Polearm Master + War Caster

[Aquillion]

Let me see if I have this right.

Someone who has Polearm Master + War Caster can cast a spell at anyone who enters their reach. You don't actually have to be proficient with your weapon (because you don't intend to actually attack with it), so you could even carry a lance (or a glaive, halberd, or pike if you want to look less stupid) to increase your reach to 10 feet. You can also just use a quarterstaff with Polearm Master, but that costs you the 10-foot reach.

A caster with this setup not only gets free spells, but can use them to catch out enemies as they approach. For instance, a Glaive Bard (who can actually be proficient with it if they go Valor) can use Dissonant Whispers to ward off enemies, usually wasting the opponent's entire turn, or they could just Cutting Words everything that gets near. Alternatively, you could do this as a Warlock and use Repelling Blast to send anyone who tries to approach you flying back, severely damaging them in the process.

Note that War Caster specifies only opportunity attacks provoked by movement lets you cast spells, so unfortunately it doesn't combine with Sentinel (otherwise you could do truly ridiculous things by standing behind your fighter buddy and getting a free spell whenever he gets attacked.)

Also, I think this doesn't work with Tunnel Fighter, sadly, since War Caster replaces your opportunity attack with casting a spell using your reaction, and Tunnel Fighter only removes the need for reactions from opportunity attacks... if it were allowed, the Warlock example could become virtually impossible to approach.

[Man_Over_Game]

Let me see if I have this right.

Someone who has Polearm Master + War Caster can cast a spell at anyone who enters their reach. You don't actually have to be proficient with your weapon (because you don't intend to actually attack with it), so you could even carry a lance (or a glaive, halberd, or pike if you want to look less stupid) to increase your reach to 10 feet. You can also just use a quarterstaff with Polearm Master, but that costs you the 10-foot reach.

A caster with this setup not only gets free spells, but can use them to catch out enemies as they approach. For instance, a Glaive Bard (who can actually be proficient with it if they go Valor) can use Dissonant Whispers to ward off enemies, usually wasting the opponent's entire turn, or they could just Cutting Words everything that gets near. Alternatively, you could do this as a Warlock and use Repelling Blast to send anyone who tries to approach you flying back, severely damaging them in the process.

Note that War Caster specifies only opportunity attacks provoked by movement lets you cast spells, so unfortunately it doesn't combine with Sentinel (otherwise you could do truly ridiculous things by standing behind your fighter buddy and getting a free spell whenever he gets attacked.)

Also, I think this doesn't work with Tunnel Fighter, sadly, since War Caster replaces your opportunity attack with casting a spell using your reaction, and Tunnel Fighter only removes the need for reactions from opportunity attacks... if it were allowed, the Warlock example could become virtually impossible to approach.

That's MOSTLY correct. There was clarification by Mearls during 5e's early stages about the fact that Polearm Master requires you to use the triggering weapon for the Opportunity Attack it provides you, but not only is his ruling unofficial, but he's also been wrong on stuff before.

Personally, though, I'd do the same thing. Using Polearm Master to cast spells just doesn't make much narrative sense to me, and the feat is already really stinking good. If it didn't get buffed (by this ruling) people would still take it more often than alternatives. Which is a pretty clear balance concern.

[Sception]

Tunnel fighter is mostly considered deprecated content at this point regardless.

Otherwise, yeah, the combo works, but the spells aren't "free". Unless they're cantrips you still have to spend slots, and either way you're still spending your reaction.

Additionally, if you want to be making these attacks at 10' reach, there can be handedness issues with somatic/material spells depending on how your DM reads the interaction. You only get the reaction attack "while wielding" the polearm. Normally you can switch from 'wielding' a two handed weapon with two hands to 'holding' it with one hand in order to cast spells with the other whenever you feel like it... but while you're casting the spell you're not wielding that weapon, so a DM might argue that you can't cast a spell that requires a free hand using this interaction with a two handed weapon as doing so would require you to, in that moment, not be wielding the weapon, which is a prerequisite to make the opportunity attack in the first place.

Most DMs probably won't rule that way, and even if yours does you can use a staff or spear one handed instead... though then you aren't making the attack with reach, so ranged attack spells might suffer disadvantage.


Is a decent combo, but I find that most of my casters either 1) don't cast single enemy target spells or 2) don't have so many spell slots that they feel a need to burn them faster than they already can or 3) already have reactions they'd rather use (mostly Shield and Absorb Elements).

[MThurston]

The caster doesnt get free spells and you must use a single target spell.

So you can't cast sleep or misty step.

If you are not going to use the Polearm then it's a waste of a feat.

But PAM is OP and I nerf it in my game. No extra attack with it.

[Crgaston]

The best use of this interaction requires the Spell Sniper feat to use Booming Blade on the OA while they’re still at 10 feet.

Someone with a spear or quarterstaff could get around the “using both hands” requirement since that can be wielded with only 1 hand, but doesn’t War Caster take care of this anyway?

I’m on my phone so this is just musing.

[Willie the Duck]

But PAM is OP and I nerf it in my game. No extra attack with it.

I tend to find PAM in isolation to be an acceptable boost to the (mostly) fighters who have the spare ASI to pick it up. It is when it is combined with GWM/Sentinel, hexblade/forge cleric dips to make the challenges of finding magic polearms irrelevant, 1H shillelagh + shield, or weird rules interactions like this one where it really gets out of hand. tl/dr-I think it works fine so long as the DM says, 'You can have PAM or X, not PAM and X.'


The best use of this interaction requires the Spell Sniper feat to use Booming Blade on the OA while they’re still at 10 feet.

That is definitely the most obvious (and repeatable) usage. Although anything you might want to sick on people right when they come up to you is fine. If you are low-str cleric using PAM with a one-handed staff, such that your reaction-attack would only be maybe 1d6+2 (and you're really not looking forward to getting hit), maybe drop an inflict wounds on the opponent and save your butt.

[Man_Over_Game]

I tend to find PAM in isolation to be an acceptable boost to the (mostly) fighters who have the spare ASI to pick it up. It is when it is combined with GWM/Sentinel, hexblade/forge cleric dips to make the challenges of finding magic polearms irrelevant, 1H shillelagh + shield, or weird rules interactions like this one where it really gets out of hand. tl/dr-I think it works fine so long as the DM says, 'You can have PAM or X, not PAM and X.'

Put into context, PAM allows you to make a Bonus Action Attack with -3 damage, and a reaction attack for enemies that approach. Assuming the reaction attack occurs 50% of the time, and you deal about 9 damage on a normal attack, you're going from 9 damage per round to about 20.

Someone with TWF and the same modifier goes from 10.5 damage per round to 12.5 damage per round with the feat (and +1 AC).

If we're including fighting styles, PAM could get the +1 AC, and TWF could get the modifier addition onto damage, leaving TWF with 16 damage vs. PAM's 20. This is before including the fact that PAM is compatible with spellcasting, uses a stat that's more AC efficient (strength) and includes Reach (which is generally a positive rather than a negative).

[Willie the Duck]

Put into context, PAM allows you to make a Bonus Action Attack with -3 damage, and a reaction attack for enemies that approach. Assuming the reaction attack occurs 50% of the time, and you deal about 9 damage on a normal attack, you're going from 9 damage per round to about 20.

Someone with TWF and the same modifier goes from 10.5 damage per round to 12.5 damage per round with the feat (and +1 AC).

If we're including fighting styles, PAM could get the +1 AC, and TWF could get the modifier addition onto damage, leaving TWF with 16 damage vs. PAM's 20. This is before including the fact that PAM is compatible with spellcasting, uses a stat that's more AC efficient (strength) and includes Reach (which is generally a positive rather than a negative).

Those are, um, true statements. Given TWF's apparent spot on the measurement chart of things people usually consider powerful, I'm not exactly sure what this analysis shows. If the point is that PAM, in isolation, is still better than single-feat-supported TWF, that seems to be a true statement. All in all, when compared to the barbarian with GWM, the Paladin with Inspiring Leader, and the Wizard with War Caster, resilient:con, or Lucky, the fighter with PAM contributes to overall party success approximately appropriately, in my estimation.

Interestingly, from what I've seen IRL, when you go overboard with combo-ing, such as PAM+sentinel+GWM (or the like), it actually becomes self-detrimental, as the DM will (subconsciously or deliberately) modify the situation to disfavor success by high-melee damage.

[MThurston]

The best use of this interaction requires the Spell Sniper feat to use Booming Blade on the OA while they’re still at 10 feet.

Someone with a spear or quarterstaff could get around the “using both hands” requirement since that can be wielded with only 1 hand, but doesn’t War Caster take care of this anyway?

I’m on my phone so this is just musing.

No war caster does not for a warlock. You still have to use a focus. However for silly reason you can somehow only hold the weapon in one hand.

[stoutstien]

Those are, um, true statements. Given TWF's apparent spot on the measurement chart of things people usually consider powerful, I'm not exactly sure what this analysis shows. If the point is that PAM, in isolation, is still better than single-feat-supported TWF, that seems to be a true statement. All in all, when compared to the barbarian with GWM, the Paladin with Inspiring Leader, and the Wizard with War Caster, resilient:con, or Lucky, the fighter with PAM contributes to overall party success approximately appropriately, in my estimation.

Interestingly, from what I've seen IRL, when you go overboard with combo-ing, such as PAM+sentinel+GWM (or the like), it actually becomes self-detrimental, as the DM will (subconsciously or deliberately) modify the situation to disfavor success by high-melee damage.

I see way more duelist+Pam for consistent damage and better AC.

[Willie the Duck]

I see way more duelist+Pam for consistent damage and better AC.

Yes, but that falls into the category of bizarre rules interactions I'm not prepared to defend as not OP shenanigans. You see, I am reading Man_Over_Game's statements as calling PAM (in isolation, as he was responding to my post) as overpowered, and using a comparison to 2wf as evidence. My response is basically that I'm not judging it compared to 2wf, but to a GWM barbarian, or a wizard, etc.

PAM -- without GWM and sentinel, without this war caster or war caster/spell sniper combo, and without one-handed quarterstaff/spear and shield -- is, in my mind, perfectly in line with where a martial class should be, in terms of contribution to overall party success (at least tiers 1-3). Both 2wf and featless games below this level, and all these odd-rules-interactions combos above this level, I feel are the more problematic situations that I think might be better to be addressed.

All opinion, of course.

[Antarx]

Most DMs probably won't rule that way, and even if yours does you can use a staff or spear one handed instead... though then you aren't making the attack with reach, so ranged attack spells might suffer disadvantage.
.

Use a Whip. My 2c

Nice build, by the way

Edited. The whip doesn't work with PAM. I forgot that part.

[Man_Over_Game]

Use a Whip. My 2c

Nice build, by the way

The Whip won't provide the Opportunity Attack strategy that the OP is trying to use.

[Mitsu]

By RAW it works. RAI depends on DM and rullings.

Actually if someone allow Tunnel Fighter + Spell Sniper + War Caster you get a guy who can spam Booming Blade at anyone entering his range.

It's very strong combo especially on Spear + Shield Vengeance Paladin with Hexblade dip. Guy not only has 3 attacks per turn, SAD CHA but also get's OA attacks when people leave his range and enter his range, opening a BB attack on them.

It's very strong combo but works in-real scenario only for 1h + Shield PAM builds as they only takes PAM + War Caster to work. Vuman Vengeace Paladin will have that ready at level 4. Half-Elf at level 8.

If you'd want to make it for 2h users that becomes a very feat heavy investment. PAM, War Caster, Spell Sniper + I assumie anyone would take GWM to it. This combo I would recommend only for Vuman EK- as they get feats at 1,4,6,8,12 levels. That would give them PAM, War Caster, Spell Sniper and GWM at level 8, which is great.

Then you have a fighter with action surge, extra attacks etc. who can also cast BB at 10ft away from him and also use War Magic for another BB attack.

[Pex]

If you also have Spell Sniper feat then you can use Booming Blade for the opportunity attack and trigger the secondary damage when they move to 5 ft next to you if they still decide to attack. It's a three feat investment, which is expensive, so be sure you really want at least Pole Arm Master and War Caster individually. The earliest you can have this is 8th level if starting Variant Human, and if you use Point Buy you can't have an 18 until 12th level. I'm going for this trick with my Bladelock, but only because we rolled for stats for this game and I got the 18.

[MThurston]

Use a Whip. My 2c

Nice build, by the way

Edited. The whip doesn't work with PAM. I forgot that part.

It works with sneak attack on other people's turn.