[3.5] Problems with Sleet Storm

[Gen Melchett]

The sleet storm spell description (PHB 280) reads:


Driving sleet blocks all sight (even darkvision) within it and causes the ground in the area to be icy. A creature can walk within or through the area of sleet at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. Failure means it can’t move in that round, while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Balance skill for details). The sleet extinguishes torches and small fires.

Does “blocks all sight within it” mean you are effectively blind, as though you were in total darkness without darkvision? There are several other spells and items that talk about blocking sight like this, for example:

Pyrotechnics states (PHB 267):

All sight, even darkvision, is ineffective in or through the cloud.

Eversmoking bottle is based on the pyrotechnics spell and states (DMG 258):

…totally obscuring vision across a 50-foot spread…

If sleet storm does make you effectively blind, then when within the area your speed would be further reduced by half and you would get a -4 penalty on most str and dex skill checks. This would result in the spell allowing you to walk within it at only one quarter normal speed with a DC 10 balance check at a -4 penalty.

This is a big boost in power level for the spell, but I don’t see how you can ignore the blindness penalties unless you assume the spell already takes them into account. Even this is problematic, because then we are to believe the icy ground produced by the spell does not hamper movement (which ice is stated to do in table 9-4, PHB 163) more than requiring a balance check. Furthermore, how can the blindness penalty be factored into the balance check if it’s a skill penalty and not a DC modifier?

[Gullintanni]

The sleet storm spell description (PHB 280) reads:



Does “blocks all sight within it” mean you are effectively blind, as though you were in total darkness without darkvision? There are several other spells and items that talk about blocking sight like this, for example:

Pyrotechnics states (PHB 267):


Eversmoking bottle is based on the pyrotechnics spell and states (DMG 258):


If sleet storm does make you effectively blind, then when within the area your speed would be further reduced by half and you would get a -4 penalty on most str and dex skill checks. This would result in the spell allowing you to walk within it at only one quarter normal speed with a DC 10 balance check at a -4 penalty.

This is a big boost in power level for the spell, but I don’t see how you can ignore the blindness penalties unless you assume the spell already takes them into account. Even this is problematic, because then we are to believe the icy ground produced by the spell does not hamper movement (which ice is stated to do in table 9-4, PHB 163) more than requiring a balance check. Furthermore, how can the blindness penalty be factored into the balance check if it’s a skill penalty and not a DC modifier?

By RAW, a spell does only what it says it does. The spell does not inflict the blindness condition unless it says it does. Specific status effects and conditions must be called out in order for the penalties associated with those conditions to apply. There is a logical disconnect because, from a functional perspective, having your vision obscured is identical to being blind... But that's not what the spell says it does. :smallsigh::smallsigh:

EDIT: The other significant major consequences from the eversmoking bottle, pyrotechnics, and sleet storm is that everything inside the area of effect gets concealment, and everything outside the area of effect has concealment from everything inside the area of effect.

From the SRD:

Total Concealment
If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).

EDIT: One final addendum. Sleet Storm specifically snuffs torches, and if memory serves (I could be wrong so please check), if there is no light, then characters are effectively blinded. Which means that if you're caught in the area of a Sleet Storm, outdoors on a sunny day, you're not blinded, but if you're caught in the area of a Sleet Storm, in a dungeon, with no darkvision, and there's no light source nearby, then you are blinded. How's that for pedantry.

Maybe just house rule this one?

[Gen Melchett]

Wow, thanks for the thorough answer! Your memory serves you well, a character is "effectively blinded" in an area of darkness according to the vision and light section (PHB 164).
I think I'll house rule it so everyone within is effectively blinded no matter the light conditions. I don't think it makes it too powerful for a third level spell. Blacklight accomplishes similar battlefield control with the huge bonus of allowing you to see normally in it. It certainly makes it significantly better than before, but I'm a fan of using core spells after the spell compendium has swooped everyone off their feet.

[Doctor Awkward]

Sleet Storm is one of the most devastating battlefield control spells in all of D&D.

Firstly, being unable to see halves your movement rate (see the 4th sentence under Vision and Light (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#visionAndLight)). As the icy terrain halves your movement rate again, creatures within the effect move at only one quarter their normal rate with each move action. That means a small creatures can move only 10 feet per round spending their entire turn moving. A creature with a Dexterity bonus of zero and no ranks in Balance has a 50% chance every round of being stuck in place, and a 25% chance of falling prone.

Secondly, the area covered by this spell is utterly massive. a 40-foot radius cylinder that is 20 feet high covers over 100,000 cubic feet of area. On the ground it works out to a surface area of about 200 five-foot squares. This can be half of an entire play mat for some smaller maps. A typical creature caught at the center of the effect, even if they are cognizant enough to move in a straight line, will require a minimum of five rounds to leave it. And that's without accounting for their Balance checks each round.

The majority of creatures caught in a sleet storm are removed from combat for the duration, unless they have some magical means of extricating themselves from the effect, or dispelling it.

[Gen Melchett]

So do you think you shouldn't be considered blinded in it, or are you just commenting on how good it is?

I understand how good battlefield control spells are generally. With this spell specifically though I think it's important to note that even if it does completely remove those trapped in it from the fight, intelligent enemies not caught in it could willingly enter its area to avoid being picked off while they're separated from their allies, waiting out the spells duration in relative safety. The stupidly large area can also be detrimental when space is limited.

As you point out though this is certainly a very powerful spell.

[SirNibbles]

Blindness regardless of lighting seems reasonable.

I know this is definitely not the best source for rulings, but in DDO (which is based on 3.5), Sleet Storm clarifies that blocks all vision means attackers are blinded, even if they have darkvision.

[Doctor Awkward]

So do you think you shouldn't be considered blinded in it, or are you just commenting on how good it is?

I understand how good battlefield control spells are generally. With this spell specifically though I think it's important to note that even if it does completely remove those trapped in it from the fight, intelligent enemies not caught in it could willingly enter its area to avoid being picked off while they're separated from their allies, waiting out the spells duration in relative safety. The stupidly large area can also be detrimental when space is limited.

As you point out though this is certainly a very powerful spell.

For some reason in your first post you seemed unsure. That was a testimonial that, yes, the spell is incredibly strong for it's level.

And yes, you are treated as though you are blind inside of a sleet storm.

[Gen Melchett]

Oh I see. I was mostly trying to emphasize how much better it becomes if you assume it effectively causes blindness, it was unclear though I admit. Thanks for the reply.