Most broken spell combo If concentration didn't exist

[strangebloke]

Idea is in the title.

Lets say that there isn't a concentration mechanic. No DC 10 CON saves and you can keep as many instances of 'fire wall' up as you have spell slots for.

I made the case in a different thread that getting rid of concentration would return the game in large part to the CODzilla days of yor. I'm curious to see whether I had the right of that or not.

My first thought was Darkness + Devil's Sight + Shadow Blade + Hexblade's Curse + Hex + Elven Accuracy + Eldritch smite on a crit. That one has the rather obvious problem that there's no way for you to get that many bonus actions off. Hex can't be transferred until the target is in view, curse can't be applied, and shadow blade has only a minute duration and really can't be pre-cast.

Obviously, this mechanic makes hunter's mark and hex insanely more useful than they already are. Cast at a high slot and you have +1d6 damage per attack all day long.

What are some other thoughts?

Spirit guardians on top of plant growth on top of spike growth?

Cast Web into Bonfire?

[Darc_Vader]

Not a combo, but Haste becomes significantly better without the ‘lose a turn’ clause. Wall of Force paired with a lingering aoe would be quite powerful as well.

[PhoenixPhyre]

A big one is buff stacking.

Divine favor + bless + elemental weapon + ...

Stoneskin + blur + mirror image makes you basically immune to any attack-based damage.

Multiple overlapping control spells by a single caster.

A druid with a whole load of conjure X spells running lets you flood the battlefield.

A sorcadin could stack all the smite spells, plus regular smite.

A bit sillier, but you could have detect all the things up at the same time: evil/good, magic, poison & disease, thoughts

Messing with concentration is one of 3 things the DMG specifically warns about changing, and for good reason (DMG 263):
* allowing multiple concentration spells at once
* allowing multiple reactions/bonus actions per round
* allowing attunement to >3 magic items

[strangebloke]

A big one is buff stacking.

Divine favor + bless + elemental weapon + ...

Stoneskin + blur + mirror image makes you basically immune to any attack-based damage.

Multiple overlapping control spells by a single caster.

A druid with a whole load of conjure X spells running lets you flood the battlefield.

A sorcadin could stack all the smite spells, plus regular smite.

A bit sillier, but you could have detect all the things up at the same time: evil/good, magic, poison & disease, thoughts

Messing with concentration is one of 3 things the DMG specifically warns about changing, and for good reason (DMG 263):
* allowing multiple concentration spells at once
* allowing multiple reactions/bonus actions per round
* allowing attunement to >3 magic items

I'm actually somewhat skeptical on the buff front. Too many of the ones I'm looking at here (like blur) are short duration and it seems like it might be difficult to cast them ahead of time.

But actually, I think you've given us our answer already. Conjure Woodland Creatures lasts an hour. Just cast it 5 times and if the DM doesn't have some kind of large AOE around the corner he's screwed.

[Aquillion]

Yeah, I was going to say, just summons alone would break the game. Animate Objects for tiny objects is an average of about ~60 damage a round (you only have to give them an order once), so if you just keep casting it, not much is going to survive.

[jaappleton]

Holy Weapon, Haste, and Tenser's Transformation and Foresight can really **** some things up.

[stoutstien]

Conjure x spells come to mind. Conjure animal+ conjure woodland beings.

[Bubzors]

I think many things are somewhat limited by durations, so I dont know about "most broken combo" but in general allowing multiple spells will greatly up the combat effectiveness of almost every party.

For example, just thinking about my paladin character, being able to have bless, shield of faith, and divine favor up would make me a killing machine more than I am normally. And since two of them are bonus action casting I could still attack 2/3 turns while getting these buffs out.

Not to mention I now have no worry about wading into the middle of combat as I will never drop these spells short of dispel magic

Thinking more on this, melee spellcasters will overshadow almost everything else. No consequence of getting hit and losing concentration. Also this I think would lead to bonus action bluffs being king, as you could cast it while keeping up your dps. Layering this on almost every turn is very strong

[Damon_Tor]

A while ago I discussed a high level wizard who used a "buffing parlor" demiplane filled with Glyphs of Warding storing a variety of buffs (Haste, Shadow Blade, Tenser's Transformation etc) and shape-shifting himself into a Planetar. Combined with three levels of Rogue (Assassin) the build was capable of killing the Terrasque in 1 round of combat with reasonable reliability.

[Crgaston]

Hex, Shadow of Moil and Shadow Blade would play well together.

Or Greater Invisibility + Far Step.

[Rukelnikov]

Summons .

[Schadenfreuda]

Removing concentration entirely would allow for the kind of shenanigans that 3.5e was known for, among which were endless summons (especially for Druids, who had spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally), endlessly stacking buffs and debuffs (especially for clerics), massively improved shapeshifting capacity, which as it is is limited in 5e more by whether you can risk losing concentration on the form than by what the form actually is, and so forth. Particular spell combinations that might be quite potent might be spamming Banishment or Polymorph with every slot you have, Blessing and Baning every friend and enemy, and that kind of thing. It basically removes the single most important restriction on a caster's practical power, and is generally considered a bad move, especially since attempting to break concentration is one of the only methods of recourse mundanes have against caster enemies.

[JayroBNeto]

Lock 2(Hexblade) Sorc 10: Fly(No randomly swinging and hitting you) + Greater Invisibility(No targeting you with a spell) + Hex(+1d6) + Hunter's Mark(+1d6) + Slow(-2 enemy AC) + Agonizing Blast + Eldritch Blast(And keep quickening it) + Hexblade's Curse . At level 12, you'd be doing (1d10(5) + 2d6(7) + 5(charisma) + 5(Proficiency)) per attack, of which you'd make 4 every turn, critting on 19 and 20, and you can keep doing it for a very long time

[Sigreid]

Aren't many things that would survive something like wall of fire inside a wall of force shaped like a cube. Or really any good long duration damage over time inside a wall of force sell block.

[Tanarii]

What about if concentration still existed, but only for purposes of making the save to avoid losing the spells?

One per concentration spell or one for all spells at once would be the next question.

[Blood of Gaea]

Greater Invisibility with Fly can be a rather dirty combination.

[Kane0]

I'm actually somewhat skeptical on the buff front. Too many of the ones I'm looking at here (like blur) are short duration and it seems like it might be difficult to cast them ahead of time.

But actually, I think you've given us our answer already. Conjure Woodland Creatures lasts an hour. Just cast it 5 times and if the DM doesn't have some kind of large AOE around the corner he's screwed.

All you need to know is if something big and nasty is on the other side of the door you need to prep for. Find Familiar, most divination magic, good ol' fashioned perception at the door, etc and then spend 3-4 rounds bringing up your preferred combination of Bless, Divine Favor, Heroism, Shield of Faith, Blur, Enhance Ability, Enlarge/Reduce, Invisibility, Magic Weapon, Shadow Blade, Elemental Weapon, Fly, Haste, Spirit Guardians, etc

And then there's summons as mentioned, or debuffs/control spells followed up by DoT. Or hey, just for the laughs try comboing Entangle, Web, Spike Growth, Sleet Storm and/or Stinking Cloud

[Rukelnikov]

What about if concentration still existed, but only for purposes of making the save to avoid losing the spells?

One per concentration spell or one for all spells at once would be the next question.

Even then, with Conjure X lasting an hour, a druid could summon a ton of stuff, tell them "storm the dungeon", and sip martinis safely away.

If that's not a valid command(I don't think it is actually), then it can still be done by taking 3 levels in warlock(archfey?) and voice of the chain master, to have an invisible pixie going with the pack so you can see/hear/speak thru it.

[Aquillion]

Even then, with Conjure X lasting an hour, a druid could summon a ton of stuff, tell them "storm the dungeon", and sip martinis safely away.Honestly you could probably already make a party to do this if you really wanted to. It's just a bit trickier because you'd have to build your party around it.

I think ideally you'd want demon-summoning - that tends to get you the most bang for your buck, and you don't really care if you lose concentration when it's deep in the dungeon, since you'll be safely far away (most demons explicitly just target and kill the nearest non-demons.)

...actually, this might be worth making a thread for.