Gladiator Games Level 20 2v2

[blackjack50]

I am going to be playing a few one shots with some friends in the spirit of March Madness. It will be a tournament. We will be creating a level 20 character off of just the Player Handbook. Then it will be a 2v2 fight to the death. No Hold’s Barred.

So. Min Maxing or personal preferences...what would YOU pick?

Ps

You control 2 characters as a team.

PPS (edit)

No doubling up allowed. If you pick one class you have to have a different one for your second character.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm gonna say it:

Level 20 Moon Druid.

As for your partner:

Level 20 Moon Druid.

There. That's your team.


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On a serious note, it really depends on distance, prep time, the conditions of the arena, and other factors. If you have as much space in the world, I'd go Diviner and Moon Druid. Have the Diviner use his Divination magic combo to see virtually every invisible trick and WIldshape people would try to pull, then find specific targets using Scrying, then sending the Moon Druid as a heat seeking missile to harass and destroy the easiest targets, using Portent to help the pair succeed against any saves against them.

[blackjack50]

I'm gonna say it:

Level 20 Moon Druid.

As for your partner:

Level 20 Moon Druid.

There. That's your team.


-------------------

On a serious note, it really depends on distance, prep time, the conditions of the arena, and other factors. If you have as much space in the world, I'd go Diviner and Moon Druid. Have the Diviner use his Divination magic combo to see virtually every invisible trick and WIldshape people would try to pull, then find specific targets using Scrying, then sending the Moon Druid as a heat seeking missile to harass and destroy the easiest targets, using Portent to help the pair succeed against any saves against them.


I did forget to mention no doubling up. So level 20 moon Druid and something else. I took a phone call before I could edit lol.

[GlenSmash!]

Moon druid for obvious reasons.

Some type of Wizard with power work kill and disintegrate for enemy Moon Druids (or zealot barbarians)

[Man_Over_Game]

Moon druid for obvious reasons.

Some type of Wizard with power work kill and disintegrate for enemy Moon Druids (or zealot barbarians)

The effectiveness of Disintegrate against Moon Druids depends on the DM. I think there was errata that basically wrote it so that the Moon Druid Wild Shape never actually hits 0 HP, and so the Druid can't die from Disintegrate/Undead effect shenanigans.

[blackjack50]

I'm gonna say it:

Level 20 Moon Druid.

As for your partner:

Level 20 Moon Druid.

There. That's your team.


-------------------

On a serious note, it really depends on distance, prep time, the conditions of the arena, and other factors. If you have as much space in the world, I'd go Diviner and Moon Druid. Have the Diviner use his Divination magic combo to see virtually every invisible trick and WIldshape people would try to pull, then find specific targets using Scrying, then sending the Moon Druid as a heat seeking missile to harass and destroy the easiest targets, using Portent to help the pair succeed against any saves against them.

I think a Monk would be a very useful character At level 20 stats and saving throws. They could also potentially do a lot of damage to a caster.

[Man_Over_Game]

I think a Monk would be a very useful character At level 20 stats and saving throws. They could also potentially do a lot of damage to a caster.

Sure, but the Monk can't fly, can't do much to avoid something like a Wall of Force cube. If the Monk can get the drop on the casters, sure, but that's exactly what the Divination Wizard is for.

[Bloodcloud]

Moon druid is probably one of them regardless of circumstances.

For the other, Bard or Abjuration wizard. Counterspell/dispel are probably gonna be vital.

Sorcerer gets a mention for subtle spell, that can't be counterspelled.


Otherwise, yeah composition of the arena/starting distance/prebuff rounds will heavily skew the results.

Winning initiative is gonna play a role for sure.

[Man_Over_Game]

Plot Twist: The entire arena is filled to the brim with Earth Elemental Moon Druids who are Earthquaking one another and punching each other under ground, or casters designed around Counterspell that don't do anything but wait to counterspell a spell that never happens (because in a Counterspell War, he who casts first loses).

[blackjack50]

Sure, but the Monk can't fly, can't do much to avoid something like a Wall of Force cube. If the Monk can get the drop on the casters, sure, but that's exactly what the Divination Wizard is for.

Surely slow fall and assistance from another player could be very useful against a flying opponent. Even a potential aerial grapple. Idk. Anything that forces the other player to the ground could be very bad for someone having to face a 20 monk.

[BigPixie]

No level 20 4E monk 5/ PDK 5/Valor Bard 6/Inquisitive Rogue 4?:smallbiggrin:

[GlenSmash!]

The effectiveness of Disintegrate against Moon Druids depends on the DM. I think there was errata that basically wrote it so that the Moon Druid Wild Shape never actually hits 0 HP, and so the Druid can't die from Disintegrate/Undead effect shenanigans.

Gotcha, still wearing down HP and Power Word Kill ought to do it.

[blackjack50]

So then the question is...how does one best KILL a moon Druid? It seems like most people would pick one.

[Man_Over_Game]

So then the question is...how does one best KILL a moon Druid? It seems like most people would pick one.

Well, it can only Wild Shape on its turn, so denying it a turn via Stunning Strike, Hold Person, or Banishment are all valid options. Plus, Wild Shapes have notoriously low damage at higher levels. The Druid also can't shift out of form and shift back again in the same turn effectively.

If the Moon Druid was smart, it'd wait until it was almost out of WS HP, run away, activate an Opportunity Attack against it and hope it breaks the form so that he can use his Bonus Action to shift again. Rinse, repeat. If the attack doesn't pop the bubble, then he can shift out, then shift back as an Action (dealing no damage or contributions for the turn).

Plus, all of its forms are based on actual monster stats. If you can find a spell that targets Constitution/Strength/Dexterity, and know what the WS Forms are weak to, you can just focus on countering its weaknesses.

[LudicSavant]

Moon Druid is basically a "you must be at least this optimized to make any contribution to the fight whatsoever" bar. Because any contribution below a certain threshold will simply be undone.

But if you can pass that bar... well, then it becomes a battle of who has the craziest shenanigans. And Wizard and Bard probably have the craziest shenanigans. Stuff like Wish, Simulacrum, Contingency... these are tough to compete with when used to their full potential, and other casters don't get them.

[blackjack50]

Well, it can only Wild Shape on its turn, so denying it a turn via Stunning Strike, Hold Person, or Banishment are all valid options. Plus, Wild Shapes have notoriously low damage at higher levels. The Druid also can't shift out of form and shift back again in the same turn effectively.

If the Moon Druid was smart, it'd wait until it was almost out of WS HP, run away, activate an Opportunity Attack against it and hope it breaks the form so that he can use his Bonus Action to shift again. Rinse, repeat. If the attack doesn't pop the bubble, then he can shift out, then shift back as an Action (dealing no damage or contributions for the turn).

Plus, all of its forms are based on actual monster stats. If you can find a spell that targets Constitution/Strength/Dexterity, and know what the WS Forms are weak to, you can just focus on countering its weaknesses.

Monks do use a lot against Constitution. But I see the point about dealing with fliers. So something to keep them grounded maybe?

[CTurbo]

Bladesinger casting Antimagic field would kill all the pesky Druids.

[Torpin]

open hand monk with either a divination based wizard, or a lore bard

[Bloodcloud]

Well, a battlemaster sharpshooter can reasonnably deall 200 damage on a round by going all out. That'll kill that druid before he gets a chance to wildshape if no buffing round is allowed. In fact it should mess up anything with a d8 or less.

[Jamesps]

Warforged swashbuckler and Wild Mage (6) Diviner (14) with alertness and lucky.

Round 1: Wild mage tries to win initiative with advantage and lucky, burning as many dice as necessary to go first. He then subtle spells an upcast charm person targeting both opponents, using wild mage powers and diviner powers to penalize saves.

Round 2 through 800,576,453: Warforged talks to them until they die of old age. Each must make between five and ten DC 27 insight checks in a row to break free of the warforged's sparkling wit.

Note, your companion should also be a warforged to avoid losing them to old age as well.

As an added benefit you should win by default on all future matches as you continue to your own match until your opponents die of old age. You may want to bring means to elongate your first opponent's lifespan if you want to lean on this technique though.