Ranger taking prestige class question

[huginn]

I am in my first pathfinder campaign with an 8th level ranger. I was looking at arcane archer
I thought at first this be great for my ranger but I don't see it. Is there any reason why a ranger or anyone else take a prestige class(at least the ones in core book)?

For the people who tried prestige classes are they worth it?

[Eldariel]

I am in my first pathfinder campaign with an 8th level ranger. I was looking at arcane archer
I thought at first this be great for my ranger but I don't see it. Is there any reason why a ranger or anyone else take a prestige class(at least the ones in core book)?

For the people who tried prestige classes are they worth it?

It depends on the prestige class and the base class. Most core classes get next to nothing in class so they lose little by multiclassing. Cleric has absolutely no class features of note aside from Turning, Wizard has bonus feats, Sorcerer has familiar advancement (so basically nothing), Fighter gets +1 to hit and +2 to damage after level 4, Barbarian gets extra uses of Rage, Monk gets their last bonus feat on level 6 and has to wait until level 11 for the next relevant ability, etc. Ranger, Rogue, Druid, Bard are somewhat exempted.

Now we then come to the quality of prestige classes. As you correctly deduced, Arcane Archer is a terrible class. Its singular worthwhile ability not replicated by the Greater Magic Weapon-spell is the 2nd level Imbue Arrow ability. This means you get to shoot spells at people, which enables things like shooting Antimagic Fields and Solid Fogs while doing damage. However, to actually be able to do that, you need to be a caster and Arcane Archer doesn't advance your caster level. This means that Arcane Archer is basically only worth your while if you're almost a full spellcaster taking exactly two levels of it and even in this case, the full spellcaster (Wizard or whatever) is stronger until level 19 at least (where both have access to 9th level spells).

Examples of strong prestige classes include Archmage, Loremaster, Thaumaturgist. They are almost pure upgrades for their base classes and Archmage and Thaumaturgist in particular get fairly decent abilities too. Loremaster gets minor abilities but it gets good skills for a Wizard in particular.

For non-casters, the best prestige classes are probably Assassin (it gets spellcasting, which is great), Blackguard (it gets accelerated spellcasting, which is nice), Dragon Disciple (it gets massive stat boosts, which is better than anything a non-caster class gets; way worse than just being a caster though so you dip one-two levels of Bard or Sorcerer and full warrior the rest of the way) & Horizon Walker (the selling point is the 6th level ability "Planar Terrain Mastery" in Shifting, which allows you to Dimension Door once every 1d4 rounds - great for a non-caster).

Dwarven Defender is arguably an improvement over straight Fighter but that's only because straight Fighter doesn't give you a damn thing; its main class feature is horribly dysfunctional as enemies can just hit you from outside your reach and you just stand there taking a beating like a moron (or they can just walk around you) so it just gives you minor stat boosts. Shadowdancer is a 1-level dip for Rogues to get Hide in Plain Sight (if you're not going Assassin or want it early), Duelist is straight-up garbage, Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster/Mystic Theurge are worse than straight casters of any of those classes but better than mundanes so decent. Hierophant is pretty terrible until level 17, since it doesn't advance casting. After you have 9th level spells you can use it to take Divine Reach, which is nice though. Or you pump your Spell Power for Blasphemy.


In short though, no, Ranger doesn't want to PRC except maybe into Horizon Walker. Ranger keeps getting more spells and getting some cute class features as it levels so while not ideal, it's better than most PRCs you could enter.

In short:
Don't: Arcane Archer, Duelist, Dwarven Defender, Hierophant
Do: Archmage, Loremaster, Thaumaturgist
If you know what you are doing: Assassin, Blackguard, Dragon Disciple, Horizon Walker, Shadowdancer, Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge (these options tend to be weaker than full casters, stronger than or at least reasonable for most non-casters)


EDIT: Oh, Pathfinder. I wrote that from 3.5 perspective. Yeah, double-no. Pathfinder base classes are largely better than their 3.5 counterparts so you have a hard time defending most prestige classes even for casters as they get some nice stuff now.

[ngilop]

Actually.. Pathfinder's Arcane Archer isn't that bad.

Is it as good as full sorcerer/wizard? No. Is it going to be better than full ranger, mostly.


The issue comes down to what level of optimization your table plays at?

If it is standard GiTPer optimization then no, don't even take ranger be a full 9s caster (summoner included) or nothing.

If it is the assumed (what the APs are based against) optimization, then you are going to end up a bit ahead because now you have access to a complete new and improved set of abilities (arcane spells) and can launch said spells as arrows onto things.

In the end, what anybody says on the internet might not apply to you. What you can do is run a few mock encounters as your character with arcane archer levels and without and see which you like better.

I just know I had a PF party and we had a ranger/sorcerer/acane archer and she had a blast playing her character. But, i am (and most of who i play with) the opposite of a typical GiTPer when it comes to optimization.

[Eldariel]

It's true that PF Arcane Archer is much better than 3.5 Arcane Archer. There's also the Prestigious Spellcaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/prestigious-spellcaster/) feat, which allows e.g. Ranger 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer 10 to have almost full Wizard casting, access to Ranger Wands, tons of skill points, some nice class features, etc. You'd have to spend a total of 6 of your total 10ish feats to gain more caster levels though, which might or might not be worth it depending on your persuasion on that front. Alternatively, e.g. Slayer (Bounty Hunter) 2/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 2/Arcane Archer -> can be quite nice. Either way, you want to be shooting people with spells if you're an Arcane Archer. Imbue Arrow is still the best ability the class has by a fair margin, though PF Arcane Archer at least gets the arrow enhancements too (Phase Arrow, Seeking Arrow, Hail of Arrows and Arrow of Death are still largely junk, sadly).

[Peat]

It's true that PF Arcane Archer is much better than 3.5 Arcane Archer. There's also the Prestigious Spellcaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/prestigious-spellcaster/) feat, which allows e.g. Ranger 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer 10 to have almost full Wizard casting, access to Ranger Wands, tons of skill points, some nice class features, etc. You'd have to spend a total of 6 of your total 10ish feats to gain more caster levels though, which might or might not be worth it depending on your persuasion on that front. Alternatively, e.g. Slayer (Bounty Hunter) 2/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 2/Arcane Archer -> can be quite nice. Either way, you want to be shooting people with spells if you're an Arcane Archer. Imbue Arrow is still the best ability the class has by a fair margin, though PF Arcane Archer at least gets the arrow enhancements too (Phase Arrow, Seeking Arrow, Hail of Arrows and Arrow of Death are still largely junk, sadly).

While this is all true, I think from the perspective of an 8th level Ranger, you were probably right the first time (more or less) unless they want to do a lot of retraining.

[Psyren]

Yeah as you realized after the lengthy post there, PF Arcane Archer is actually pretty decent.

AA 8 is a good breakpoint to stop advancing Arcane Archer; Aligned Arrows and Arrow of Death aren't really worth needing another Prestigious Spellcaster feat to keep your casting up.

I would go Rgr 1/Wiz 6/EK 5/AA 8. That gets you +17 BAB, Wiz 16 casting without Prestigious Spellcaster (Wiz 18 with), and you get refunded a feat from EK 5, putting you two feats up on Eldariel's build. Diverse Training also means you count as a Wiz 11 for Arcane Discoveries. You can get the rest of the way to CL 20 via the Magical Knack trait.