Using Movement to Shove

[Laserlight]

I'm starting a new campaign soon. Combat will ordinarily be on a grid, and I will include Flanking as a +1 or +2 bonus. I'm also thinking about this house rule:

"You may expend 15 feet of movement to make a Shove attack against an adjacent creature. If your Shove opposed roll is successful, you Shove him 5ft away from you. (You do not shove him Prone unless he is in Difficult terrain). You may choose to follow him as part of this attack (ie you do not have to spend additional Movement) ; if you do follow and have sufficient Movement remaining, you may Shove again.
If he successfully opposes with STR, he doesn't move; if he successfully opposes with DEX, he may move 5ft in any direction to an unoccupied space.
Regardless of whether or not you follow him, he does not provoke an OA (although if you do follow, you might provoke)."

Comments?

[Wildarm]

Likely to just slow down combat. You'll have every character not using their movement in melee to shove each other around. If players have a strong need to shove something, they will forgo an attack to do it. If they need to move something far away, they'll grapple and move. The game already has good mechanics for all of this.

[sophontteks]

Eagle totem barbarians can move 80 feet per round really early. Multiclass elk barbarians with rogue can move over 100 feet per round. Barbarians have athletics profeciency with advantage. They will rarely fail the opposed check. That is a whole lot of free forced movement.

[Man_Over_Game]

It's an awful lot of different scenarios and things to track for a modification for the Shove rules. I'm all for modifying Shove to see more use in combat, but I feel like this is a bit too clunky and "dancelike" for melee combatants who are using high strength. I think it'd be more thematic to allow a Shove to be both a knockback and a prone, with a good enough roll. Or allow you to Shove and attack in the same turn. Shove does need to be improved, but I don't think that the slide-y-ness of 4e would fit well in 5th edition.



Maybe something like "When you use your Action to Shove and you successfully push the creature back or knock him prone, you can attempt a second roll by expending your Bonus Action. If this second roll is successful, you regain your Action."

[OverLordOcelot]

Under these rules a 10th level monk with the mobility feat or longstrider cast on him can spend 1 ki point do 8 push attacks per round while still doing his 2 regular attacks, and you can do it earlier if you do mobility + longstrider, or take a race with a move bonus like wood elf. A rogue with cunning action (or a combo of rogue/monk) can do it without spending ki points. People are going to get shoved around a lot with this ability, and any fight even kind of near a fall or hazard will involve a lot of shoving into it.

[stoutstien]

It's an awful lot of different scenarios and things to track for a modification for the Shove rules. I'm all for modifying Shove to see more use in combat, but I feel like this is a bit too clunky and "dancelike" for melee combatants who are using high strength. I think it'd be more thematic to allow a Shove to be both a knockback and a prone, with a good enough roll. Or allow you to Shove and attack in the same turn. Shove does need to be improved, but I don't think that the slide-y-ness of 4e would fit well in 5th edition.



Maybe something like "When you use your Action to Shove and you successfully push the creature back or knock him prone, you can attempt a second roll by expending your Bonus Action. If this second roll is successful, you regain your Action."

This seems like a good base for fixing the charger feat.

[OverLordOcelot]

I think it'd be more thematic to allow a Shove to be both a knockback and a prone, with a good enough roll. Or allow you to Shove and attack in the same turn. Shove does need to be improved, but I don't think that the slide-y-ness of 4e would fit well in 5th edition.

For people with significant training in fighting (everyone who gets extra attack), it is both a knockback and prone, or a shove and attack in the same turn. For fighters it's a knockback, prone, and attack or two in the same turn. Shove doesn't take an entire action, it replaces one attack in your attack action sequence.

[Man_Over_Game]

For people with significant training in fighting (everyone who gets extra attack), it is both a knockback and prone, or a shove and attack in the same turn. For fighters it's a knockback, prone, and attack or two in the same turn. Shove doesn't take an entire action, it replaces one attack in your attack action sequence.

Yeah, you're right, I meant to say "Attack" not "Action".

[sophontteks]

Shoving forces the enemy into hazards. It's power depends on the complexity of your environment. It's practically useless on a white grid, and completely OP when reinacting "THIS IS SPARTA!" near a bottomless pit.

[Bjarkmundur]

I'm all for more shoving, and I'd love to hear how that works out. Maybe "half movement" just to simplify?

I really like the implementation, having dex work as a "Dodge" that doesn't provoke OAs.

[Laserlight]

I want some of 4e "slide-y-ness". I don't have a problem with a brawny barbarian shoving a scrawny guy back ten feet in a turn. Forty feet is probably excessive, though
On the other hand, I don't want it to include proning the target, because I don't want it to be "we ALWAYS do that".

I may go with "half your move". On one hand, if you Dash and Bonus Action Dash (assuming you have that option) , you could still shove someone six times; on the other hand, you're not doing any damage or imposing Disadvantage on him, just moving him.