. Vuman will have extra attack with 1d4 + 14 (+15 on level 8) from bonus action. To have the same on Half-Elf drow I would have to skip Elven Accuracy, which seems like a waste.

4. Half-Elf will have increased hit chance when on super advantage (but only 11% more vs normal advantage) and increased crit chance (but crits only benefit weapon die). But he has Darkness + Faerie Fire per long rest, saving more slots for other things as you can first use both Drow magic powers before having to use your slots for Darkness/SoM etc.

Overall- what do you think is better approach?

Both would use Glaive probably to abuse 10ft range inside Darkness and switch to two-handed sword once Shadow of Moil will be there. Vuman gives access to extra attack which benefits from GWM and has access to regular advantage but Half Elf have access to double advantage (though increase from advantage to super advantage is much less than from one d20 die to normal advantage) and can use his racial powers: Darkness + Fearie Fire to save slots.

Thank you all for help!

[Quoz]

With those stats, the extra feat from human doesnt seem as necessary, more so when you realize the human needs an ASI to get CHA 20. Go elven accuracy, that extra die is a huge benefit with GWM and all of your ways to get advantage.

[Spiritchaser]

Don’t underestimate super advantage with GWM but I’d base the decision on expected level.

Vhuman gets super strong early. The half drow will take considerably longer to get up to full speed.

I have seen a GWM EE half Elven warlock, and it’s an unholy terror once it gets all its toys, but that’s really not until level 12. It’s hardly weak before that, but it only feels like you really pull ahead then.

[Alucard89]

If you start at level 4:

1. Vuman will have 2 attacks already and 3 on level 5. He will suffer -1 to hit and dmg vs Half-Elf but he will have 3 attacks instead of two. He will attack mostly with advantage. That means if your campaign ends on level 10- you will have 5 levels total of attacking 3 times with GWM and advantage.

2. Half-Elf will have +1 to hit and damage from level 4, but only one attack, 2 on level 5. He will attack with normal advantage from level 5 to 8, where he will get Elven Accuracy. That means that if your campaign ends on level 10- you will have 2 levels total of attacking 2 times with super advantage.

So:

Vuman is stronger here imo as you will enjoy 3 attacks with advantage for 5 levels and as half-elf you will enjoy 2 attacks with advantage to level 8, and only 2 levels of super advantage.

Ther difference between them to level 8 is:

Vuman attack 3 times with +7 (+8 with Improved Pact Blade) for (assuming Glaive) 2d10 + 30 and 1d4 + 15. He attacks with Advantage.

Half-Elf on level 8 attacks 2 times with +8 (+9 with IPB) for (assuming greatsword 4d6 + 32. He will attack with double advantage. But until level 8 he will attack 2 times with only advantage.

If it was 12+ level campaign I would maybe say Half-Elf as he could grab then PAM at level 12 and get ahead of Vuman.

However at the same time Vuman on level 12 would grab RES (CON) or WarCaster giving him edge in his concentration keeping over half-elf which would result in more constant advantage.

I feel like each time you consider PAM builds- Vuman is just better, period.

[Nhorianscum]

VHuman starting with inspiring leader is a pretty clear winner here. +8 temp hp for the full party on all rests is nutso.

Past that just jam your Cha to 20 and take a good utility feat and invocation/spell set.

If you really want damage feindlock is outperforming hexblade hard in this level range as kiss of mestopholies + bealzaboss cloak is just dirty.

[Sol0botmate]

VHuman starting with inspiring leader is a pretty clear winner here. +8 temp hp for the full party on all rests is nutso.

Past that just jam your Cha to 20 and take a good utility feat and invocation/spell set.

If you really want damage feindlock is outperforming hexblade hard in this level range as kiss of mestopholies + bealzaboss cloak is just dirty.

I don't see such invocations in PHB, XGtE or SCAG- is it some UA stuff? We don't use UA, only official.

[Aimeryan]

Go Half-Elf, grab EA, take Paladin for Smite (crit fishing fantastic). Would go to 6 in Paladin for Aura and Vengeance Advantage. With those rolls you can convert the 14 into a 15 with Half-Elf to meet the Strength requirements for Heavy Armour while having 20 Cha and 17 Con (if you want to pick up Resilient(Con) later that can be 18 Con).

Spear & Shield works well for this with PAM. Can switch to 2H GWM later if desired. If you go Paladin 8, Hexblade 12 you will not lose any ASIs (five total) and have lots of spell slots for Smiting with.

[Mitsu]

How about something different: if you will rely that much on Darkness/Shadow of Moil- It's worth to invest into RES (CON) or WarCaster.

Elven Accuracy is a nice feat but I feel like it's totally overrated. It looks good on finished level 12+ builds but getting to the point where everything start to work together for Elven Accuracy is painful.

I would consider the following build:

Vuman, Hexblade, 18 CHA, 17 CON, 14 DEX.

Start with Resilence (CON). Now you have 18 CHA and 18 CON and proficiency on CON saves.

On level 4 take PAM and use Glaive. On level 8 take Sentinel.

This way you can attack from inside of your Darkness with Reach weapon 3 times and go back. Then if enemy try to enter your range you can OA him and lock him into place. If you dive into group of enemies with Darkness- you can lock down those who try to get away from inside it (as Sentinel works on Disengage too). You can move freely inside Darkness as you don't provoke OAs. This gives you huge CC over large portion of battlefield.

You can exchange Sentinel for GWM, but your builds imo have one flaw: no proficiency in CON.

Even with enemies having disadvantage on you, you will be hit and you will have to roll for conc. Your max AC will be (half-plate) 17. That is not enough to think you won't have to deal with conc saves.

With RES (CON) on level 5 you will have +7 to conc save. That is not auto success on DC10 but very high chance of passing it. War Caster would also work as advantage is around +4/+5 to save.

[Sol0botmate]

Go Half-Elf, grab EA, take Paladin for Smite (crit fishing fantastic). Would go to 6 in Paladin for Aura and Vengeance Advantage. With those rolls you can convert the 14 into a 15 with Half-Elf to meet the Strength requirements for Heavy Armour while having 20 Cha and 17 Con (if you want to pick up Resilient(Con) later that can be 18 Con).

Spear & Shield works well for this with PAM. Can switch to 2H GWM later if desired. If you go Paladin 8, Hexblade 12 you will not lose any ASIs (five total) and have lots of spell slots for Smiting with.

Sorry, no multiclass allowed.

[Nhorianscum]

I don't see such invocations in PHB, XGtE or SCAG- is it some UA stuff? We don't use UA, only official.

Kiss and cloak of flies are in xanathars if memory served.

[Sol0botmate]

Kiss and cloak of flies are in xanathars if memory served.

Cloak of Flies is, but it's only 5 poison dmg to enemies around you and hexblade can take it too. Fiend is not necessary.

There is no "Kiss" invocation in XGtE, I just checked. It's UA stuff from what googled.

[Nhorianscum]

Cloak of Flies is, but it's only 5 poison dmg to enemies around you and hexblade can take it too. Fiend is not necessary.

There is no "Kiss" invocation in XGtE, I just checked. It's UA stuff from what googled.

I am in fact wrong.

Woops and appologies.

[Mitsu]

It's apples vs oranges.

PAM GWM Vuman on level 5 will mostly attack with advantage.

He will be doing 3 attacks per turn, which means he will roll total of 6d20 dices with + 8 to hit (+4 from 18 CHA, +1 from Pact Blade and +3 from proficiency), with GWM with +3 to hit.

Half-Elf on level 8 (so 3 levels later) will roll total of 6d20 dices with + 9 to hit (20 CHA), with GWM +4 to hit.

So Half elf will be slighly more accurate for his full damage (+5%) but Vuman will deal around 30% more dmg.

On level 8 (so only 2 levels after Half Elf can pull off what Vuman was doing from level 5) Vuman will also hit GWM with +4.


On level 12 Half-Elf would finally get PAM and roll 9d20 dices vs vuman 6d20 dices on advantage. However Vuman would have finally that Resilent (CON) which would boost his Concentration, even his CON score (17->18 with your stats) and would keep SoM, Darkness or GI much better and longer.

On level 16 finally Half-Elf would also have Resilent (CON) and Vuman Sentinel.

Summary:

If you are 100% sure you won't see levels above 12 with this character- Vuman all the way. Much better DPR and dmg starting from level 1 through level 12.

If you will be playing above level 12- Half-Elf all the way.

As for Racials:

Half-Elf Darkness and Faerie Fire is great, but you won't use your spells for pretty much nothing else till level 5 but Darkness. From level 5 you may save that 2 slots for smites with Half-Elf when he uses his racial, which is not bad. That is is extra 4d8 dmg 2 times per short rest.

However once you get to level 7, both will use Shadow of Moil because it's just better, so one slot will be used anyway and one free, again making Vuman same as Half-Elf in case of slot economy.

So I still say PAM + GWM Vuman is much better at 1-12 levels, becomes somehow even then with half-elf (Res CON is very important but Elven Accuracy PAM GWM will hit more often so better concentration=better DPR. Pretty even in my book) and from level 14+ Half-Elf wins with Vuman.

[Benny89]

Vuman is always best for PAM/Xbow Master/Shield Master builds because they come online so much faster than other races. Those builds are very feat heavy.

So when it comes to PAM Hexblade- Vuman hands down.

You should always plan builds for lower than higher levels.

Vumans just make many of them better faster. Who cares if same build is better on different race on levels 14+? How many people get there.

Also consider what is more important- having more blast 1-14 level or FINALLY having full blast on levels 14-20, where everything is too easy anyway in 5E.

So, yeah. If you want to be PAM + GWM build- Vuman. Otherwise- half-elf.

It's simillar situation to Samurai Fighter vs Battlemaster Fighter range builds.

For Samurai you want Elf, as you get 4,6,8 levels ASI: Sharpshooter, Elven Accuracy, +2 DEX. Done by level 8. 20 DEX, SS and EA. Samurai makes bonus action busy- no need to fill it.

For Battlemaster you want Vuman as you get 1,4,6,8 levels ASI: Xbow Master, Sharpshooter, +2 DEX, +2 DEX. Done by level 8. 20 DEX, SS and Xbow Master. Battlemaster makes bonus action unused- we can fill it with Xbow Master.

Same for PAM vs non-PAM builds.

Go Vuman.