ASI’s as compared to class features

[stewstew5]

If I were to make a character who didn’t have a subclass because the base class had all they needed, how unreasonable would it be to ask my DM to (at their discretion) replace sub class features with ASI’s or feats? How powerful are the two compared to eachother (excluding ribbon features)

[LuccMa]

Depends in the subclass a rit. Rogues for example have a great base but their subs are all kinda terrible in my opinion.

Moon Druid? Not playable without the subclass.

All in all ihren wouldnt allow it. ASI seems stronger to me as weak subclass Features (way stronger), especially If you get to take feats.

Just pick a subclass you Like or Work with your DM to replace some features.

[Bjarkmundur]

It might not be unreasonable, but it's the message it sends that bothers me.

Look at it this way. We are assuming that by forgoing your subclass you can ask your DM for any other single feature.

Now, instead of asking for wings, or the ability to turn into a demon-like supercreature, or transforming your sword into a megaweapon of fiendish flames, you ask for a stat bonus?

That would ring some warning bells in my DM brain.

[Belthien]

All in all i wouldnt allow it. ASI seems stronger to me as weak subclass Features (way stronger), especially If you get to take feats.

Just pick a subclass you Like or Work with your DM to replace some features.

Completely agree with this. Some class features at a level, even the non-ribbons, aren't particularly powerful, so getting an ASI or feat there seems too strong. There's plenty of subclasses out there these days, so one of them should hopefully get pretty close to something you like, even with a bit of refluffing. Otherwise, ask your DM if you can work together on some alternative features with a similar power level.

[MrStabby]

Yeah, it really depends on the class.

Monk? No way would I allow it.
Cleric? Not really a balance issue.

Overall I would steer away from it as it generally seems to be more about power than flavour (usually pretty cool with people swapping spell lists about for example, as long as there is a coherent flavour reason for doing so)

[Shuruke]

Yeah, it really depends on the class.

Monk? No way would I allow it.
Cleric? Not really a balance issue.

Overall I would steer away from it as it generally seems to be more about power than flavour (usually pretty cool with people swapping spell lists about for example, as long as there is a coherent flavour reason for doing so)

Itd be fun to play an "oath less" palladin XD
Or a druid who doesnt have a circle

A hedge wizard who never studied one particular school

Colledge drop out bard

However something like cleric just wouldn't work

Way I would rule it as DM is
Yes u can however when you get rp/social/ribbon stuff you put the asi toward a feat like prodigy , skilled , inspiring leader. Ones that open up windows for more than just maxing stats to 20 or taking combat feats

[Bjarkmundur]

Colledge drop out bard


Looooooooool

[stewstew5]

It might not be unreasonable, but it's the message it sends that bothers me.

Look at it this way. We are assuming that by forgoing your subclass you can ask your DM for any other single feature.

Now, instead of asking for wings, or the ability to turn into a demon-like supercreature, or transforming your sword into a megaweapon of fiendish flames, you ask for a stat bonus?

That would ring some warning bells in my DM brain.


Completely agree with this. Some class features at a level, even the non-ribbons, aren't particularly powerful, so getting an ASI or feat there seems too strong. There's plenty of subclasses out there these days, so one of them should hopefully get pretty close to something you like, even with a bit of refluffing. Otherwise, ask your DM if you can work together on some alternative features with a similar power level.

Hence the “at their discretion”

[BloodOgre]

I think you will find that when a base class has "all you need", that the base class is providing the big perks as you level up, and the little things provided by the subclass, particularly for most of the casting classes, don't provide as great an advantage as an ASI or feat would. For Wizard, sorcerer, cleric and druid, the big perk (often taken for granted) is that you get at least one additional spell slot (and often two) and one or two additional spells known/prepared PER LEVEL. That is huge. Any Wizard will tell you that the school Adept feature, and at least one or two other sub-class features, are either pretty useless, or have limited use.

In short, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.