N00B control wizard help

[Timur18]

I’ve been playing in a hombrew setting and reached lvl6 with my human divination wizard. Due to the DMs preference on high difficulty, I’ve been less effective when I try to be the blaster.

I want to try and play as a controller but feel lost. Playing a controller is so situational. Most times I just haste the fighter and try to stand back. My current spells are below.

lvl0
Light, Mage Hand, Firebolt, Prestidigitation

lvl1
Magic Missle, sleep, ray of sickness, detect magic, identify, comprehend languages, find familiar, witch bolt, feather fall

lvl2
Mind spike, shatter, misty step, flaming sphere, enlarge/reduce, gust of wind, invisibility

lvl3
lightning bolt, haste, fly, tidal wave


I’d greatly appreciate any tips. I’ve only played a barbarian before so I’m used to the binary choice of smash/don’t smash. Counterspell and levitate are on my spell shopping list. The DMs homebrew setting makes it difficult to obtain spells even when I level so I’m trying to go forward with control only in mind.

PS..if you’re wondering why fireball isn’t in my spellbook, it was. Until I accidentally blew something up and the local kingdom tore it from my spellbook, forbade me from using it further, and branded me with something like Belkar‘s mark of justice.

[Torgairon]

fog cloud, phantasmal force and hypnotic pattern were my go-to spells - from levels that you currently have access to - when I was playing a battlefield control illusion wizard in an SKT campaign. you have an awful lot of nukes and general support spells for a character that it sounds like you want to treantmonk it up with. obviously it's a good idea to have a concentration-free nuke spell if you can get one so that you can burn leftover spell slots on damage, lightning bolt or fireball are both fine options for that. being your fighter's hastebot, though...it's a good way to make a friend in and out of game, but most of your really impressive 3rd level control spells like hypnotic pattern, fear, and slow all require concentration, which haste requires as well.

basically, it looks like you're playing a generalist divination wizard - nothing wrong with that! portent plays to that same adaptable strategy, just pick and choose whether you want to help your fighter land a hit with a high die or have an enemy fail a saving throw with a low die. I'd keep doing what you're doing, grabbing one spell that's really nasty if someone fails their save (banishment, confusion, polymorph all come to mind) as you hit 4th level spells.

[Dungeon-noob]

Using flaming sphere, gust of wind and tidal wave to control where enemies can stand, dissuade them from certain manouvers, and create choke points to give the martials an easier time sounds like a simple place to start. Remember that enlarge and invis are also great buffs for other situations, like when you want to geek the mage but they have a frontline, invisable charging barbarian sounds terrifying.

[Bloodcloud]

Getting Firewall at level 7 should help.

[Man_Over_Game]

You're a Divination Wizard, and you just hit level 6. You should pay close attention to your new feature, as it will allow you to aid your team without blasting, and without much cost.

Learn to abuse your Divination spells as often as possible. As a level 6 Divination Wizard, you can cast these spells with spending only a level 3 spell slot:

Mage Armor/Jump/Longstrider/Shield/Absorb Elements > Mind Spike/See Invisibility > See Invisibility (upcasted to level 3).

If you straight up need combat effectiveness, don't forget about Summon Lesser Demons. It has a 60 foot range, and if your DM uses Flanking rules, you can sandwich your enemies between the demons and your melee line. When the demons start on your melee line, you can just release your Concentration to send them back.

Or, if you want something a bit more "control"-y, then grab Hypnotic Pattern, which is a very potent controlling spell.

[strangebloke]

I’ve been playing in a hombrew setting and reached lvl6 with my human divination wizard. Due to the DMs preference on high difficulty, I’ve been less effective when I try to be the blaster.

I want to try and play as a controller but feel lost. Playing a controller is so situational. Most times I just haste the fighter and try to stand back. My current spells are below.

The first thing I'm gonna say is that its pretty weird that your DM had the local authorities react so explosively to the fireball spell. It doesn't really matter, as fireball is only one of several good options available to you, but the mark of justice is way over the top.

As to having trouble controlling the flow of battle, well... I can see why. Control wizards rely generally on 'save' spells or 'no-save' spells, not on direct damage, and you seem to be a hybrid of utility and blasting, including some real stinker damage spells like witch bolt. Magic Missile and Sleep are also far less good at your current level and most days you probably won't want to prepare them. What you want is a series of powerful, flexible spells that dominate a number of different niches. You'll also want at least one "Save or Lose" spell to combo with your portent.

You have a couple of good buffs, which goes a long ways toward helping you as a controller. I'd typically classify Enlarge/Reduce as more of a utility spell, unless you have a party monk or someone else who can get really good mileage out of it. What you're missing are powerful debuffs (the staple of a controller) and spells for your personal protection (if you are getting hit a lot, you'll lose concentration a lot, which makes your spells less good.)

My recs would be:


Mage Armor: You don't have armor from any other source, so this will effectively be +3 AC for the whole day. That's a really good spell. Move this one to the top of your shopping list, over all the other ones listed here.
Fog Cloud: Your one stop answer for enemies that are firing at you from range but that you can't get to yet. Throw it over an enemy caster to ruin their line of sight. (lots of spells require LoS)
Hypnotic Pattern: Take a whole mess of guys out of the fight.
Enemies Abound: Int Save and the spell totally shuts down a single target. Just be sure to yell "Keep Clear of the Ogre!" before you cast this.
Blindness/Deafness: Targets CON saves, which sucks, but can be comboed with portent and can be cast while you're concentrating on something else. Just a solid spell.
Phantasmal Force: Int Save to shut down a single opponent. Talk to your DM about how this works before you pick it.
Haste: super solid buff, particularly if there's a rogue in the party. (he attacks with the Haste action, gets sneak attack, and then uses his main action to ready an attack for the following turn, getting SA again.)
Shield: Remember, you get to use this after the DM says what the monster rolled, but before he says if it hit or not. Also remember that the AC bonus applies for the whole round.



Then, as you level up:


Banishment: Literally removes someone from the fight. Permanently if they're a demon. Sicknasty with portent, as it will one-shot anything that doesn't have legendary resistance.
Wall of Fire: divide the field in two, deal tons of damage.
Polymorph: Essentially its a spell that turns a gassed, nearly dead party member into a T-Rex. You can use it as a great Debuff as well!

[stoutstien]

Both grease and web are solid control spells that keep lower lv slots relevant as you level up.

[ImproperJustice]

Both grease and web are solid control spells that keep lower lv slots relevant as you level up.

Those are both great.

Sleet Storm and Slow are both great control spells.
The former is great area disruption and the latter for more targeted disruption.


Also, they know you can blow stuff up with:
Fire bolt
Control Flame
Thaumaurgy
Prestidigitation

And any fire or lightning spell right?

Or a vial of oil and some flint?
Are people just that terrified of fire in that world?

[Guy Lombard-O]

You'll also want at least one "Save or Lose" spell to combo with your portent.

I'd probably just suggest adding Hold Person to the stable, since it upcasts pretty well and gives those sweet auto-crits.

[Dungeon-noob]

I'd probably just suggest adding Hold Person to the stable, since it upcasts pretty well and gives those sweet auto-crits.
More then one save though, meaning that portent is much less potent :smalltongue:

[strangebloke]

I'd probably just suggest adding Hold Person to the stable, since it upcasts pretty well and gives those sweet auto-crits.

Hard pass.

hold person is great against... people. If your enemy is a fiend or an abberation or an undead or a fey, you're fresh outta luck. Then too, the portent would only freeze the target for the first round. They'd still get a save on the next one. That's true of most spells at this level, but its a relevant factor. At next level, Banishment and Polymorph won't allow repeat saves.

Hold person is a good pick generally, but I wouldn't have it be the only spell available to combo with portent. Blindness/Deafness is great because it works on everything. Hypnotic Pattern is great because it works on everything and doesn't allow for a repeat save. Reduce actually doesn't allow a repeat save either, although it's probably not worth it in most instances.

[Timur18]

Thanks for all the tips. I know my spell selection is all over the place.

I had shied away from debuff spells since so many grant saves each turn. It seemed more economical to buff allies. I see my mistake now. Part of my problem is I came into the campaign late so I was lvl 2 while the rest of the party was lvl 4 and 5. It also doesn’t help that the DM finds 5e a little too PC friendly so he cranks encounters up a lot and likes to “win”.

I’ll try and expand my spells a bit and maybe see if the DM will let me switch a few things around. Witch bolt seemed so great at first! I know better now but having played a barbarian for so long it was nice to use the old d12 again.

Regarding my mark of justice, I cast fireball too close to town on an ancient artifact of untold power that amplified the spell and caused a lot of collateral damage. I was trying to destroy it and it backfired on me. Meh, I’ll get along without one spell. It’s a dark sun inspired setting so mages aren’t well liked, but somehow a mage guild still exists. I don’t quite get it honestly but I don’t want to leave the table over it either. I also think the DM wanted the party to explore the world more rather than stay based in one area and he let me tinkle in one area of the sandbox so the party would have to go somewhere else.

[dragoeniex]

Putting in another good word for Slow here. The fact that it lets you choose enemies to target and therefore goes around teammates is fantastic! Drop it wherever you like.

It does have those repeat saves you balked at, but it's because the spell can entirely shut down several sorts of enemies. Melee characters affected by it can only swing once per turn, casters have a risk of their spells taking two turns instead of one-- and both have -2 to AC. So the brawly types are hitting less and getting hit more often by your brawly types, and the caster is part-timing as a pincushion.

The halved movement also means you may pull it out of your pocket in an escape sequence.



Spells that can lock enemies out of the fight until you're ready (Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, Banishment, Wall of Force...) help you divide and concur an encounter. Controlling terrain with walls, illusions, and forces of nature itself (see: Earthbind for a low level "we don't have an answer for flying enemies") are all great ways to add tools you can reach for when needed.

Whatever you go with, your Diviner subclass fits great with this focus. The portent roll-swapping is a control effect all on its own.



Best of luck, and always remember the golden rule of control: look at your spells, look at your enemies, and ask yourself... "What can I take away?"

[ShikomeKidoMi]

It works better at higher levels when you have more spell slots, but you'll probably want to grab Blindness/Deafness at some point as well. The lack of Concentration means it's something you can throw around to debuff people who have escaped whatever Concentration control spell you're using.

[strangebloke]

Thanks for all the tips. I know my spell selection is all over the place.

I had shied away from debuff spells since so many grant saves each turn. It seemed more economical to buff allies. I see my mistake now. Part of my problem is I came into the campaign late so I was lvl 2 while the rest of the party was lvl 4 and 5. It also doesn’t help that the DM finds 5e a little too PC friendly so he cranks encounters up a lot and likes to “win”.

I’ll try and expand my spells a bit and maybe see if the DM will let me switch a few things around. Witch bolt seemed so great at first! I know better now but having played a barbarian for so long it was nice to use the old d12 again.

Regarding my mark of justice, I cast fireball too close to town on an ancient artifact of untold power that amplified the spell and caused a lot of collateral damage. I was trying to destroy it and it backfired on me. Meh, I’ll get along without one spell. It’s a dark sun inspired setting so mages aren’t well liked, but somehow a mage guild still exists. I don’t quite get it honestly but I don’t want to leave the table over it either. I also think the DM wanted the party to explore the world more rather than stay based in one area and he let me tinkle in one area of the sandbox so the party would have to go somewhere else.

buffing is really good!

Its just that sometimes, Debuffing is better. In actuality, taking an enemy out of the fight completely is better than either. Hypnotic pattern does this, as does (in some cases) fog cloud or any of the "Wall of" spells.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Hard pass.

hold person is great against... people. If your enemy is a fiend or an abberation or an undead or a fey, you're fresh outta luck. Then too, the portent would only freeze the target for the first round. They'd still get a save on the next one. That's true of most spells at this level, but its a relevant factor. At next level, Banishment and Polymorph won't allow repeat saves.

Hold person is a good pick generally, but I wouldn't have it be the only spell available to combo with portent. Blindness/Deafness is great because it works on everything. Hypnotic Pattern is great because it works on everything and doesn't allow for a repeat save. Reduce actually doesn't allow a repeat save either, although it's probably not worth it in most instances.

Only spell available..? Then no, absolutely not! But he's got plenty of others, and those already mentioned by other posters. But a decent pick? Yes. I'd definitely take it over Sleep or Witchbolt, as it remains useful at higher levels (particularly if upcast).

Of course, YMMV depending upon the party composition and the campaign. The ones I play in usually aren't solely dungeon crawls, and almost always include plenty of humanoid enemies overall. But your typical paladin, rogue or even fighters all love getting advantage to hit and auto-crits against your humanoid enemies from time to time.

The idea, of course, is to use it when the melee PCs are in position to utterly trash the target(s) when the spell hits. A save each round hardly matters, if the target is in pieces on the ground before its next turn.

[strangebloke]

Only spell available..? Then no, absolutely not! But he's got plenty of others, and those already mentioned by other posters. But a decent pick? Yes. I'd definitely take it over Sleep or Witchbolt, as it remains useful at higher levels (particularly if upcast).

Of course, YMMV depending upon the party composition and the campaign. The ones I play in usually aren't solely dungeon crawls, and almost always include plenty of humanoid enemies overall. But your typical paladin, rogue or even fighters all love getting advantage to hit and auto-crits against your humanoid enemies from time to time.

The idea, of course, is to use it when the melee PCs are in position to utterly trash the target(s) when the spell hits. A save each round hardly matters, if the target is in pieces on the ground before its next turn.

To recap the context, I said: "You want one save-or-suck spell." They said, "Hold person!" I said, "Not as the only one."

We seem to be in agreement.

In a campaign with a lot of humanoids, its great. In a campaign with mostly chimeras and hydras... less so.

[Guy Lombard-O]

More then one save though, meaning that portent is much less potent :smalltongue:

Very true. But so does Hypnotic Pattern. Still a great spell, and still a great strategy. You just have to pick your Portent targets wisely.