S&M Spells

[Cheesegear]

This should be my last question for a while...

Somatic (S) components requires one free hand.
Material (M) components require a free hand, however, the same hand may be used for Somatics, as well.

Focuses (e.g; a Shield, Staff, Wand, etc.) replace M components.

If you can hold a Focus (M) in one hand, and use the same hand for S...
If a Character can use the same hand for S, and M, what is the second dot-point of War Caster for?

Or have I got it completely wrong?

[Misterwhisper]

This should be my last question for a while...

Somatic (S) components requires one free hand.
Material (M) components require a free hand, however, the same hand may be used for Somatics, as well.

Focuses (e.g; a Shield, Staff, Wand, etc.) replace M components.

If you can hold a Focus (M) in one hand, and use the same hand for S...
If a Character can use the same hand for S, and M, what is the second dot-point of War Caster for?

Or have I got it completely wrong?

You really need a different topic title...

I was thinking something very different.

[Merudo]

This should be my last question for a while...

Somatic (S) components requires one free hand.
Material (M) components require a free hand, however, the same hand may be used for Somatics, as well.

Focuses (e.g; a Shield, Staff, Wand, etc.) replace M components.

If you can hold a Focus (M) in one hand, and use the same hand for S...
If a Character can use the same hand for S, and M, what is the second dot-point of War Caster for?

Or have I got it completely wrong?

War Caster is for "S but not M" spells, like Absorb Elements or Shield.

[Cheesegear]

You really need a different topic title...

I was thinking something very different.

As long as it made you read the question. :smallwink:
Unfortunately, you didn't answer the question.


War Caster is for "S but not M" spells, like Absorb Elements or Shield.

I assume that that's for classes that can't use a Focus, sure. But what about Classes that can?

[Willie the Duck]

The focus 'solution' solves the situation for spells with exactly both S and M. If you do not have material requirements, the focus does not replace the somatic components. Thus, for example, a cleric with an emblem holy symbol on their shield cannot cast a spell while having shield and weapon in hand, unless the spell includes a material component.

Beyond that, the second pip is for anyone who wants to do something else, like wield two weapons and not have a focus at all, or the like.

[darknite]

Great! Spaniards and Mexicans!

[diplomancer]

For Somatic spells without a Material component. By Raw, if you dont have a free hand, even if one of your hands is holding a focus, you can't cast a spell with S but no M requirements without this feat.

That said, I greatly dislike this rule, and as a DM tend to ignore it, and as a player tend to forget it. For me, spell component rules should not be to make casters look like jugglers, but to adjudicate what kind of spells can be cast in a silent zone, or gagged, or with your hands tied, etc; secondarily, to limit the casting of some spells by costly material components.

[Misterwhisper]

Some classes can not use certain things as foci:

Ex. A cleric or paladin can emblazon their shield as their focus but a druid can't, with the right invocation a warlock and certain bards can use a weapon as a focus.
Also some classes can't use a focus, like Eldritch Knights or Rangers.

Also, a focus can only replace them if they have BOTH Somatic and Material components.

Certain spells that only have one of those can't be replaced.

Warcaster's Second don't frees all that up.

You could play a Fighter/Wizard and go sword and shield and still cast spells.

There are ways to not need that dot for some spells and class combinations but not all of them.

[Corpsecandle717]

A shield is not a standard focus so any class that wants to be able to use a sword and board while casting benefits from the second line. ( I guess a shield is acceptable for a cleric or a paladin?)

Staff is a bit more tricky as a (focus) staff and a (combat) staff aren't the same thing (their cost is significantly different). I imagine most DMs will allow the (focus) staff to work as a (combat) staff without penalty, but maybe not.

I also imagine there's some dual wielding arcane tricksters that could take advantage of the feat.

[Cheesegear]

Thus, for example, a cleric with an emblem holy symbol on their shield cannot cast a spell while having shield and weapon in hand, unless the spell includes a material component.

Okay. So if I read that correctly...

M spells are fine... S and M spells are fine (as per the title of the thread).

'S but not M' is out, and that's what War Caster is for.

Got it.
I think.

[Millstone85]

Really, when are S&M spells treated differently than M spells?

[JackPhoenix]

Okay. So if I read that correctly...

M spells are fine... S and M spells are fine (as per the title of the thread).

'S but not M' is out, and that's what War Caster is for.

Got it.
I think.

Yep, that about sums it up.

[Angelalex242]

I had a very different topic in mind when I saw this thread

[MrWesson22]

You really need a different topic title...

I was thinking something very different.

You mean like dominate monster? Or symbol (of pain)?

[PhantomSoul]

You mean like dominate monster? Or symbol (of pain)?

It's clearly just asking what you can do while gagged!

[Chronos]

Quoth Corpsecandle717:

Staff is a bit more tricky as a (focus) staff and a (combat) staff aren't the same thing (their cost is significantly different). I imagine most DMs will allow the (focus) staff to work as a (combat) staff without penalty, but maybe not.
One of my characters had a staff that could be used either to cast a couple of spells using charges, or as a magic weapon. So presumably it's possible to have an item that's both... except that the rules never actually say that a staff/wand that casts spells using charges can be used as a focus for other spells.

The issue of M being a benefit also comes up with the Instruments of the Bards, a collection of magic items from the DMG. One of their benefits is that any spell that charms the target has its save made at disadvantage, if cast using the instrument as a focus. But the vast majority of spells that charm don't have M components: IIRC, the only ones that do are Charm Animal and Hypnotic Pattern. I think there was errata for that, to let you basically add the instrument as a focus for those spells anyway.

[Misterwhisper]

It's clearly just asking what you can do while gagged!

For those who live dangerous, lightning lash.