Ultimate Hordemaster

[Mind's Eye]

My challenge to you:
Make a level 20 Character that can control an enormous horde. Alone. No subhordes through lesser beings or things like that. Just solo Horde control. Nothing is off limits, be it campaign settings or UA. Assuming a 20 in every stat at 1st level, so you can take all the feats you want. Have fun. :smallsmile:

[JackPhoenix]

High charisma, proficiency (and for better measure, expertise) in Persuasion, Deception and Intimidate. Class, feats or other things is pretty much irrelevant, though Noble background may be helpful. But to be fair, you don't really need any of that.

Just talk to people and convince them to follow you. You "horde" now has arbitrary number of members.

[Unoriginal]

My challenge to you:
Make a level 20 Character that can control an enormous horde. Alone. No subhordes through lesser beings or things like that. Just solo Horde control. Nothing is off limits, be it campaign settings or UA. Assuming a 20 in every stat at 1st level, so you can take all the feats you want. Have fun. :smallsmile:

Alright.

Karkol

Kobold Champion Fighter 20, Background Knight (Noble).

Wear full plate, use a lance, ride a warhound.

Proficiency in Persuasion, History and Intimidation.

Feats: Inspiring Leader, Charger, Heavy Armor Master, Mounted Combatant.


Using her unmatched jousting record, the reputation of her battlefield prowess, and the large amount of money she acquired doing the above, Karkol hires/ convinces an enormous horde to have her as leader.


As the Volo's says:


CHAMPION
Champions are mighty warriors who honed their fighting skills in wars or gladiatorial pits. To soldiers and other people who fight for a living, champions are as influential as nobles, and their presence is courted as a sign of status among rulers.


WARLORD
Warlords are legendary battlefield commanders whose names are spoken with awe. After a string of decisive victories, a warlord could easily take on the role of monarch or general and attract followers willing to die for his or her banner.


And a lvl 20 Champion Fighter PC is more than a match for those.

[Vorpalchicken]

15th level druid (Animal Shapes) with a Rod of Rulership and a few beehives.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'd probably just go with Undying Warlock 5, Necromancer Wizard 15. With Short Rest Spell Slots, you can afford to cast Animate Dead MANY times per day. If you happen to lose control over one of your Undead for some reason, Undying Warlock prevents them from attacking you. If your DM is a hard-ass for Short Rests to prevent this, just get around it by using Catnap.

Or I suppose you could just abuse the Spore Druid's ability to create armies, as long as you don't mind the fact that they only have 1 HP.

[JackPhoenix]

Or I suppose you could just abuse the Spore Druid's ability to create armies, as long as you don't mind the fact that they only have 1 HP.

And that you're limited to using it only up to 5 times (Wis mod) per long rest, and they'll die after an hour.

[Wildarm]

15th level druid (Animal Shapes) with a Rod of Rulership and a few beehives.

Defend the Queen! This is why Druids can't have nice things(like Rods of Rulership)

[stoutstien]

Planar ally is only limited my gold supply.

[Man_Over_Game]

And that you're limited to using it only up to 5 times (Wis mod) per long rest, and they'll die after an hour.

Hmm...I was under the impression that they lasted indefinitely. My bad.

[Lube]

A Sorcerer casting Wish to duplicate Animal shapes spell, but with Distant spell. It's 8x more creatures affected than non-metamagicked animal shapes.

Also, Glyph of Warding upcasting to level 9 to store Wish to duplicate Animal Shapes with Distant Spell.
You pay 200gp and It keeps your concentration spell free.

[Vogie]

Shepherd Druid, with a 1 level dip of Order Cleric and 3 levels of Battlemaster fighter

Use High-level castings of Animal friendship to slowly develop an animal army over multiple days & weeks.
On the day of the fight, high-level summonings using the Conjure spells augmented with Mighty Summoner.
All spells cast on your animal friends or conjured allies give them reaction attacks, with multi-target spells giving multiple creatures reaction attacks, and your own attacks can be replaced with Commander's strike.

[Man_Over_Game]

A Sorcerer casting Wish to duplicate Animal shapes spell, but with Distant spell. It's 8x more creatures affected than non-metamagicked animal shapes.

Also, Glyph of Warding upcasting to level 9. Using Wish to duplicate Animal Shapes with Distant Spell.
You pay 200gp and It keeps your concentration spell free.

It's a really cool combo, but I think there's a few problems with that:


Wish does not hold Concentration for you. If you Wish for it to, you'd be asking it for something that's beyond what's normally allowed with it, potentially causing Wish Burnout.
As a DM ruling, I'd probably say that spells cast via Wish do not use your Metamagics, due to the fact that your Metamagics don't do anything to Wish, and Metamagics have to be chosen when the initial spell is cast, and you didn't cast a spell with a useable range.

[Lube]

It's a really cool combo, but I think there's a few problems with that:


Wish does not hold Concentration for you. If you Wish for it to, you'd be asking it for something that's beyond what's normally allowed with it, potentially causing Wish Burnout.
As a DM ruling, I'd probably say that spells cast via Wish do not use your Metamagics, due to the fact that your Metamagics don't do anything to Wish, and Metamagics have to be chosen when the initial spell is cast, and you didn't cast a spell with a useable range.


Glyph of Warding allows bypass concentration.

Also, Sage Advice: "Yes, and use the number of sorcery points appropriate for the level of the spell you're duplicating."
You can apply metamagic on a duplicated spell.

[Man_Over_Game]

Glyph of Warding allows bypass concentration.

Also, Sage Advice: "Yes, and use the number of sorcery points appropriate for the level of the spell you're duplicating."
You can apply metamagic on a duplicated spell.

Good find! The only major concern I see is that you aren't technically controlling the creatures, as they have to be willing to convert from the get-go. Still, I think this would be the most massive combat change that someone could probably implement.

[Lube]

Good find! The only major concern I see is that you aren't technically controlling the creatures, as they have to be willing to convert from the get-go. Still, I think this would be the most massive combat change that someone could probably implement.
Thanks ^^

Sorcerers can cast wish to duplicate Awaken Spell to create slowly your own horde. Stirges and/or Bats are flying tiny creatures.
Basically, they control a horde of stirge/bat and then "Distant Animal Shapes".
Inspire Leadership feat can be really insane here.
Cast Distant Seeming spell and turn them into "Shadow Dragons". It's epic.

[Cuaqchi]

Arcana Cleric 20
Domain Spell at 9th Level - Wish
Wish a Simulacrum
Find any/every extraplanar creature possible.
Use your Channel Divinity to disable them for a minute, Having Simulcrum use Divine Intervention to force them to fail their save.
While cowering for a minute have the Simulacrum cast a reversed Magic Circle around the creature.
Use Planar Binding on the now trapped extraplanar creature, use Divine Intervention to force it to fail the save.

Can repeat this process with 1 minion added to your horde every week (recharge rate of Divine Intervention), and taking advantage of upcasting Planar Binding to ensure you have sufficient durations that every minion stays bound in perpetuity by simply demanding they again fail the save when you recast near the end of your period of control.


Takes a while to build up, but you have time. And an army of Angels/Archdevils/Demonlords at your disposal.

[JackPhoenix]

A Sorcerer casting Wish to duplicate Animal shapes spell, but with Distant spell. It's 8x more creatures affected than non-metamagicked animal shapes.

Also, Glyph of Warding upcasting to level 9 to store Wish to duplicate Animal Shapes with Distant Spell.
You pay 200gp and It keeps your concentration spell free.

You can't upcast GoW to level 9. Well, you can, but as you only get 1 level 9 slot, you won't have another slot to cast a Wish as part of the GoW's casting to use spell glyph version.

[Lube]

Arcana Cleric 20
Domain Spell at 9th Level - Wish
Wish a Simulacrum
Find any/every extraplanar creature possible.
Use your Channel Divinity to disable them for a minute, Having Simulcrum use Divine Intervention to force them to fail their save.
While cowering for a minute have the Simulacrum cast a reversed Magic Circle around the creature.
Use Planar Binding on the now trapped extraplanar creature, use Divine Intervention to force it to fail the save.

Can repeat this process with 1 minion added to your horde every week (recharge rate of Divine Intervention), and taking advantage of upcasting Planar Binding to ensure you have sufficient durations that every minion stays bound in perpetuity by simply demanding they again fail the save when you recast near the end of your period of control.


Takes a while to build up, but you have time. And an army of Angels/Archdevils/Demonlords at your disposal.

You are a cleric that is casting planar ally (God's ally) and than use Divine Intervention (God's action) to force them to fail (DM dependent). The creature turns hostile (Planar Binding "if the creature is hostile to you, it strives to twist your words to achieve its own objectives".

Are you sure about that?

[Lube]

You can't upcast GoW to level 9. Well, you can, but as you only get 1 level 9 slot, you won't have another slot to cast a Wish as part of the GoW's casting to use spell glyph version.
fair enough.

[Cuaqchi]

You are a cleric that is casting planar ally (God's ally) and than use Divine Intervention (God's action) to force them to fail (DM dependent). The creature turns hostile (Planar Binding "if the creature is hostile to you, it strives to twist your words to achieve its own objectives".

Are you sure about that?

That assumes you're using Planar Ally to get the extraplanar critters. You could also use Divination to get clues as to the location of one opposed to the deity and thus bend it (back?) to the deity's will. Thus actually having a reason to get out of the cloister and adventure as said extremely overpowered character... Since you only get one a week, why not do something with the other 6 days of spell slots.

[Rukelnikov]

There are a couple ways to get as many minions as you want, or a really high number of them:

As many as you want:

Finger of Death. To make it faster become a lich with the Book of Vile Darkness, get a lair, and recover high level slots to kill stuff with FoD faster.

Become a Death Tyrant using permanent True Polymorph, create zombies.

Become a Vampire, create spawns.

Become an Atropal, summon wraiths.

Many more in the line of "Become X, do Y"

Really high:

wiz5, sorc7, lock3 Get a lot of coffee and Tiny Servant, make as many lvl 5 slots as you want, you can only cast this spell 60 times an hour, that's 180 minions per hour, you could have 1260 tiny servants for an hour.

Otherwise go wiz11/sorc5/lock3, magic jar a Drow Matron Mother, make lots of lvl 3 slots, get thornies or some other creatures with Regen to fight themselves in an arena, and thanks to the DMM legendary action you can cast tiny servant once per round, that's 600 servants an hour, making it 4200 servants for one hour.

Wish + Plannar Ally, assuming your enemies never make the save (DC >20 + Save), you get 2 minions a day for a year and a day, so... Like 600 for 2 months

Many more in general.

[sithlordnergal]

I'd go Shepard Druid/Necromancer with a 10/10 split:

Build up my undead army as much as I can, making sure to save a 9th level spell slot, then cast a 9th level Conjure Animal. Here's how it would go:

All 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th spells go to Animate Dead. With Undead Thrall, which you grants you one extra undead whenever you cast Animate Dead, and the fact you get two extra undead per upcast of the spell, you get:

- 2 per 3rd level slot for 6 skeletons

- 4 per 4th level slot for 12 skeletons

- 6 per 5th level slot for 18 skeletons

- 8 per 6th level slot for 16 skeletons

- 10 per 7th level slot for 20 skeletons

and finally

- 12 per 8th level slot for another 12 skeletons.

Using all those slots you shooould have and control 84 skeletons, but we aren't done yet. You remember that Shepard Druid bit, well there's a reason for it. Cast a 9th level Conjure Animals for another 32 Beasts, all with Magical damage, boosted HP, and best of all free healing in your Aura. With that you can get a nice max of 116 creatures all under your direct control.

Are they CR 1/4? Yes. Will that matter? Not really.

EDIT: I am reading that right, yeah?

Animate Dead: "When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, you animate or reassert control over two additional Undead creatures for each slot above 3rd. "

Undead Thrall: When you cast animate dead, you can target one additional corpse or pile of bones, creating another zombie or skeleton, as appropriate.

[Rukelnikov]

I'd go Shepard Druid/Necromancer with a 10/10 split:

Build up my undead army as much as I can, making sure to save a 9th level spell slot, then cast a 9th level Conjure Animal. Here's how it would go:

All 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th spells go to Animate Dead. With Undead Thrall, which you grants you one extra undead whenever you cast Animate Dead, and the fact you get two extra undead per upcast of the spell, you get:

- 2 per 3rd level slot for 6 skeletons

- 4 per 4th level slot for 12 skeletons

- 6 per 5th level slot for 18 skeletons

- 8 per 6th level slot for 16 skeletons

- 10 per 7th level slot for 20 skeletons

and finally

- 12 per 8th level slot for another 12 skeletons.

Using all those slots you shooould have and control 84 skeletons, but we aren't done yet. You remember that Shepard Druid bit, well there's a reason for it. Cast a 9th level Conjure Animals for another 32 Beasts, all with Magical damage, boosted HP, and best of all free healing in your Aura. With that you can get a nice max of 116 creatures all under your direct control.

Are they CR 1/4? Yes. Will that matter? Not really.

EDIT: I am reading that right, yeah?

Animate Dead: "When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, you animate or reassert control over two additional Undead creatures for each slot above 3rd. "

Undead Thrall: When you cast animate dead, you can target one additional corpse or pile of bones, creating another zombie or skeleton, as appropriate.

Yup, you are reading right, take into account that you don't need to animate every day, you can just reassert control over undeads you created previously, and that means 3 more skelly's per cast :smallwink:

[sithlordnergal]

I have a female Human Transmuter as the Big Bad. She's basically a Mother of Monsters' type, giving birth to numerous Tieflings (a dozen?), Half-Dragons, Half-Elves, and Genasi, as well as a Half-Orc, an Aasimar or 3, a Cambion Demon, Humans, and on and on. Basically anything that can mate with a Human are her children.

Reading this thread though makes me think my players are going to hate me when I implement some of these characters as her children. Their task has just gotten a lot harder. Thanks guys. :smallbiggrin:

You're welcome...and for those 32 beasts just remember: Use Velocoraptors for the deadliest results. >=3 They fit two to a square, so 16 can surround one person, they have pack tactics, and multi attack >=3

[JackPhoenix]

You're welcome...and for those 32 beasts just remember: Use Velocoraptors for the deadliest results. >=3 They fit two to a square, so 16 can surround one person, they have pack tactics, and multi attack >=3

It's 4 per square, actually.

Murderchickens are awesome.

[sithlordnergal]

It's 4 per square, actually.

Murderchickens are awesome.

You're correct, I tended to not do 4 to a square since my DM ruled only 2 could reach a target at a time unless they were physically on top of it. Which is fair. After killing a Hydra with just the 3rd level Conjure Animals and them, he had to give it the murderchickens sort of nerf XD

[Nhorianscum]

Be a CE divine caster..

Cast create undead from an 8th level slot for 2 ghasts.

???

Army of the damned of N+2 size.

[CTurbo]

Warforged Fighter 1/Forge Cleric 19

AC would be 16 + Proficiency bonus(6) + 1 from Defense Style + 1 from Blessing of the Forge + 1 from Soul of the Forge +2 from carrying a shield = 27

Feats-
Heavy Armor Mastery
Warcaster
Res(Con or Wis depending on when you took Fighter 1)
Defensive Duelist
Shield Master


Cast Spirit Guardians with your 9th level slot for 9d8 damage to every enemy within 15ft of you. Take the Dodge Action, and just walk around. I guess you could use Spiritual Weapon with your bonus action but I think it'd be unnecessary. You'd be nearly impossible to hit. Only a double crit would hit you probably and you would have resistance as well as the -3 to melee damage anyway. You'd have very little chance of dropping your concentration too. Even if something did have a decent to hit bonus, just carry a dagger around in your hand and use Defensive Duelist with your reaction to add +6 to your AC. You'd have 21 spell slots and SG lasts 10 min per casting so assuming you cast SG with every slot, you could walk around for 210 hours straight probably killing hundreds if not thousands of hordes of helpless enemies.

[Mitsu]

Control like convience or like like CC in combat?

For non-combat any character with 20 CHA and Expertise in Persuasion + maybe access to Mass Suggestion. You can basicelly walk to any crowded area and make Red Revolution fast.


For combat, any caster with maxed spell stat and spells like Hypnotic Pattern, Spirit Guardians, Entangle, Web, Force Cage (thought enemies would have to be cramped).

Hell, if you want to repell horde a spells like Sickening Radiance or Cloud spells will be great.