Hlal And Aasterinian Are The Same Dragon Deity

[Bartmanhomer]

Ok in the Forgetton realms campaign Hlal and Aasterinian are the same dragon deity. Hlal is Chaotic Good Dragon Deity who happen to have a Lesser Deity divine power and Aasterinian who a Chaotic Neutral Dragon Deity who happen to be a Demigod divine power. This one really puzzled me, how is Hlal and Aasterinian the same dragon deity with different divine power status? Can somebody please explain to me on this one? :confused:

[KillianHawkeye]

Where does it say they're the same deity? :smallconfused:

[The Insanity]

Citations needed.

[Bartmanhomer]

Where does it say they're the same deity? :smallconfused:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Hlal

[Remuko]

Takhisis from dragonlance (iirc) and Tiamat are the same Dragon Diety as well.

[The Insanity]

It's simple really. They're gods and work by their own rules. Much of which are dependant on their worshipers. For example gods can have aspects, which can be gods in their own right.

[Pippa the Pixie]

Hlal is a lesser power dragon god, that sometimes uses an aspect(avatar) named Aasterinian. In the D&D mythology a god can ''break off" small parts of themselves to do a task or take care of something. Naturaly, Aasterinian as it's only part of the whole god, is only a demi power.

Hlal even has a third aspect: Avachel and (maybe) fourth one: Nathair Sgiathach.

[KillianHawkeye]

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Hlal

Okay, well I don't automatically believe whatever I read on a wiki, but if you want them to be the same deity I would say you should pick one of the two entries and go with it. It's not like most gods need stats unless you're actually going to go fight them, right?

[Bartmanhomer]

Okay, well I don't automatically believe whatever I read on a wiki, but if you want them to be the same deity I would say you should pick one of the two entries and go with it. It's not like most gods need stats unless you're actually going to go fight them, right?

I never said anything about fighting deities. This actually surprises me that Hlal and Aasterinian are the same deities. And Remuko mentioned that Takhisis and Tiamat are also the same deities as well.

[KillianHawkeye]

Takhisis and Tiamat being the same deity is common knowledge. They're just different names for the same thing. It's Takhisis in Dragonlance, and Tiamat in other settings. Same goes for Paladine in Dragonlance being Bahamut. Their descriptions are basically identical, just in different worlds.

But your other comparison between Hlal and Aasterinian, that doesn't seem to exist anywhere except that wiki page you linked before. I can't find anything about it in my Forgotten Realms books, and they are definitely different deities in the Draconomicon and other 3.5 book resources that mention them.

But if you're not going to have your PCs fight these dragon deities, what does it matter if there are two names for the same thing in your world? If Hlal and Aasterinian actually were the same, what difference is it if one is statted out as a lesser deity and the other is a demigod? Or if their alignments are different? People worship whatever they're going to worship, and there are plenty of cases where a deity or demon lord or something else pretends to be a different deity.

People think that Pelor the Burning Hate is an Evil version of Pelor. If you want that in your game, then there could be two conflicting stories about the same deity. Same goes for Hlal/Aasterinian, if you want to go that way.

If you really don't care about the deity's stats, then what is your question exactly?

[Bartmanhomer]

Takhisis and Tiamat being the same deity is common knowledge. They're just different names for the same thing. It's Takhisis in Dragonlance, and Tiamat in other settings. Same goes for Paladine in Dragonlance being Bahamut. Their descriptions are basically identical, just in different worlds.

But your other comparison between Hlal and Aasterinian, that doesn't seem to exist anywhere except that wiki page you linked before. I can't find anything about it in my Forgotten Realms books, and they are definitely different deities in the Draconomicon and other 3.5 book resources that mention them.

But if you're not going to have your PCs fight these dragon deities, what does it matter if there are two names for the same thing in your world? If Hlal and Aasterinian actually were the same, what difference is it if one is statted out as a lesser deity and the other is a demigod? Or if their alignments are different? People worship whatever they're going to worship, and there are plenty of cases where a deity or demon lord or something else pretends to be a different deity.

People think that Pelor the Burning Hate is an Evil version of Pelor. If you want that in your game, then there could be two conflicting stories about the same deity. Same goes for Hlal/Aasterinian, if you want to go that way.

If you really don't care about the deity's stats, then what is your question exactly?
I already ask a question how is Hlal and Aasterinian the same deity? But my question have been answered already.

[HouseRules]

Deities may have "Aspects" high level manifestation of themselves.
Deities may have "Avatars" low level manifestation of themselves.

Aspects may themselves become deities.

Avatars are "mortal" representation of deities, so those are kill-able.
Aspects are more powerful than Avatars, but they also have statistics, so they are also kill-able.
Many Deities also have stats, so they are also kill-able, but not all Deities have statistics.
Any being stronger than Deities do not have statistics.

[Pippa the Pixie]

I already ask a question how is Hlal and Aasterinian the same deity? But my question have been answered already.

The Planescape/Spelljammer explination:

Not every deity is worshiped on every world in Known Space on the Prime Materal Plane. While mere mortals don't know the numbers, the power level of a god sets how many worlds they can have worshipers on. And it's a risk, as the deity becomes lined to the power from the worshipers....and if the religion dies, the deity loses that power.

So with this in mind, a lot of deities make low power aspects of themselves to ''test the waters" of a world. That way, if the worst happens the deity only loses the small amount of power they put in the aspect.

An aspect is also a way to ''hide" (a bit in plain sight to other deities, of course) the deity having infulence and contact on a world.

Also, if the deity has a superior or is part of a pantheon, they might not be given permission to seek worship on a new world. But they often allow a deity to do the ''test'' aspect. And from the other side, if the world in question has a dominant pantheon, they might not allow the deity onto the world....but will allow an aspect; and often they will demand things and changes to the aspect.

Finally, a deity might kill and adsorb another deity(most often a lesser powered one or a vulnerable one). In this case, they will keep the appearance of the dead deity alive as an aspect that is identical to the dead deity. This allows the main deity to keep the power flow from the dead deity form themselves. They might just keep it like that, with the mortals clueless, or they might slowly merge their two religions into one.

Real World:

In the early '90's two books came out for 2E:

Monster Mythology: that had a bunch of 'monster' gods, including dragon gods and Draconomicon: a Forgotten Realms book all about dragons, including dragon gods.

The two lists of dragon gods from the two books did not match up.

Later, in the 90's the FR book the Cult of the Dragon ''corrected" the two lists of dragon gods, for FR, with the aspects idea.

[Bartmanhomer]

The Planescape/Spelljammer explination:

Not every deity is worshiped on every world in Known Space on the Prime Materal Plane. While mere mortals don't know the numbers, the power level of a god sets how many worlds they can have worshipers on. And it's a risk, as the deity becomes lined to the power from the worshipers....and if the religion dies, the deity loses that power.

So with this in mind, a lot of deities make low power aspects of themselves to ''test the waters" of a world. That way, if the worst happens the deity only loses the small amount of power they put in the aspect.

An aspect is also a way to ''hide" (a bit in plain sight to other deities, of course) the deity having infulence and contact on a world.

Also, if the deity has a superior or is part of a pantheon, they might not be given permission to seek worship on a new world. But they often allow a deity to do the ''test'' aspect. And from the other side, if the world in question has a dominant pantheon, they might not allow the deity onto the world....but will allow an aspect; and often they will demand things and changes to the aspect.

Finally, a deity might kill and adsorb another deity(most often a lesser powered one or a vulnerable one). In this case, they will keep the appearance of the dead deity alive as an aspect that is identical to the dead deity. This allows the main deity to keep the power flow from the dead deity form themselves. They might just keep it like that, with the mortals clueless, or they might slowly merge their two religions into one.

Real World:

In the early '90's two books came out for 2E:

Monster Mythology: that had a bunch of 'monster' gods, including dragon gods and Draconomicon: a Forgotten Realms book all about dragons, including dragon gods.

The two lists of dragon gods from the two books did not match up.

Later, in the 90's the FR book the Cult of the Dragon ''corrected" the two lists of dragon gods, for FR, with the aspects idea.
That's explain a lot on how Hlal and Aasterinian the same deities.