Hearth of Moonlight and Shadow: At will +5 to Perception/Stealth? (Circle of Dreams)

[Merudo]

Hearth of Moonlight & Shadow (Circle of Dreams): At the start of a rest, the Druid creates a sphere, which provides a +5 to Perception & Stealth to the Druid & her allies.

At first I was underwhelmed by the ability, but I then realized something: by RAW, it's possible to start and end a rest pretty much at any time. This means the Druid can start the rest anywhere, make use of the +5 to Perception & Stealth, then end the rest once it is time to move on.

Example 1: The Druid arrives in a possibly trapped room. She starts to rest, giving a +5 to Perception to her party. Her party searches the room. Once the room is deemed safe, the Druid interrupts the rest early & moves on to the next room.

Example 2: The Druid wants to avoid an enemy patrol. She starts to rest, giving a +5 to Stealth. The party sneaks by the patrol, and once out of range the Druid stops the rest.

Example 3: The party is in the middle of combat, and the Rogue is having trouble hiding. The Druid starts a long rest & uses up her free object interaction action to "touch a point in space", which triggers the Hearth. The Rogue can now enjoy a +5 to Stealth. The Druid then uses her action & bonus action as normal. The Long rest is not interrupted by combat, as it would take 1 hour of fighting to stop it.

From my reading of the ability, this makes Hearth of Moonlight and Shadow really strong!

[Aaedimus]

I don't think many DMs would let you start a rest in combat,
Infact most DMs restrict the actions that can occur during a rest considerably.

[Merudo]

I don't think many DMs would let you start a rest in combat,
Infact most DMs restrict the actions that can occur during a rest considerably.

I agree that Example 3 is pushing it.

But what about Example 1 & 2?

Even if the DM "restricts the option that can occur during a rest considerably", keep in mind only the Druid needs to rest for the ability to work - the rest of the party doesn't have to.

[JackPhoenix]

Indeed. It's not the druid who decides what counts as rest, it's the GM.

[Errata]

I think you're treating it more like a video game than a tabletop rpg. The game is balanced around a certain frequency of rests in a typical adventuring day. Certain classes would be way more powerful if you had a long rest between every encounter, and certain classes would be way more powerful if you were deprived of rests for extremely long periods of time. The game is pretty balanced when you have 2 shorts rests per day and 1 long rest per day, with a couple of encounters in between those rests.

There are certain things the players just have to cooperate with to keep the game balanced, and one of those is not abusing rest to make it more frequent than the game is balanced for. To start and stop fake "long rests" that you have no intention of resting for is next level metagaming. A "rest" should be something that your character actually has a chance to find restful and that you have a good faith intention of using as a rest unless some outside influence changes your plans.

[stoutstien]

I think you're treating it more like a video game than a tabletop rpg. The game is balanced around a certain frequency of rests in a typical adventuring day. Certain classes would be way more powerful if you had a long rest between every encounter, and certain classes would be way more powerful if you were deprived of rests for extremely long periods of time. The game is pretty balanced when you have 2 shorts rests per day and 1 long rest per day, with a couple of encounters in between those rests.

There are certain things the players just have to cooperate with to keep the game balanced, and one of those is not abusing rest to make it more frequent than the game is balanced for. To start and stop fake "long rests" that you have no intention of resting for is next level metagaming. A "rest" should be something that your character actually has a chance to find restful and that you have a good faith intention of using as a rest unless some outside influence changes your plans.
Resting in it self is pure metagaming. Do you rest when your character is tired or when you need to recover Resources? As I was saying on the which subclass form of the worse thread the wording of this feature is when you start a rest. A rest can be started just about anytime even if there is little chances of it being completed.

[strangebloke]

Honestly it just really isn't that bad of an ability. +5 to perception while resting isn't shabby at all, and while the stealth might not come up normally, with some lobbying here it might.

IE, if you're in a situation where hunters are trying to find your camp, you might try to argue with your DM and say that you can hid your encampment.

If you compare it to what other druid subclasses get at the same level (moving through difficult terrain, magical beast claws, etc.) it doesn't look that bad by way of comparison.

[LudicSavant]

So I've been looking into the level 6 ability of the Dream Druid, looking for any relevant RAW sources I could find. This is what I've been able to piece together:

"Adventurers" can decide to take a short rest.
Specifically unlike Long Rests, they can do this at any time.
Features without a specified action economy are an Action. So you can't, for example, just declare "I'm starting a short rest!" to activate the Hearth. You have to take an Action to touch a point and create the area of effect. #3 would not work as a result.
The sphere ends if you take any action more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.

[Merudo]

So I've been looking into the level 6 ability of the Dream Druid, looking for any relevant RAW sources I could find. This is what I've been able to piece together:

"Adventurers" can decide to take a short rest.
Specifically unlike Long Rests, they can do this at any time.
Features without a specified action economy are an Action. So you can't, for example, just declare "I'm starting a short rest!" to activate the Hearth. You have to take an Action to touch a point and create the area of effect. #3 would not work as a result.
The sphere ends if you take any action more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.


This makes a lot of sense to me.

According to what you posted, #1 would be RAW legal. And #2 would work as well, as long as the Druid is not doing anything "strenuous".

I'm not sure what would constitute an action "more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds". Would attempting to conceal yourself from enemies (for example by laying in ambush) qualifies?

If concealing yourself is too strenuous and breaks the rest, how can the Druid possibly take advantage of the +5 to Stealth for herself during a short rest?

[stoutstien]

This makes a lot of sense to me.

According to what you posted, #1 would work according to RAW. And #2 would work as well, as long as the Druid is not doing anything "strenuous".

I'm not sure what would constitute an action "more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds". Would attempting to conceal yourself from enemies (for example by laying in ambush) qualifies?

If it's too strenuous and breaks the rest, how can the Druid possibly take advantage of the +5 to Stealth for herself during a short rest?
Combine with Pass without a trace and wild shape. Neither break the requirements for a short rest.

I think the general idea to use this as an ambush tool is to prep the site for the ambush first and then while you're waiting you are fulfilling the requirements for a rest by just sitting there.

[LudicSavant]

I think I might have made a mistake in point #3 re: unspecified actions in my last post. It may indeed be no action at all. Or is at least ambiguous.

Relevant rules:

Adventurers can take short rests in the midst of an adventuring day

A short rest is a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.

There appears to be no mention of a DM deciding when players can rest any more than there is mention of whether a DM deciding when the Wizard casts Fireball. There is however a restriction on when players can long rest.

A character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period

Short rests have no clause about room for interruption, but long rests do:

A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity-at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity, the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.

The sphere vanishes at the end of the rest or when you leave the sphere.

My interpretation of the RAW would be that in order to begin the long rest, you must be meeting the conditions for "non-strenuous" activity (because if you aren't doing that, you're not resting, and therefore not beginning a rest). This would mean that you could not be in combat when you initiated the Hearth of Moonlight and Shadow, but otherwise that you would be able to do it at any time.

Given all this, my interpretation of the RAW would be...

Short Rest Hearths
"Adventurers" can decide to take a short rest.
Specifically unlike Long Rests, they can do this at any time.
In order to begin the short rest, you must be doing activities no more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, or tending to wounds. So no activating it in combat.
The sphere ends if you take any action more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.


Long Rest Hearths

In order to begin the long rest, you must be doing activities no more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, or tending to wounds. So no activating it in combat.
Adventurers can only "benefit from" a long rest once during any 24 hour period.
If a rest is interrupted, they do not "benefit from" the long rest, and must start it all over again to "gain any benefit from it."
The sphere only disappears if the rest ends (or if you leave the area of the sphere).
The rest only ends after "at least 1 hour" of strenuous activity.
This means you actually can use an incomplete long rest to create a Hearth that will be active during a combat, and still take another one during the same 24 hour period. However you would have to activate it before the combat starts, not during.


That's... weird. RAW is weird. Are there some other relevant rules somewhere?