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RoboEmperor
2019-04-05, 09:44 AM
A lit lantern can be used as a thrown weapon, dealing 1d4 points of fire damage to all creatures in squares adjacent to where it breaks.

A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don’t take the -4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target.

You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5. However, if you target a grid intersection, creatures in all adjacent squares are dealt the splash damage, and the direct hit damage is not dealt to any creature. (You can’t target a grid intersection occupied by a creature, such as a Large or larger creature; in this case, you’re aiming at the creature.)

If you miss the target (whether aiming at a creature or a grid intersection), roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with 1 being straight back at you and 2 through 8 counting clockwise around the grid intersection or target creature. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw.

After you determine where the weapon landed, it deals splash damage to all creatures in adjacent squares.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but
1. Lanterns deal 1d4 AoE damage against all creatures, not just swarm creatures
2. If you miss, your primary target will still get hit because no matter where the lantern lands, it will be adjacent to your primary target (assuming you're throwing 10ft).
3. Therefore, your attack doesn't matter, at all. You can be 6 dex and dual wield two lanterns for a grand total of -8 and -12 to your attacks and still hit your primary target.
4. Therefore Throwing 2 Lanterns on your first round is an absolutely phenomenal round 1 strategy and is superior to the Alchemist Fire in everyway.

Am I incorrect anywhere? I have an upcoming Age of Worms solo session and I plan on using Psionic Minor Creation to create these lanterns and bomb my way through the module so I need to know whether this is legit or not.

liquidformat
2019-04-05, 10:06 AM
No I think you are miss quoting the swarm entry.



Swarms are extremely difficult to fight with physical attacks. However, they have a few special vulnerabilities, as follows:

A lit torch swung as an improvised weapon deals 1d3 points of fire damage per hit.

A weapon with a special ability such as flaming or frost deals its full energy damage with each hit, even if the weapon’s normal damage can’t affect the swarm.

A lit lantern can be used as a thrown weapon, dealing 1d4 points of fire damage to all creatures in squares adjacent to where it breaks.

There by the lantern and its damage is specific to the swarm, they use the term 'all creatures' fro two reasons, one a swarm is made up of multiple creatures and two since swarm is a subtype they used all creatures as too not pigeonhole the ability to only animal swarms or vermin swarms...

So yes against a swarm a lantern is better than alchemist fire, against anything else it has no set damage.

Now the weird question this raises, if it deals 1d4 points of fire damage to all creatures in squares adjacent to where it breaks does that mean a swarm takes more than 1d4 damage if it takes up more than one 5'x5' square? Also does each creature inside the swarm take 1d4 or does the swarm as a whole take it?...

Psyren
2019-04-05, 10:12 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but
1. Lanterns deal 1d4 AoE damage against all creatures, not just swarm creatures

This line is from the Swarm vulnerabilities entry, so it's pretty clear that "all creatures" there means "all creatures in the swarm."

RoboEmperor
2019-04-05, 10:18 AM
No I think you are miss quoting the swarm entry.



There by the lantern and its damage is specific to the swarm, they use the term 'all creatures' fro two reasons, one a swarm is made up of multiple creatures and two since swarm is a subtype they used all creatures as too not pigeonhole the ability to only animal swarms or vermin swarms...

So yes against a swarm a lantern is better than alchemist fire, against anything else it has no set damage.

Now the weird question this raises, if it deals 1d4 points of fire damage to all creatures in squares adjacent to where it breaks does that mean a swarm takes more than 1d4 damage if it takes up more than one 5'x5' square? Also does each creature inside the swarm take 1d4 or does the swarm as a whole take it?...


This line is from the Swarm vulnerabilities entry, so it's pretty clear that "all creatures" there means "all creatures in the swarm."

Ok, yeah, the torch doing different damage than what it said in Goods and Services clinches this.

Bah, got excited for nothing. Thanks guys.

GrayDeath
2019-04-05, 10:18 AM
Just going by the title, because it kind of flashed me when I read it:

Yes, dual wielding Lantern Powers is effective. Sinestro for example combined Yellow and green effectively at times, as did Jordan and others.

My personal go to would probably be Orange and BLue though ^^


Jokes aside: the actual questionw as answered above.

Telonius
2019-04-05, 10:22 AM
I suppose a Drunken Master could dual-wield Lantern Archons...?

liquidformat
2019-04-05, 10:25 AM
I suppose a Drunken Master could dual-wield Lantern Archons...?

this seems reasonable

Mr Adventurer
2019-04-05, 01:09 PM
Seems like Minor Creation would create an empty lantern - not sure it's cost effective...

RoboEmperor
2019-04-05, 01:17 PM
Seems like Minor Creation would create an empty lantern - not sure it's cost effective...

One casting of minor creation creates 1 cubic feet of oil which amounts to 53 lbs of oil which amounts to 53 filled lanterns in one casting. It didn't occur to me that I could make a filled lantern since minor creation doesn't restrict you to one type of vegetable matter. Interesting...

Mr Adventurer
2019-04-05, 01:20 PM
Oh, you were going to actually buy lanterns to throw? Don't they break?

RoboEmperor
2019-04-05, 01:23 PM
Oh, you were going to actually buy lanterns to throw? Don't they break?

I was going to create as many lanterns as I could with minor creation (1 per casting at level 1), and then cast 1 minor creation to fill them all up. Now I'm thinking I can create filled lanterns with 1 casting.

Thurbane
2019-04-05, 05:37 PM
Well, there is a feat for TWF with a torch, that also works with a lantern: Weapon and Torch (Dng p.47).

Vizzerdrix
2019-04-05, 07:39 PM
Just want to point out fire poi from the pathfinder site. Gives free twf if I remember.

ShurikVch
2019-04-06, 06:43 AM
I suppose a Drunken Master could dual-wield Lantern Archons...?Note: Lantern Archon have Light Ray; by dual-wielding them, your PC can imitate Jango Fett (or, maybe, Clone Captain Rex?)