Issues with Time for Spell Preparation

[CerebralSewage]

Hey all,

I've recently run into some issues with my Wiz:6/Clr:1 that I'm playing. I'm working on going for Mystic Theurge and with two spellcasting classes under my belt, my full prep time daily is two hours.

Normally, I wouldn't feel that this would be too much of an issue, but members of my party tend to want to wander during my prep time. The last time this happened, they started an encounter that ate up most of the time we had set for our session. It was a bit frustrating to have to sit around waiting for combat to end, only to be a few minutes into my spell preparation.

I've talked to my DM about this and they suggested that I don't have to prepare all of my spells at once and that he doesn't want to attempt to stop other players from making their own decisions(understandably).

Has anyone else run into troubles with spell prep times? How did you overcome them?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Segev]

Just handle it in a jump cut. “Bob prepares his spells and then you’re on your way.” Or is the rogue okay with the party wandering off while he picks locks?

[Malphegor]

I thought wizards take 15 minutes but I may be mistaken.

[heavyfuel]

I thought wizards take 15 minutes but I may be mistaken.

Wizards take 15 minutes per one quarter of spell slots. So one hour to fully prepare


Until she prepares spells from her spellbook, the only spells a wizard has available to cast are the ones that she already had prepared from the previous day and has not yet used. During the study period, she chooses which spells to prepare. If a wizard already has spells prepared (from the previous day) that she has not cast, she can abandon some or all of them to make room for new spells.

When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of her spells.

[The Kool]

As mentioned, preparing only some of your spells is an option. However, I recommend asking your DM about the below 'arcane discovery' (really just a feat exclusive to Wizards) from Pathfinder. If your DM doesn't like it specifically, ask about different variations on the same idea, and how your Cleric preparation factors in. Finally, remember that you don't HAVE to prepare spells every single day. If you have any left over from the previous day, you keep them. So if your party has any days of downtime, you can get your prep out of the way early... Or you can ignore your Cleric spell prep entirely if you didn't cast any Cleric spells the previous day, and just keep what you had. So, even without any extra investments, if you only need to refill or change 1/4 of your wizard spells and none of your cleric spells it will take only 15 minutes.

Fast Study
Requires Wizard level 5
You can prepare all of your spells in only 15 minutes, and your minimum preparation time is only 1 minute.

[CerebralSewage]

Just handle it in a jump cut. “Bob prepares his spells and then you’re on your way.” Or is the rogue okay with the party wandering off while he picks locks?

We haven't had many jump cuts. Our DM likes to keep time as realistic as possible. When we've had them, we agreed that time is cut out for spell preparation, but it doesn't always work out when party members want to actively play during the time I need to prepare.


Wizards take 15 minutes per one quarter of spell slots. So one hour to fully prepare

I can/have cut time out of preparation as a wizard, but with a level in Cleric, I need to spend an additional hour to meditate.

I believe there is a feat that allows you to reduce the amount of time needed to prepare Arcane spells. But again, this is only part of the issue.

[CerebralSewage]

As mentioned, preparing only some of your spells is an option. However, I recommend asking your DM about the below 'arcane discovery' (really just a feat exclusive to Wizards) from Pathfinder. If your DM doesn't like it specifically, ask about different variations on the same idea, and how your Cleric preparation factors in. Finally, remember that you don't HAVE to prepare spells every single day. If you have any left over from the previous day, you keep them. So if your party has any days of downtime, you can get your prep out of the way early... Or you can ignore your Cleric spell prep entirely if you didn't cast any Cleric spells the previous day, and just keep what you had. So, even without any extra investments, if you only need to refill or change 1/4 of your wizard spells and none of your cleric spells it will take only 15 minutes.

Fast Study
Requires Wizard level 5
You can prepare all of your spells in only 15 minutes, and your minimum preparation time is only 1 minute.

I completely forgot that you don't need to prepare everyday. First time I've played a true spellcasting class.

Thanks for the tip on the Arcane Discovery. I'm certain our DM will be happy to put something like this into play.

[The Kool]

I completely forgot that you don't need to prepare everyday. First time I've played a true spellcasting class.

Thanks for the tip on the Arcane Discovery. I'm certain our DM will be happy to put something like this into play.

With that feat, you can say "hey guys, give me 5 minutes, be right down" and refresh as much as 1/3 of your spell slots (it's not a bad idea to leave some open for later prep, with that feat you can sit down and fill in a slot or two in only a minute based on what the situation needs, as often as you want during the day). You will still have trouble once you start using Cleric spell slots, as you can't shorten that recovery time.

[Segev]

We haven't had many jump cuts. Our DM likes to keep time as realistic as possible. When we've had them, we agreed that time is cut out for spell preparation, but it doesn't always work out when party members want to actively play during the time I need to prepare.

The issue here is "they want to play while I'm preparing." Why? Do they never have anything they do that requires downtime that you have to sit through?

I mean, you say the DM keeps time realistic. What does that mean? Does that mean he forces you to sit there for 2 hours of IRL time to prepare your spells? Otherwise, it costs the other players nothing to say, "We eat breakfast and break camp while he does that." There are things they can be doing during that down time.

Or you could get up two hours earlier than they do and take care of it.

I can't see how this is any different than the fighter and rogue deciding they want to "keep playing" while the lazy spellcasters sleep, and so go have adventures while the rest of the party is sleeping the night away. It's not like they actually need 8 hours of sleep.

Are there elves in the party? Do they insist on solo adventuring when they're done with their 4 hours of meditation and the rest of the party is still sleeping?

This is only a problem that arises because your prep time is being treated differently than the myriad other times the party has to wait for some members to take care of things.

[Shnoogie]

I am in that group. And died due to the Satyr running around doing whatever.

So I think our issue is our group dynamic. We need to talk more in game but our sessions can be a bit chaotic due to the environment we play in.

I'm going to try to talk more to our group out of game about these things and see how we can handle it.

Biggest issue might be that the player that runs around doing whatever is the GM's wife. We don't want to say/do something that will rub them the wrong way.

Rock (us) hardplace

[The Kool]

I am in that group. And died due to the Satyr running around doing whatever.

So I think our issue is our group dynamic. We need to talk more in game but our sessions can be a bit chaotic due to the environment we play in.

I'm going to try to talk more to our group out of game about these things and see how we can handle it.

Biggest issue might be that the player that runs around doing whatever is the GM's wife. We don't want to say/do something that will rub them the wrong way.

Rock (us) hardplace
Well, if the wife running around doing whatever is the worst of your issues with her, that's not terrible. Tactfully bringing it up and asking for a little more cooperation can work just fine. If it doesn't, you may have bigger fish to fry here. If you have a pervasive problem with the DM letting his wife do whatever and her taking full advantage of it, then you clearly do have said bigger fish to fry. I know nothing about them or their behaviors aside from the little you've shared, so I won't judge. I will recommend you talk to them about it, and if they're not willing to budge, then you will have to ask yourself if dealing with that dynamic is worth being in the group, or not.

[CerebralSewage]

The issue here is "they want to play while I'm preparing." Why? Do they never have anything they do that requires downtime that you have to sit through?

We do have a Cleric, so yeah, there are other players that need to prep. But that didn't prevent the rest of the party from moving on.


I mean, you say the DM keeps time realistic. What does that mean? Does that mean he forces you to sit there for 2 hours of IRL time to prepare your spells? Otherwise, it costs the other players nothing to say, "We eat breakfast and break camp while he does that." There are things they can be doing during that down time.

Or you could get up two hours earlier than they do and take care of it.

I may have misunderstood what you meant. I do get opportunities like this to prepare spells. But resting is another story. The DM spends time working with active players, and that can/has take a considerable amount of time IRL.


Are there elves in the party? Do they insist on solo adventuring when they're done with their 4 hours of meditation and the rest of the party is still sleeping?

This is only a problem that arises because your prep time is being treated differently than the myriad other times the party has to wait for some members to take care of things.

We have a Satyr party member who only requires 4 hours of rest and they do, in fact, insist on doing things while the rest of the party is indisposed, which led to me sitting around last session.

I guess, I posted to try and proactively resolve an issue I've experienced with game mechanics instead of attempting to change party dynamic.

[Malphegor]

One way you can sort things out in-game is take a level of dweomerkeeper. Mantle of spells lets you pick one spell you can convert existing spells to on the fly. So if you prepare your spells piecemeal across the day, you’re never fully unprepared because every equal or higher slot is that one spell if you need it.

But this seems to be an out of game thing to be sorted

[Segev]

We do have a Cleric, so yeah, there are other players that need to prep. But that didn't prevent the rest of the party from moving on.So they leave both of you behind and insist that they get time to monopolize the GM while you're not allowed to play because you and the cleric are prepping?


I may have misunderstood what you meant. I do get opportunities like this to prepare spells. But resting is another story. The DM spends time working with active players, and that can/has take a considerable amount of time IRL.It's not "active players." It's "characters deliberately acting when the other characters are not allowed to." THat's a huge difference.


We have a Satyr party member who only requires 4 hours of rest and they do, in fact, insist on doing things while the rest of the party is indisposed, which led to me sitting around last session.So it's not "the party," but this one PC who's dominating the IRL game time by monopolizing the DM whenever heshe (just saw it was the DM's wife) gets the chance to claim the spotlight by insisting on acting when others are sleeping?


I guess, I posted to try and proactively resolve an issue I've experienced with game mechanics instead of attempting to change party dynamic.This is a table dynamic problem before it's a party dynamic problem.

The things that I-don't-need-to-spend-time-sleeping-or-preparing characters should be doing include: standing watch, working on magic items or other personal projects that are best time-skipped past, shopping (in situations where it's not going to spark an adventure just for them and can be handled before or after the session), or perhaps (given it's a satyr) out carousing in something that can be handled with a simple sentence.

"Bob and Alice wake up from their 8 hours of sleep and pray for and prepare spells, just in time for Pan to get back from his night of partying." If Pan picked up anything useful or interesting, it should be handled quickly, not RP'd. "Pan, roll me some Gather Info? Okay, you heard a rumor about [plot hook for quest adventure], and that you could get more information later at [time and place where whole party can be together to receive it]."

Now the solo-actor's solo-acts are useful, but take no more time from the DM than preparing all your spells or resting for 8 hours.


You're not coming up with a mechanical solution to a problem with a player-group dynamic that is permitting one or a few players to monopolize the DM by insisting on acting at times the others cannot.

[Shnoogie]

Yeah I agree Segev, this is definitely something we should address out of game and have a simple in game conversation about schedules and how we can all help each other succeed and not kill the cleric.

We did talk to the DM and he said that the Satyr is under alot of pressure to complete her quest and that's why she rushes. We both need to know this in game, which we don't so it's a communication issue at this point.

I'll just roll a new guy with a preferred enemy as Satyrs lol jk.

[CerebralSewage]

Thanks for the insight guys. I suppose it makes the most sense to work on the table dynamic.

Confrontation sucks.

[ngilop]

Yeah this is a 100% OOC need to have a chat with the disruptive player and a DM who lets it happen issue.

been playing for uhmm.. 32 years now and literally this is the first time I have even HEARD of a group not just handwaving the 'caster prepares spells while the rest of us break camp' hand wave.


If there is a player who insist on going off instead of literally just saying "lets speed this along. we just shoot the bull till the casters have their spells" and rather say " while the rest of the party is trying to play their characters I am going to go off and do anything I can just cuz I can'


SO basically the issue is the ol' DM's girlfriend has a character issue, but now it is his wife So if you do talk OOC with it, expect LOTS of blowback.


still cannot get over how a player can be such a jerk as to not just say let you get spells. literally 32 years... THIRTY TWO YEARS and this is a complete first for me. I would have quit the first time it happened. If you just cannot be a team player and not be such a (bad word not allowed to say, but it is also recognize by the AKC) that you just hand wave all the boring stuff.

Id prob slap the DM, like dude. really you can't just say 'ok your have your spells lets go on' literally takes 4 seconds, But NOOO you have to have your wife run around and ruin the experience for EVERYBODY ELSE. why be a rooster?

[Torpin]

who is your divine patron? because if its a god of magic, you can say studying magic is your morning prayer and thus eliminate two birds with one stones

[Torpin]

been playing for uhmm.. 32 years now and literally this is the first time I have even HEARD of a group not just handwaving the 'caster prepares spells while the rest of us break camp' hand wave.
ive had one exception in my 20 years of dnd where it was due to the actions of npcs. this is ridiculous.

ask them to do their solo play when everyone else isnt there

[The Kool]

who is your divine patron? because if its a god of magic, you can say studying magic is your morning prayer and thus eliminate two birds with one stones

This is actually a brilliant idea.

And I wouldn't call it 'ridiculous', but it is definitely rude to the table and anti-party. If it's something that takes 10-15 minutes tops, it's not such a big deal. If it's hours as you suggested, I quite possibly would have just... left. Like dude, I came here to play D&D, not watch you play D&D. Monopolizing the DM when you have no real reason to is just... Rude.

[Malphegor]

I generally assume the spellcasters are getting their spells ready during breakfast/morning preparations etc. Does this group assume their adventuring party just sprouts into wakefulness with no breakfast, no beverage, no stretches? Are they all robots?

I assume this is normally abstracted in most games, but there's at least an hour or 2 in every day that goes kinda unmentioned in which the adventurers presumably get themselves ready for any conflict they're going to face that day, including oiling weapons and maintaining their gear. Spell prep comes in that time imo

[The Kool]

I generally assume the spellcasters are getting their spells ready during breakfast/morning preparations etc. Does this group assume their adventuring party just sprouts into wakefulness with no breakfast, no beverage, no stretches? Are they all robots?

I assume this is normally abstracted in most games, but there's at least an hour or 2 in every day that goes kinda unmentioned in which the adventurers presumably get themselves ready for any conflict they're going to face that day, including oiling weapons and maintaining their gear. Spell prep comes in that time imo

Actually, if you look at the various time frames, there's about 6-8 'lost hours'. D&D assumes 8 hours of rest and 8 hours of work or travel time. In your standard day (based on a no-electricity society and my experience camping), I think we can assume that most people spend about 2 hours after sunset having dinner and socializing from the day, then sleep about 8 hours and get up right before dawn. The next 1-2 hours are spent getting ready for the day and having breakfast, which would generally include spell prep. Of the 12 remaining hours, 8 for travel/work, with an hour of rest somewhere in there, leaving 3-4 hours in the evening of time off. At any rate, that's just a possible 'average day'.

[CerebralSewage]

Talked to the DM and he was very understanding. He said he would be happy to make sure that the sitting around thing doesn't happen again. He also understood my hesitation to bring up the issue with table dynamic.

Also, digging the idea to mix arcane and divine spell prep. Maybe he'll go for it.

I appreciate all the help again, guys. Thanks for being supportive to a first-time poster.

[The Kool]

Talked to the DM and he was very understanding. He said he would be happy to make sure that the sitting around thing doesn't happen again. He also understood my hesitation to bring up the issue with table dynamic.

Also, digging the idea to mix arcane and divine spell prep. Maybe he'll go for it.

I appreciate all the help again, guys. Thanks for being supportive to a first-time poster.

No stress, sounds like you hit an ideal scenario. Hope it all goes well.