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View Full Version : DM Help Dry Lich LA - is it appropriate, and should it change if you enter from WitW?



Albions_Angel
2019-04-06, 08:56 AM
Hi all,

First, a bit of background. I wont spoiler it as its actually relevant. I have had this plot line knocking around for a few years after seeing a post on here that I have since lost. It involves a recurring and strengthening BBEG from one area of my world entering another.

The basic idea is to have the PCs in my snowy region perform a quest early on to recover some archaeological artifacts from a shipwreck. After an encounter with some poorly embalmed asherati "mummies" (zombies), the party recovers a few things, including a canopic jar, for a noble. Now, they go off to other things. Meanwhile, making use of the fact that it doesnt specify which jar a Dry Lich spawns at after death, and thus interpreting it as "its random", a Dry Lich forms in the snowy region. Hes fairly standard, Cleric 3, WitW 10, Dry Lich. The party starts seeing evidence of him, and eventually has an initial encounter with him as a Dry Lich somewhere around when the party is level 8 (he will flee). His plan is to start taking levels in Winterhaunt (I am comfortable as DM handwaving a couple of the entry requirements). All this would culminate in the final battle when the party is around level 13, where Mr Lich has his 13 levels, his lichhood, and probably 3 levels in Winterhaunt. I can tailor how I play him so I dont overwhelm the party.

The point of me making this thread is, the LA on the Dry Lich is punishing. I can sort of understand it if you are tacking dry lich onto a random commoner, but if you achieve it through WitW, it seems rather... redundant? But while I am happy to rule away entry requirements, I am less comfortable with LA (and CR). And at +5, the current LA makes my idea impossible.

So what LA would the playground give the Dry Lich? Would it be the same for both tacking it onto a creature AND entering through WitW?

KillianHawkeye
2019-04-06, 10:57 AM
If it's for a villain NPC, the level adjustment literally doesn't matter. It means nothing.

Falontani
2019-04-06, 11:39 AM
1. Dry Lich is CR +3, meaning your dry lich would be CR 19 (if using human or another normal race as a base)
2. According to Inevitability's LA reassignment thread lich got turned into LA+2 iirc. Dry lich =/= lich, however the two of them are very close in power, so I'd be comfortable to guess that according to the playground it will be la+2.
3. Dread Necromancer, Walker in the Waste, and Death Master upon completion all grant lichdom, and it's commonly viewed that forcing these classes to take the la makes them poor choices, and it's often suggested to take them away if your the dm

flare'90
2019-04-06, 12:40 PM
Hi all,

First, a bit of background. I wont spoiler it as its actually relevant. I have had this plot line knocking around for a few years after seeing a post on here that I have since lost. It involves a recurring and strengthening BBEG from one area of my world entering another.

The basic idea is to have the PCs in my snowy region perform a quest early on to recover some archaeological artifacts from a shipwreck. After an encounter with some poorly embalmed asherati "mummies" (zombies), the party recovers a few things, including a canopic jar, for a noble. Now, they go off to other things. Meanwhile, making use of the fact that it doesnt specify which jar a Dry Lich spawns at after death, and thus interpreting it as "its random", a Dry Lich forms in the snowy region. Hes fairly standard, Cleric 3, WitW 10, Dry Lich. The party starts seeing evidence of him, and eventually has an initial encounter with him as a Dry Lich somewhere around when the party is level 8 (he will flee). His plan is to start taking levels in Winterhaunt (I am comfortable as DM handwaving a couple of the entry requirements). All this would culminate in the final battle when the party is around level 13, where Mr Lich has his 13 levels, his lichhood, and probably 3 levels in Winterhaunt. I can tailor how I play him so I dont overwhelm the party.

The point of me making this thread is, the LA on the Dry Lich is punishing. I can sort of understand it if you are tacking dry lich onto a random commoner, but if you achieve it through WitW, it seems rather... redundant? But while I am happy to rule away entry requirements, I am less comfortable with LA (and CR). And at +5, the current LA makes my idea impossible.

So what LA would the playground give the Dry Lich? Would it be the same for both tacking it onto a creature AND entering through WitW?

Officially the LA from the Half-Dragon template is waived if you acquire it using the Dragon Disciple PrC. I'd make WitW work the same way, and extend this to other classes that grant templates to the character taking them.