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View Full Version : IS this as devestating a debuff as I think it is?



SangoProduction
2019-04-08, 07:25 AM
Aquan Transformation

You may grant the form of a swimming animal or magical beast with your shapeshift. The form has a head, fins, and no arms or legs. The target gains low-light vision and a 20 ft Swim speed which improves by 20 ft for every 5 caster levels. The target gains the Amphibious subtype and the ability to breathe underwater. The target also gains a bite attack (Primary, 1d6, 1d4 small), Blindsense 30 ft (which only functions in water), and a +2 natural AC bonus, which increases by 1 for every 5 caster levels.

So I initially saw the Alteration sphere and went "Eh. It's neat" And then when I saw the talent Twisted Transformation, which does some relatively minor debuffs and damage, I dismissed all offensive capability.

But recently, it struck me...A lot of these transformations are pretty specific and do deny functions of the original form, (such as spell casting, for one).

And so I found the Aquan Transformation and looked at it in such a light...and it looks like a straight up save-or-lose. Meatheads can't swing weapons (or stay in melee range, as they'd be restricted to crawling), and spell casters can't cast (unless they have silent/still spell).

And if they can, they can't really walk out of threatened range of our meathead. Not to mention the spell level adjustment means they are using less powerful spells.

The only class I think this debilitates the least is, ironically, the monk.
....Oh my god. I kinda wanna play a fish monk. *Reads the monk class* Hmm. Maybe not.

liquidformat
2019-04-08, 07:42 AM
seems pretty nasty to me, though I am surprised they actually gave it Amphibious subtype rather than just the ability to hold their breath underwater for extended time. The one thing I find vaguely interesting and confusing is it doesn't say what happens to your land speed, sure RAI you have no legs therefore your land speed is somewhere between reduced and now nonexistent; however, from RAW point of view I could see an argument that land speed is unaffected since it doesn't say anywhere that it is changed...

noob
2019-04-08, 08:04 AM
seems pretty nasty to me, though I am surprised they actually gave it Amphibious subtype rather than just the ability to hold their breath underwater for extended time. The one thing I find vaguely interesting and confusing is it doesn't say what happens to your land speed, sure RAI you have no legs therefore your land speed is somewhere between reduced and now nonexistent; however, from RAW point of view I could see an argument that land speed is unaffected since it doesn't say anywhere that it is changed...

There is a rule section that gives usual land speed in function of the number of legs and size but it is for usual speed(does not applies in all the cases)

stack
2019-04-08, 08:05 AM
Base sphere: "The target loses any extraordinary or supernatural abilities, natural attacks, and movement types dependent on their original form (darkvision, scent, wings, claws, etc.) and gains the listed benefits in their place."

None is listed, so I believe you default to the universal minimum 5 ft. move speed. Yes, failing that Fort save is bad. Animal Mind makes it worse, but even by itself Aquan is a go-to debuff form.

Particle_Man
2019-04-08, 09:46 AM
Where is this from?

JMS
2019-04-08, 09:51 AM
Where is this from?

The amazing 3rd party pathfinder system spheres of power.

noob
2019-04-08, 11:38 AM
The amazing 3rd party pathfinder system spheres of power.

With amazing dysfunctions when volume gets involved too.

ShurikVch
2019-04-08, 01:46 PM
The only class I think this debilitates the least is, ironically, the monk.
....Oh my god. I kinda wanna play a fish monk.Juice-Lee (https://disneyvillains.fandom.com/wiki/Juice-Lee)! :smallbiggrin:

Grek
2019-04-08, 02:25 PM
Yes, turning your opponent into a tadpole is about as bad for them as you'd expect.

SangoProduction
2019-04-08, 02:33 PM
I am so glad I'm not going crazy.