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tahu88810
2007-10-01, 07:54 PM
Hello, I have a challenge for the members of the OOTS forums.
I would like you to create the cheesiest, munchkiniest, most powerfull, pure Monk that you can.
These monks will be pit against a challenge, I will be keeping it as a secret until all contestants have been entered, so you should make your monk capable of fighting anything.

Here are the rules:

Level 10
Starting stats before race and level adjustment are as follows: 18, 16, 12, 10, 8, 11
All sourcebooks allowed, BUT only core races (MM races allowed)
Characters must be straight monk.
Top 3 monks win

----

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!


*We need a prize, if anybody can think something up*

Kaelik
2007-10-01, 08:08 PM
What of Monk like PrCs? Those are essential to making a good Monk.

Guy_Whozevl
2007-10-01, 08:08 PM
Swordsage w/ unarmed strike varient wins this thread.

Seriously, I believe a VoP monk with the Saint template would probably do fine with Vow of Nonviolence/Peace and the 18 in wisdom. Also, are flaws and other stuff from UA allowed? What about Dragon magazine?

Enlong
2007-10-01, 08:13 PM
How about the prize being a made-to-order avatar or sig or something, but Monk-inspired.

Perhaps I should quickly throw this out there: you should probably ban using Red Mage's Monk Twink (http://www.nuklearpower.com/redmage25.php), simply 'cause you want people to be creative and twinky on their own, right? (though I'm not sure if that twink is still relevant, I'm not certain if he's describing a 3.0 or 3.5 Monk)

Enlong
2007-10-01, 08:15 PM
To Kaelik and Guy_Whozevl:


Hello, I have a challenge for the members of the OOTS forums.
I would like you to create the cheesiest, munchkiniest, most powerfull, pure Monk that you can.
These monks will be pit against a challenge, I will be keeping it as a secret until all contestants have been entered, so you should make your monk capable of fighting anything.

Here are the rules:

Level 10
Starting stats before race and level adjustment are as follows: 18, 16, 12, 10, 8, 11
All sourcebooks allowed, BUT only core races (MM races allowed)
Characters must be straight monk.
Top 3 monks win

----

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!


*We need a prize, if anybody can think something up*

Emphasis mine.

bugsysservant
2007-10-01, 08:25 PM
Well, any really powerful monk would have a custom amulet of truestriking. An amulet that activates the spell truestrike whenever the monk breathes in would allow his flurry to be a bit more effective, and negate most of the penalties of a medium BAB because he would NEVER MISS. And if you limit the amulet to a monk with one rank in, oh I don't know, tumble, it would cost 1200. 'course it wouldn't work if the monk took VoP :smallbiggrin:

SurlySeraph
2007-10-01, 08:27 PM
Level 10, straight Monk? Damn, that rules out my Monk/Assassin build. Let me go see if I can make a good Monk without 8 attacks with 6d6 sneak attack on each.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-10-01, 08:51 PM
Quickling McCan'ttouchthis

Halfling Monk 10

Str: 8 (10 base -2 Halfling)
Dex: 20 (18 base, +2 Halfling)
Con: 12
Int: 13 (11 base, +1 each for levels 4 and 8)
Wis: 16
Cha: 8

AC: 42 (10 + 2 Monk + 5 dex + 3 Wis + 4 [Pot of MA] + 4 [Pot of Shield] + 6 [Bracer of Armor] + 1 Size + 7 Improved Combat Expertise]

Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows, Improved Disarm, Combat Expertise, Improved Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting

Special Abilities: Flurry of Blows, Improved evasion, Still mind, Ki strike (magic, lawful), slow fall 50 ft., Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body

Full Attack (with boots active): +6/+6/+6/+1/+6/+6 (1d8-1)
Stunning Fist DC: 18

Equipment: Masterwork Quarterstaff, Bracers of Armor +6, Boots of Speed, Potion of Mage Armor x2, Potion of Shield x2

The Idea: make it so Quickling can only be hit on a roll of a natural 20, at the cost of his BAB, which makes it so that he can only hit on a roll of a natural 20. Then get three times as many chances as anyone else to roll that natural 20. Apply Stunning Fist where applicable; once target is stunned, coup-de-grace until death.

I'm much too lazy to work out saves and stuff. As it is, I'm sure I've forgotten plenty of things that this build doesn't take into account, and I'm also sure there are better ways of accomplishing The Idea. But there's the framework.

JackMage666
2007-10-01, 09:02 PM
AC: 42 (10 + 2 Monk + 5 dex + 3 Wis + 4 [Pot of MA] + 4 [Pot of Shield] + 6 [Bracer of Armor] + 1 Size + 7 Improved Combat Expertise]

Mage Armor and Bracers of Armor don't stack.

Emperor Tippy
2007-10-01, 09:10 PM
Get the feat that allows you to make the skill of your choice a class skill and use it on UMD. Max UMD (13 points before any bonuses).

Buy a few Candles of Invocation. Gate in a Titan. Win.

Or just go Pun-Pun. The OP said all books are allowed.

bugsysservant
2007-10-01, 09:14 PM
Or just go Pun-Pun. The OP said all books are allowed.

I love how that's now an accepted and well understood phrase.

"Sir, the Soviets have attacked! Should we go nuclear?"

"No, go Pun-Pun!"

[/irrelevant tangent]

AlterForm
2007-10-01, 09:20 PM
-Can we make monks with ECl from HD?

-Starting Gold, if any?

-Cheese factor?

bugsysservant
2007-10-01, 09:24 PM
-Can we make monks with ECl from HD?

-Starting Gold, if any?

-Cheese factor?

I would guess yes, 49,000, and some. He said any core race, so that probably covers those with +LA and HD. And if no sum of gold is given, its generally best to assume WBL. And for cheese, I would say broken, but not Pun-Pun broken. But then again, I didn't author the post.

AlterForm
2007-10-01, 09:26 PM
I would guess yes, 49,000, and some. He said any core race, so that probably covers those with +LA and HD. And if no sum of gold is given, its generally best to assume WBL. And for cheese, I would say broken, but not Pun-Pun broken. But then again, I didn't author the post.

My first thought: Rakshasha Monk 1

My second thought: Oh wait, that's ECL 15...

My third thought: kekeke... :smallamused:

Crow
2007-10-01, 09:26 PM
Usually CharOp board competitions use 32 point buy....but I'll throw something together.

BardicDuelist
2007-10-01, 09:32 PM
Well, I would actually go with 20 Cha (base 18+1 at 4 and +1 at 8). Nothing else matters. Take the Leadership feat and max out Diplomacy. Take the feat that allows UMD as a class skill. You no longer suck (although you don't use any of your class features or what you were intended for). The UMD is not necessary, but is useful none-the less.

Crow
2007-10-01, 09:42 PM
I was rather hoping to use point buy so I don't have to use an 18, and have more median scores.

Chronos
2007-10-01, 10:00 PM
A few more problems with McCantTouchThis:

Int: 13 (11 base, +1 each for levels 4 and 8)
...
Improved Disarm, Combat Expertise, Improved Combat Expertise,When exactly did you take those feats? You're not eligible for Expertise until you have the 13 Int, which is not until level 8. That lets you take one and only one Expertise-tree feat, at level 9. But you can probably get around this by juggling the starting scores a bit. More importantly, though,

Apply Stunning Fist where applicable; once target is stunned, coup-de-grace until death.You have to declare Stunning Fist before you make your attack roll, and if you miss, it's wasted. Hitting only on a natural 20 will burn through your attempts per day pretty quickly. And even if you do get lucky on the stun, a stunned target is not completely helpless, and therefore not subject to coup-de-grace.

Kaelik
2007-10-01, 10:25 PM
So in other words we are looking for the least optimized character possible? The most important part of optimization is class selection, I can see that you want people to take Monk levels, otherwise the competition is a waste, but wht exactly is so un-monk-like about taking levels in Tattooed Monk, Sacred Fist, Draconic Fist, Drunken Master or any other PrCs designed for the sole purpose of helping people create powerful Monk characters?

Skjaldbakka
2007-10-01, 11:33 PM
wow. People really don't want to stick to the parameters of this challenge. I will post my build later in the week, as I don't currently have access to CW, which I need feats from.

Dausuul
2007-10-02, 12:04 AM
So in other words we are looking for the least optimized character possible? The most important part of optimization is class selection, I can see that you want people to take Monk levels, otherwise the competition is a waste, but wht exactly is so un-monk-like about taking levels in Tattooed Monk, Sacred Fist, Draconic Fist, Drunken Master or any other PrCs designed for the sole purpose of helping people create powerful Monk characters?

This is a challenge, a test of optimizing skill: to take the weakest class in the PHB and make something good out of nothing but that class. Allowing PrCs and multiclassing defeats the purpose. You're not being prevented from optimizing, you're just being given a set of boundaries within which your optimization must fall.

Crow
2007-10-02, 12:07 AM
I decided on a core-only monk:

Master Shimazu, Male Human Mnk10: CR 10; Medium Humanoid ; HD 10d8(Monk) ; hp 49; Init +5; Spd 60; AC:15 (Flatfooted:14 Touch:15); Atk +14/9 base melee, +8/3 base ranged; +16/11 (2d4+11, +1 Iron, Cold Chain, spiked); +14/9 (1d10+7, Unarmed strike); +15/10 (1d4+7, Adamantine Dagger); +9/4 (1d8, Crossbow, light, Masterwork); AL LN; SV Fort +8, Ref +11, Will +8; STR 24, DEX 12, CON 10, INT 16, WIS 11, CHA 8.
Skills: Balance +8, Climb +12, Diplomacy +14, Escape Artist +11, Hide +9, Jump +26, Listen +8, Move Silently +9, Perform (Comedy) +5, Search +6, Sense Motive +5, Spot +8, Swim +12, Tumble +15.

Feats: Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Chain, spiked, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Lightning Reflexes, Track, Weapon Focus: Chain, spiked.
Possessions:
Weapons: +1 Iron, Cold Chain, spiked (4,350 gp); Adamantine Dagger (3,302 gp); Crossbow, light, Masterwork (335 gp); Bolts, crossbow (50) (5 gp); Bolts, crossbow (50) (5 gp).
Goods: Rope, Hemp (50ft.) (1gp) Coin: gp (2) (2 gp).
Magic: Wondrous: Belt of Giant Strength +4 (16,000 gp); Wondrous: Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2,000 gp); Ring: Protection +1 (2,000 gp); Wondrous: Boots, Winged (16,000 gp); Wondrous: Chime of Opening (3,000 gp); Wondrous: Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000 gp); Wondrous: Silversheen (250 gp); Potion: Mage Armor (1) (50 gp); Potion: See Invisibility (3) (300 gp); Potion: Mirror Image (3) (300 gp); Potion: Enlarge Person (2) (100 gp).

Kaelik
2007-10-02, 01:58 AM
This is a challenge, a test of optimizing skill: to take the weakest class in the PHB and make something good out of nothing but that class. Allowing PrCs and multiclassing defeats the purpose. You're not being prevented from optimizing, you're just being given a set of boundaries within which your optimization must fall.

Except that if you are attempting to test optimization skill then limiting the options limits the amount of optimization. I'm not saying everything should be fair game, but if a PrC has pre reqs, Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry of Blows, and Evasion, and has a lvl 1 class ability "levels in this class stack with Monk levels for X" then using it is still pretty clearly making a "Monk."

Kyle
2007-10-02, 02:44 AM
I suppose one level of monk and nine levels of Wearbear would be violating the spirt of the challange....

F.L.
2007-10-02, 05:53 AM
By MM races allowed, do you mean MM1, or MM1-5?

Obviously no savage cheese, or I'd submit my Anthropomorphic Bat build...

Arakune
2007-10-02, 07:12 AM
Or an antropormophic insectoid monk (called `black kamen rider`, please, don`t reply to this, is just a joke :smalleek: )

DraPrime
2007-10-02, 07:29 AM
I just had an idea! It involves a certain awesome feat from Book of Exalted Deeds. I won't say anything else.

Person_Man
2007-10-02, 09:24 AM
Bob the Ghost Pixie Monk 1 (+9 LA)
Ghost Pixie Monk 10 if I'm allowed LA buyoff

Noteworthy abilities: Greater Invisibility, Rejuvenation, Telekinesis, Flight, DR 10/cold iron.

While practicing his Kung-Fu, Bob the Pixie was slain by party of Monk adventurers. Now his soul wanders the planet killing other monks, doomed to be a ghost until all Monks everywhere have been killed.

I won't bother to stat out the feats and abilities. Ghosts can't be killed until they can rest in peace. If destroyed (which is hard to do, considering the fact that he has Greater Invisibility and Telekinesis, which means he can just fly above you Invisible and attack you with anything lying around until you're dead) Bob just rejuvenates 2d4 later, intent on tracking down and killing all monks.

So, do I win?

Kurald Galain
2007-10-02, 09:30 AM
Just to try out something different...

Gronk Wingblade, Half-celestial half-orc monk/6

Str 28 (+2 race, +4 celest, +4 belt), Dex 20 (+2 celest, +2 bracers), Con 16 (+4 celest), Int 8 (-2 race, +2 celest), Wis 16 (+1 level, +4 celest), Cha 12 (-2 race, +4 celest)

HP 5d8 + 26 (49 average)
Align LG
Init +5
Speed 60, flight 120 (good), 240 if charging
AC 24 (+5 dex, +1 monk, +3 wis, +2 natural, +2 bracers, +1 ring)
Attack +13 (+9 str) damage 1d8+9 (unarmed) or +12/+12 (flurry) or +15 (glaive +2, damage 1d10+14) or +11 / 1d10+22 (power attack) or +2 for aerial charge or +9 (longbow, damage 1d8+9)
Saves +10/+12/+10 (cloak +2) (+4 against poison)

Resitances: acid, cold, electricity (10), disease, DR 5/magic, SR 16, evasion
Special: Daylight, darkvision (at will), smite evil +6 damage, bless, aid, detect evil, cure serious, neutral poison (1/day each), protect from evil (3/day)

Feats: Power attack, flyby attack, imp grapple, imp unarmed, imp trip, imp sunder, combat reflexes
Skills: Tumble, Hide, Move silently at +18 each

Items:
Adamantite glaive +2
Amulet of natural armor +1
Belt of strength +4
Bracers of defense +2
Cloak of Resistance +2
Cold iron falchion +0
Gauntlets of dexterity +2
Overpowered longbow +0
Ring of defense +1

Approx $4500 remaining for one-shot items and so forth.

Vasdenjas
2007-10-02, 10:50 AM
Thrynn Amarias - Centaur Monk 4

Str 20 (+8 race, +1 Levels, +2 gauntlets)
Dex 20 (+4 race, +1 level),
Con 12 (+4 race)
Int 10 (-2 race)
Wis 20 (+2 race)
Cha 10

HP 8d8 + 8 (47 HP (max at 1st, avg remainder))
Align LG
Init +5
Speed 80

AC 31 (+5 dex, +1 monk, +5 wis, +4 natural, +3 bracers, +2 ring, +2 shield, -1 size), flat-footed 31, touch 27

Attack +12 damage 3d8+6 (unarmed)
Full attack +12/+7 damage 3d8+6, 2 hooves +7/+2 damage 1d6+3
(Use Power Attack and Flurry of Blows as desired)

Saves +8/+15/+15 (cloak +2)

Resitances: evasion
Special: darkvision 60'

Feats: Power attack, imp unarmed, combat reflexes, improved grapple, improved natural attack (unarmed), Animal Devotion (Complete Champion)

Skills: Spot, Listen, and Tumble at +15 each

Items:
Amulet of natural armor +1
Gauntlets of Ogre Power
Bracers of armor +3
Cloak of Resistance +2
Ring of Force Shield
Ring of Protection +2
Monk's Belt
Potion of See Invis

He'd have some trouble against enemies that fly much faster than him, and possibly save or die Fort-based spells, but otherwise, I think he'd do ok.

Behold_the_Void
2007-10-02, 10:58 AM
I just had an idea! It involves a certain awesome feat from Book of Exalted Deeds. I won't say anything else.

VoP is really not as good as magic items if you have the appropriate Wealth by Level.

Ulzgoroth
2007-10-02, 11:07 AM
VoP is really not as good as magic items if you have the appropriate Wealth by Level.
It might be Intuitive Attack. Someone in a previous thread showed a wis-pumping stunning fist monk using that that looked like it might work.

PlatinumJester
2007-10-02, 11:13 AM
Well, I would actually go with 20 Cha (base 18+1 at 4 and +1 at 8). Nothing else matters. Take the Leadership feat and max out Diplomacy. Take the feat that allows UMD as a class skill. You no longer suck (although you don't use any of your class features or what you were intended for). The UMD is not necessary, but is useful none-the less.

What feat lets you get UMD?

Person_Man
2007-10-02, 11:43 AM
What feat lets you get UMD?

There is no feat that I'm aware of that gives you UMD as a class Skill. A Human can take Able Learner, and only spend 1 Skill point to buy 1 rank in any Skill, but the maximum # of ranks is still determined by your class lists.

brian c
2007-10-02, 11:47 AM
Bob the Ghost Pixie Monk 1 (+9 LA)
Ghost Pixie Monk 10 if I'm allowed LA buyoff

According to the LA buyoff rules, you wouldn't be able to start buying off a +9 LA until 27th level. So I don't think that would be allowed.




My build, hastily:

Ogre Monk: 4 racial hd, +2 LA, 4 levels of Monk.
(Ogre as on the bottom of the page here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm))

Stats are
16 + 10 = 26 Str
18 - 2 = 16 Dex
12 + 2 (level4, 8) = 14 Wis
10 -4 = 6 Int
8 - 4 = 4 Cha
11 + 4 = 15 Con

hp: 4d8 racial + 4d8 monk +16 con = average 55.5 (assuming max at first level)

Feats: Improved Natural Attack (1hd), Power Attack (3hd), Improved Bullrush (6hd), Improved Grapple (monk bonus), COmbat Reflexes (monk Bonus),

...

I'll finish later, but basically the idea is that you grapple everyone.

Crow
2007-10-02, 12:52 PM
Seems like a lot of these are just showing the strengths of certain races and templates, rather than the class itself...Oh well.

I guess that says something about the class... =D

Crow
2007-10-02, 12:55 PM
so you should make your monk capable of fighting anything.

Some of us Monk-makers don't consider the monk a front-line melee guy like so many others do. Maybe the challenge could possibly be a "series of challenges", fight or otherwise?

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-02, 01:24 PM
Well, I would actually go with 20 Cha (base 18+1 at 4 and +1 at 8). Nothing else matters. Take the Leadership feat and max out Diplomacy. Take the feat that allows UMD as a class skill. You no longer suck (although you don't use any of your class features or what you were intended for). The UMD is not necessary, but is useful none-the less.

You beat me to it. :smalltongue:

Don't forget Skill Focus: Diplomacy, Negotiator and either Smooth Talk or Harem Trained. And Improved Initiative in order to start talking before anything terrible, such as a fight, can happen.

Kaelik
2007-10-02, 01:49 PM
Bob the Ghost Pixie Monk 1 (+9 LA)
Ghost Pixie Monk 10 if I'm allowed LA buyoff

Even with LA buyoff you would still be Monk 1 because you would be able to reduce your LA to 8 when you had 27 class levels. Then you would be able to reduce your LA to 7 when you had 51 class levels, and so on.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-02, 02:18 PM
Monkey D. Diplomat

"Let's talk."

half-elf monk 10

Strength: 8
Intelligence: 16
Dexterity: 12
Wisdom: 11
Constitution: 10
Charisma: 20 (+2 from levels)

Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike (monk bonus), Stunning Fist (monk bonus), Smooth Talk (source: Player's Guide to Faerun, can make Diplomacy check as a full-round action at only -5 penalty), Deflect Arrows (monk bonus), Skill Focus: Diplomacy, Improved Disarm (monk bonus), Negotiator, Improved Initiative

Hit Points: 48.5 average (with max at first level)

Initiative: +5 (+1 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)

AC: 13 (lulz)

Speed: 60

Attacks: Who cares?

Skills:

Diplomacy: 40 (13 ranks, +5 Charisma, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Negotiator, +2 racial, +2 synergy: Sense Motive, +3 Circlet of Persuasion, +10 Greater Choker of Eloquence)
Disguise: 24 (6.5 cross-class ranks, +10 Ring of Chameleon Power [disguise self effect], +5 Charisma, +3 Circlet of Persuasion)
Spot: 19 (13 ranks, +1 racial, +5 Eyes of the Eagle)
Hide: 24 (13 ranks, +1 Dexterity, +10 Ring of Chameleon Power)
Move Silently: 19 (13 ranks, +1 Dexterity, +5 Boots of Elvenkind)
Speak Language: 6 additional languages (6.5 cross-class ranks)
Sense Motive: 15 (13 ranks, +2 Negotiator)

Languages spoken: Common and Elven -- free; Draconic, Giant and Goblin -- bonus languages based on Intelligence; Gnoll, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, Undercommon and Auran: languages learned via Speak Language

Gear:

Circlet of Persuasion (4,500)
Boots of Elvenkind (2,500)
Ring of Chameleon Power (12,700)
Eyes of the Eagle (2,500)
Greater Choker of Eloquence (source: Complete Adventurer) (24,000)
Heward's Handy Haversack (seriously, who doesn't have one of these?) (2,000)
Potion of Tongues (just in case) (750)

Total cost: 48,950

Crow
2007-10-02, 02:39 PM
I still think we should have a series of challenges of varying types. Sort of like a "Monk Olympics".

cupkeyk
2007-10-02, 02:45 PM
I will fill out the other details when I get the time but this is what I have so far:

Dwarf
STR20(26), DEX17, Con 12, INT11, WIS12, CHA 6

AC 16 FFAC13 TAC16
Saves
Fort 8
Reflex 10
Will 8
Speed: 50

Feats:
1hammerfist
3twf
6snapkick
9itwf

Skills:
Balance 5, Jump 12, Climb12, Tumble9

Skill Tricks: Walk the Walls, Extreme Leap, Wall Jumper, Corner Perch, Leaping Climber

Class Features:
Ki strike, (lawful, magic)
slow fall 50 ft.
Unarmed Srike : 1d10
Unarmed AC Bonus: +2
Unarmed Speed Enhancement: +30
Improved evasion
Wholeness of body
Purity of body
Ki strike (magic)
Still mind
Decisive Strike
unarmed strike

Basically, this takes advantage of Hammerfist(RoF)'s drawback of foregoing flurry in favor of +1.5 STR Bonus to unarmed strikes by taking the decisive strike class feature instead of flurry of blows.

Equipped with a Belt of Giant's Strength and a pair of Boots of Speed this monk's full attack is at +11, +11, +11, +11, +6, +6 for 1d10+24.

Darrin
2007-10-02, 03:00 PM
I've been playing around a bit, seeing what might be possible with just monk levels... the Wild Monk opens up some more interesting possibilities, particularly when you combine flurry with pounce (megaraptor) + improved natural attack. But I was playing around with a speed optimization, and stumbled into a bit of a head-scratcher:

Cheetah's Speed from Comp. Divine multiplies your speed x10 for a charge.
Cheetah Tribe Spirit from Shining South multiplies your speed x4 for a charge. Do these stack for x14 speed, or does the x10 supercede the x4?

(I was trying to see if a 10th level monk could get near the sound barrier, but I think the best I can do is 2100 ft/round. Sound barrier is ~6500 ft/round.)

Some other tricks with monks...

Give your monk Turn Undead: Holy Monk (Dragon #310), God-Touched and Divine Channeler feats (Dragon #305), or Sun Soul Monk (Champions of Valor, Lathander version).

Give your monk spontaneous spellcasting: Magical Training (FRCS, gives three 0-level cantrips and sorta-caster-level 1), Precocious Apprentice (CompArc, 2nd level spell, Alter Self or Wraithstrike can be interesting). To add a 1st level spell slot (for reserve feats, etc.), take Practiced Spellcaster (Comp. Arc/Div) at 3rd (or 1st with a Flaw) to give you a high enough caster level for Extra Slot (for a 1st level slot, slip in a Bloodline level and you can get this at 3rd level) and Extra Spell (Enlarge Person, Mage Armor, Grease, Expeditious Retreat, Benign Transposition).

Reduce MAD: Carmendine Monk (Champions of Valor) or Kung Fu Genius (Dragon Compendium) to switch your Wis abilities to Int. Ascetic Mage + Magical Training + Precocious Apprentice to switch Wis abilites to Cha.

Then again, I'm not sure Magical Training + Precocious Apprentice is legal... Magical Training grants a caster level for determining spell effects but I'm not sure it's the same as "arcane caster level 1st".

ocato
2007-10-02, 03:04 PM
You cannot take TWF for a monk, because they are incapable of off hand attacks with their unarmed strikes. Unless the variant you are citing is specifically able to, the idea is that you get a better version of TWF for free: Flurry of Blows. Giving up flurry of blows cannot be solved with TWF.

Crow
2007-10-02, 03:06 PM
You cannot take TWF for a monk, because they are incapable of off hand attacks with their unarmed strikes. Unless the variant you are citing is specifically able to, the idea is that you get a better version of TWF for free: Flurry of Blows. Giving up flurry of blows cannot be solved with TWF.

Do you have a source for that?

ocato
2007-10-02, 03:11 PM
Unarmed Strike
At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

A quick glance at flurry of blows shows that it is pretty much identical to TWF, except you don't lose STR to attacks and with levels, it advances to be superior. It also requires no feats.

Crow
2007-10-02, 03:13 PM
Nice, so you can still use two monk weapons and flurry too.

Thanks!

tainsouvra
2007-10-02, 03:14 PM
"Hark? What's that I hear? A fight is about to break out!" ZOOOOOOM! Roll Diplomacy, -5 for rushed, worst result I can possibly get even on a natural 1 is a one-step improvement from Hostile to Unfriendly, and ... BOOM! Violence averted! :smallbiggrin: -10 for rushed.

cupkeyk
2007-10-02, 03:16 PM
CLICKITY (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070410a)


If a monk is not using her flurry of blows ability, she can claim an extra attack from a second weapon. If she does, she takes all the penalties for attacking with two weapons and for attacking with off-hand weapons. A monk using an unarmed strike as an off-hand attack does not suffer any off-hand penalties; however, under the regular rules for two-weapon fighting you get only one extra attack for an off-hand weapon.

For example a 7th-level monk with a Strength score of 15 that uses a longspear as a primary weapon and makes an off-hand unarmed attack has attack bonuses that are +3 longspear, +7 unarmed. This breaks down as follows: The longspear is +5 base, +2 Strength, -4 two-weapon (off-hand weapon is light). The unarmed strike is +5 base, +2 Strength -- off-hand penalties don't apply to a monk's unarmed strike. Because a longspear is a two-handed weapon, damage from the weapon is 1d8+3. Damage for the unarmed strike is 1d8+2 -- a monk gets her full Strength bonus for unarmed strikes, even when used as off-hand attacks.

emphasis mine

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-02, 03:17 PM
-10 for rushed.

Not with the feat Smooth Talk. That cuts it to -5. :smallwink:

Edit: I might trade in Perform for Tumble, though. I forgot about that, and it's a useful skill. And maybe 5 ranks of Balance.

Edit 2: Better yet, Speak Language. Language barriers would kill that character.

ocato
2007-10-02, 03:18 PM
Nice, so you can still use two monk weapons and flurry too.

Thanks!

I always forget about monk weapons because, well, the only reason I can find to use one is if its magical for DR purposes or you want to wield 2 sais to hella disarm but attack with your unarmed kicks. I guess you can take TWF, but it only applies to special monk weapons. I'm sorry, my mistake.

tainsouvra
2007-10-02, 03:18 PM
Not with the feat Smooth Talk. That cuts it to -5. :smallwink: Ah. You might have wanted to include that in your build, and possibly the source for it.

Crow
2007-10-02, 03:18 PM
CLICKITY (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070410a)


If a monk is not using her flurry of blows ability, she can claim an extra attack from a second weapon. If she does, she takes all the penalties for attacking with two weapons and for attacking with off-hand weapons. A monk using an unarmed strike as an off-hand attack does not suffer any off-hand penalties; however, under the regular rules for two-weapon fighting you get only one extra attack for an off-hand weapon.

For example a 7th-level monk with a Strength score of 15 that uses a longspear as a primary weapon and makes an off-hand unarmed attack has attack bonuses that are +3 longspear, +7 unarmed. This breaks down as follows: The longspear is +5 base, +2 Strength, -4 two-weapon (off-hand weapon is light). The unarmed strike is +5 base, +2 Strength -- off-hand penalties don't apply to a monk's unarmed strike. Because a longspear is a two-handed weapon, damage from the weapon is 1d8+3. Damage for the unarmed strike is 1d8+2 -- a monk gets her full Strength bonus for unarmed strikes, even when used as off-hand attacks.

[i]emphasis mine[/]

Even better. This may make two-weapon fighting a half-way viable technique for a non-sneak attack class....

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-02, 03:28 PM
Ah. You might have wanted to include that in your build, and possibly the source for it.

Done. :smallsmile:

SpikeFightwicky
2007-10-02, 03:38 PM
Bob the Ghost Pixie Monk 1 (+9 LA)
Ghost Pixie Monk 10 if I'm allowed LA buyoff

Noteworthy abilities: Greater Invisibility, Rejuvenation, Telekinesis, Flight, DR 10/cold iron.

While practicing his Kung-Fu, Bob the Pixie was slain by party of Monk adventurers. Now his soul wanders the planet killing other monks, doomed to be a ghost until all Monks everywhere have been killed.

I won't bother to stat out the feats and abilities. Ghosts can't be killed until they can rest in peace. If destroyed (which is hard to do, considering the fact that he has Greater Invisibility and Telekinesis, which means he can just fly above you Invisible and attack you with anything lying around until you're dead) Bob just rejuvenates 2d4 later, intent on tracking down and killing all monks.

So, do I win?

Doesn't really help out the monks' plight, though... you could just as easily make a commoner pixie and end up with a near identical creature (though the fluff is hillarious!)

(EDIT) BTW, to the OP, the stat array is TERRIBLE (for me, anyways)... I'd suggest switching it to some point buy value.

ocato
2007-10-02, 04:42 PM
Wait, if I understand this, you can wield a two handed weapon and, with TWF, get your unarmed damage as well with no loss of strength and a -2 to both attacks. So a paladin with a 1 level dip in monk and Ascetic Knight can power attack with his greatsword and then kick with those sexy monk dice (with a real base attack bonus too). So if you have Two Weapon Pounce, you can leap attack and flying kick at the same time... not necessarily godly, but the flavor is delicious.

Indon
2007-10-02, 04:48 PM
It might be Intuitive Attack. Someone in a previous thread showed a wis-pumping stunning fist monk using that that looked like it might work.

Vow of Peace might be pretty good for a soloing character.

Edit: Touch of Golden Ice would be a bit stronger, come to think of it.

cupkeyk
2007-10-02, 04:48 PM
Not entirely new though, Lion Totem Barbarian Dip is better as a non chaotic barbarian only loses the ability to rage and still gets pounce and full bab.

ocato
2007-10-02, 04:57 PM
Yeah, but the paladin stacks with the monk levels for unarmed damage and smite.

lord_khaine
2007-10-02, 05:03 PM
Pappa Bear monk1/werebear 6

Hp : 35+52 = 87
Ac : 10-1 size+1 dex + 3 wis +7 natural = 20

str 16 +16 bear +4 item =36
dex 10 +2 bear =12
con 18 +8 bear =26
wis 12 +2 bear +2 item =14
int 11+1 stat gain =12
char 8

feats
improved grapple
simple weapon proficiency
improved initiative
blindfight
power attack

gear
+1 silver gauntlet 2.3k
Boots, winget 16k
periapt of wisdom +2 4k
cloak of resistance +1 1k
belt of giant strength +4 16k
ring of protection +1 2k
10 potions of mage armor 0.5 k
eversmoking bottle 5.4 k
longspear
potion of see invis*2

skills, 42 sp.
spot 10
listen 10
tumble 4
sense motive 4
diplomacy 4
move silent 4
hide 4

btw i do agree it would have been better if we had only used the standart races from the phb

AlterForm
2007-10-02, 05:04 PM
My entry, Twinkt the Dwarven Werebear! (I stuck him in a spoiler block 'cuz PCGen's output was rather large. :smallcool: )




Name: Twinkt
Race: Dwarf
Player:
Classes: Sorcerer0 Animal6 Monk1
Hit Points: 94
Experience: 45000 / 55000
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Vision: Darkvision (60'), Low-light
Speed: Walk 20 ft.
Languages: Common, Dwarven

Stat Score Mod
STR 38 (+14)
DEX 14 (+2)
CON 28 (+9)
INT 10 (+0)
WIS 14 (+2)
CHA 6 (-2)

-------------------------- Skills --------------------------
Skill Total Rnk Stat Msc
Appraise 0 0.0 0 0
Balance 2 0.0 2 0
Bluff -2 0.0 -2 0
Climb 14 0.0 14 0
Concentration 9 0.0 9 0
Craft (Untrained) 0 0.0 0 0
Diplomacy -2 0.0 -2 0
Disguise -2 0.0 -2 0
Escape Artist 2 0.0 2 0
Forgery 0 0.0 0 0
Gather Information -2 0.0 -2 0
Heal 2 0.0 2 0
Hide -2 0.0 2 -4
Intimidate -2 0.0 -2 0
Jump 8 0.0 14 -6
Listen 2 0.0 2 0
Move Silently 2 0.0 2 0
Ride 2 0.0 2 0
Search 0 0.0 0 0
Sense Motive 2 0.0 2 0
Spot 2 0.0 2 0
Survival 2 0.0 2 0
Swim 14 0.0 14 0
Use Rope 2 0.0 2 0


-------------------------- Feats ---------------------------
Diehard
When reduced to between -1 and -9 hit points, you automatically become stable.

Endurance
You gain a +4 bonus on checks relating to stamina or extended physical activity. Also, you may sleep in light or medium armor without becoming fatigued.

Power Attack
Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Grapple
You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you make a touch attack to start a grapple. You also gain a +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether you started the grapple.

Iron Will
You get a +2 bonus on all Will saving throws.

Track

-------------------- Special Abilities ---------------------
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids
+2 racial bonus on Appraise and Craft checks that are related to stone or metal.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.
+4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type.
AC Bonus (Ex)
Alternate Form (Su)
Bear Empathy (Ex)
Curse of Lycanthropy (Su)
Fast Movement (Ex)
Flurry of Blows (Ex)
Scent (Ex)
Stability
Stonecunning


------------------------ Templates -------------------------
Lycanthrope, Werebear, Lycanthrope (Hybrid Form)

-------------------------- Combat --------------------------

Total / Touch / Flat Footed
AC: 20 / 11 / 18

Initiative: +2
BAB: +4
Melee tohit: +17
Ranged tohit: +5

Fortitude: +19
Reflex: +12
Will: +11

Unarmed attack:
to hit: +17
damage: 2d6+14
critical: 20/x2

Bite:
to hit: +12
damage: 1d8+7
critical: 20/x2

Claw:
to hit: +17/+17
damage: 1d6+14
critical: 20/x2

Flurry of Blows:
to hit: +17
damage: 2d6+14
critical: 20/x2
special properties: Flurry of Blows can not be used when armored

--------------------- Special Abilities --------------------


------------------------- Equipment ------------------------
Name QTY LBS
Amulet of Health +2 1 0lbs
Belt of Giant Strength +4 1 1lbs
Cloak of Resistance +3 1 1lbs
Flurry of Blows 1 0lbs Special: Flurry of Blows can not be used when armored
Outfit (Monk's) 1 2lbs
Padded +1 (Gleaming) 1 10lbs Special: flashes and gleams give wearer a 'fuzzy' appearance granting concealment
Potion (Cure Serious Wounds) 2 0lbs
Potion (Fly) 2 0lbs
Psionic Tattoo (Empathic Feedback/Psychic Warrior/7th) 1 0lbs
Psionic Tattoo (Expansion/Psychic Warrior/1st) 1 0lbs
Psionic Tattoo (Expansion/Psychic Warrior/2nd) 1 0lbs
Psionic Tattoo (Metaphysical Claw/Psychic Warrior/1st) 1 0lbs
Psionic Tattoo (Painful Strike/Psychic Warrior/4th) 1 0lbs


Total weight carried:
Current load: Light

Encumbrance
Light: 3200
Medium: 6400
Heavy: 9600

lord_khaine
2007-10-02, 05:09 PM
btw ghosts might be able to get killed, they dont automaticaly reform


Rejuvenation (Su): In most cases, it’s difficult to destroy a ghost through simple combat: The “destroyed” spirit will often restore itself in 2d4 days. Even the most powerful spells are usually only temporary solutions. A ghost that would otherwise be destroyed returns to its old haunts with a successful level check (1d20 + ghost’s HD) against DC 16. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a ghost for sure is to determine the reason for its existence and set right whatever prevents it from resting in peace. The exact means varies with each spirit and may require a good deal of research

F.L.
2007-10-02, 05:09 PM
Mi Kick Yu
Half-Orc Monk 10
Lawful Neutral

STR 20
DEX 10
CON 16
WIS 13
INT 8
CHA 10

Skills 39 total in
Jump 13
Tumble 13
Listen 13

Feats (4 total)
Raptor School
Flying Kick
Power Attack
Roundabout Kick

Monk Bonus Feats
Improved Grapple
Combat Reflexes
Improved Trip

Monk Powers
Flurry Of Blows, AC Bonus+2,+1Wis, 1d10 Unarmed Strike, Evasion, Fast Movement, Still Mind, Ki Strke, Slow Fall, Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body, Improved Evasion

Equipment
Bracers of armor, Girdle of Strength, Amulet of Nat Armor, Boots of Flying, Etc. Enlargement, or anything else you can think of to add to damage or survivability.

Basic Tactics: Try to surprise your enemies from 120' or so away, find a mage if possible, study the mage with the raptor school, then execute a jumping charge on them. At lv 12, grab the sun school to allow you to dimension door onto people and from there grab an attack on them (a power from sun school).
In the best case scenario, you would deal:
1d10 damage (5)
1d12 jump kick damage (6)
+5 STR
+6 Hawk's Eye
+4 Eagle's Swoop
+5 Power Attack

Or 31 damage. The goal here is not to be all that useful (as even with this stretch you aren't) but to be a credible threat to your enemies so they focus on you...
[edit]
I'm not sure if it's legal, but the roundabout kick is to give you good odds of getting a second attack at the same bonuses at the end of your charge...

tahu88810
2007-10-02, 05:13 PM
Alright!
I think we have a signifigant amount of characters!
Just so last minute entries can come in, entries will close 9:00pm Eastern time on October 3, 2007. So this gives you all a day to get last minute entries/edits.

Anybody that had mistakes in their characters (Which I'll check to make sure that you don't, aswell as read what the other board members have to say) will not be entered, so please be sure to fix these mistakes before the entries close.

The challenge will be withheld until the time noted above.

And, as for a prize, it will be a custom avatar that is monk-like. I'll make it (So don't expect it to be the best, I'm gonna have to make it with paint -_-;). You can decide between it being:
A. The character you made for this contest.
B. Something else monk-related.

AlterForm
2007-10-02, 06:53 PM
I'm considering making a second monk (for fun, someone else could claim him I suppose). Can I use races from the XPH? As per my sig, I believe that this is core as well, but some people don't.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-02, 10:11 PM
I updated Monkey D. Diplomat with gear and a few skill corrections. I'm pleased to announce that with my newly updated submission, tentatively named Monkey D. Diplomat version 2.0, it is now impossible per strict RAW for me to get less than a "Friendly" result on a rushed Diplomacy check when dealing with a Hostile creature. On a 15 or better, or 30% of the time statistically, the creature will instead turn Helpful and join my crusade.

Let's spread the love! :smallbiggrin:

Damionte
2007-10-02, 10:14 PM
I thought the point of this was to make an uber monk using just monk levels.

brian c
2007-10-02, 10:50 PM
I thought the point of this was to make an uber monk using just monk levels.

Yes, but monk levels suck.

Cobra
2007-10-02, 11:36 PM
Grapplemeister
Centaur Monk
4 racial HD, +2 lvl adjustment, 4th level monk

STR: 18 (+8 racial) = 26
DEX: 16 (+4 racial) = 20
CON: 12 (+4 racial) = 16
INT: 10 (-2 racial) = 8
WIS: 11 (+2 racial) (+1 lvl)= 14
CHR: 8

HP: 8d8 + 24 = 63.5
AC: 10 (base) + 5 (Dex) + 2 (Wis) +2 (monk bonus) -1 (sz) +1 (haste) +3/6 (nat arm./barkskin) +4 (mage armor) +4 shield of faith = 33

Unarmed Damage: 4d8 + 8
Bab: +7
Bow attack: 7 +5 Dex +1 masterwork = 13/8
Attack: 7 + 8 str -1 sz +1 haste= 15/10

Grapple Check: 7 + 8 str + 4 Imp. Gpl. +4 Gauntlets +4 Sz = +27

Speed: 50 base + 10 monk + 30 boots of speed = 90

Saves: (+2 1/d from true believer)
F: 1 +4 +3 = 8
R: 4 +4 +5 = 13 (+1 haste) (evasion)
W:4 +4 +2 = 10 (+2 v. enchantment)

Feats:
True Believer (+2 to save 1/D)
Improved natural attack
Superior Unarmed Strike (+4 lvls unarmed dmg)
Improved Grapple
Deflect Arrows

Magic Items: (49k)
Gauntlet of the Talon (20k) (+5 lvls unarmed, AC and ki +4 grapple checks, ghost touch)
Monk's belt (13k) (+5 lvls unarmed, AC, +1 stun attempt)
Boots of speed (12k) (10 rnds haste)
Potion Mage Armor X 4 (200 gp)
Potion See Invis X 2
Potion Fly (750)
Potion Barkskin +3 (600)
Potion Shield of Faith +4 (600)
Potion Cure Serious (750)
Potion of Enlarge (not sure if this works on monstrous humanoids or not)
Composite masterwork bow + variety of arrows.

Tactics: Grapple targets and crush them with massive monk damage, or stay at range and pelt with arrows if target can't be grappled.

AlterForm
2007-10-03, 07:46 AM
A second one, just for kicks:

Runzaway!


Name: Runzaway
Race: Elan (Psionic)
Player:
Classes: Monk10
Hit Points: 89
Experience: 45000 / 55000
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Vision:
Speed: Walk 70 ft.
Languages: Common

Stat Score Mod
STR 10 (+0)
DEX 18 (+4)
CON 18 (+4)
INT 11 (+0)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 6 (-2)

-------------------------- Skills --------------------------
Skill Total Rnk Stat Msc
Appraise 0 0.0 0 0
Balance 6 0.0 4 2
Bluff -2 0.0 -2 0
Climb 13 13.0 0 0
Concentration 4 0.0 4 0
Craft (Untrained) 0 0.0 0 0
Diplomacy -2 0.0 -2 0
Disguise -2 0.0 -2 0
Escape Artist 17 13.0 4 0
Forgery 0 0.0 0 0
Gather Information -2 0.0 -2 0
Heal 4 0.0 4 0
Hide 4 0.0 4 0
Intimidate -2 0.0 -2 0
Jump 36 13.0 0 23
Listen 4 0.0 4 0
Move Silently 4 0.0 4 0
Ride 4 0.0 4 0
Search 0 0.0 0 0
Sense Motive 4 0.0 4 0
Spot 4 0.0 4 0
Survival 4 0.0 4 0
Swim 0 0.0 0 0
Tumble 19 13.0 4 2
Use Rope 4 0.0 4 0


-------------------------- Feats ---------------------------
Dodge
During your action, you designate an opponent and receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent.

Mobility
You get a +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity caused when you move out of or within a threatened area.

Spring Attack
When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed.

Up the Walls
Improved Unarmed Strike
Deflect Arrows
Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it.

Improved Grapple
You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you make a touch attack to start a grapple. You also gain a +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether you started the grapple.

Improved Trip

-------------------- Special Abilities ---------------------
AC Bonus (Ex)
Bonus Power Points (2)
Fast Movement (Ex)
Flurry of Blows (Ex)
Improved Evasion (Ex)
Ki Strike (Su) (Magic and Lawful)
Naturally Psionic (+2 BonusPP)
Purity of Body (Ex)
Repletion (Su)
Resilience (Su)
Resistance (Su)
Slow Fall (50)
Still Mind (Ex)
Total Power Points (2)
Wholeness of Body (Su) 20 hp/day


------------------------ Templates -------------------------
Psionic

-------------------------- Combat --------------------------

Total / Touch / Flat Footed
AC: 20 / 20 / 16

Initiative: +4
BAB: +7/+2
Melee tohit: +7/+2
Ranged tohit: +11/+6

Fortitude: +12
Reflex: +12
Will: +12

Unarmed attack:
to hit: +7/+2
damage: 1d10
critical: 20/x2

Flurry of Blows:
to hit: +7/+7/+2
damage: 1d10
critical: 20/x2

--------------------- Special Abilities --------------------
Speidee has 0 power points.


------------------------- Equipment ------------------------
Name QTY LBS
Amulet of Health +6 1 0lbs
Boots of Striding and Springing 1 1lbs
Cloak of Resistance +1 1 1lbs
Flurry of Blows 1 0lbs
Outfit (Monk's) 1 2lbs
Ring (Feather Falling) 1 0lbs
Ring (Jumping) 1 0lbs


Total weight carried:
Current load: Light

Encumbrance
Light: 33
Medium: 66
Heavy: 100

He's psionically focused all the time since he never discharges it, so he uses his Up The Walls ability to run...up the walls...and he does it fast too. With 70-ft base speed, and run, he gets up to 350 ft a round. And using that speed he...runs away. :smallbiggrin:

If Elan isn't an allowed race, go with human and spend the extra feat on Wild Talent.

Kurald Galain
2007-10-03, 09:14 AM
Seems like a lot of these are just showing the strengths of certain races and templates, rather than the class itself...Oh well.

I guess that says something about the class... =D

QFT. The most effective "monks" in this challenge are those that have the fewest actual monk levels, and even those (including my own build) would be more effective if the monk levels were replaced by levels in fighter or barbarian. Or, in one case, bard.

Except for Runzaway, of course.

It seems that the way to make an actual superior monk build would be to capitalize on the (few) unique or semi-unique monk abilities. Unfortunately, that doesn't really work out.
*It would be nice to have as many attacks per round as possible, but that doesn't work that well since flurry doesn't stack with TWF
*It would be nice to capitalize on the fast movement, but unfortunately Dungeon Crasher is not a feat but rather a fighter substitution levle
*It would be nice to do a lot with stunning fist, but there isn't all that much you can do to optimize it, either by giving it more uses per day or by upping the DC, that doesn't gimp you in other areas.
*Capitalizing purely reactive features, such as saving throws, don't make for an effective build period.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-03, 03:33 PM
A second one, just for kicks:

Runzaway!



He's psionically focused all the time since he never discharges it, so he uses his Up The Walls ability to run...up the walls...and he does it fast too. With 70-ft base speed, and run, he gets up to 350 ft a round. And using that speed he...runs away. :smallbiggrin:

If Elan isn't an allowed race, go with human and spend the extra feat on Wild Talent.

Here's a proposal for a Runzaway revision, if you don't mind my suggesting it:

xeph monk 10

Strength: 8
Intelligence: 11
Dexterity: 22
Wisdom: 16
Constitution: 12
Charisma: 8

Feats: Speed of Thought, Improved Unarmed Strike (monk bonus), Improved Grapple (monk bonus), Deflect Arrows (monk bonus), Up the Walls, Run, Improved Trip (monk bonus), Improved Initiative

Skills:

Jump: 14 (13 ranks, -1 Strength, +2 synergy: Tumble)
Tumble: 21 (13 ranks, +6 Dexterity, +2 synergy: Jump)
Swim: 12 (13 ranks, -1 Strength)
Balance: 21 (13 ranks, +6 Dexterity, +2 synergy: Tumble)

Initiative: +10 (+6 Dexterity, +4 Improved Initiative)
Hit Points: 58.5 (average)
AC: 19
Speed: 70 (as a racial ability, can improve to 100 for up to 3 rounds, 3 times per day)

That's all before adding any items. And yes, xephs start with a power point reserve (of 1 point), so this character can take 20 to become psionically focused and just remain that way forever. :smallbiggrin:

AlterForm
2007-10-03, 04:35 PM
Here's a proposal for a Runzaway revision, if you don't mind my suggesting it:

xeph monk 10

Strength: 8
Intelligence: 11
Dexterity: 22
Wisdom: 16
Constitution: 12
Charisma: 8

Feats: Speed of Thought, Improved Unarmed Strike (monk bonus), Improved Grapple (monk bonus), Deflect Arrows (monk bonus), Up the Walls, Run, Improved Trip (monk bonus), Improved Initiative

Skills:

Jump: 14 (13 ranks, -1 Strength, +2 synergy: Tumble)
Tumble: 21 (13 ranks, +6 Dexterity, +2 synergy: Jump)
Swim: 12 (13 ranks, -1 Strength)
Balance: 21 (13 ranks, +6 Dexterity, +2 synergy: Tumble)

Initiative: +10 (+6 Dexterity, +4 Improved Initiative)
Hit Points: 58.5 (average)
AC: 19
Speed: 70 (as a racial ability, can improve to 100 for up to 3 rounds, 3 times per day)

That's all before adding any items. And yes, xephs start with a power point reserve (of 1 point), so this character can take 20 to become psionically focused and just remain that way forever. :smallbiggrin:

Hmm, what if we added Dash (I think that's the feet...speed bonus?) from Complete Warrior? :smallbiggrin:

Although, then we'd have to drop some other feat. :smallconfused:

WhiteHarness
2007-10-03, 05:16 PM
It's ironic that, given all the noise that was made by the monk-lovers about how awesome the monk's Armour Class is on some of the other recent threads, most of the builds here seem to rely heavily on racial natural armour, combat expertise, magic items, or even spells that the character can't cast(!) in order to get their AC up to the point a fighter of equivalent level can achieve.

Since the idea was to show off the capabilities of the monk class rather than see what crazy/broken weirdness you could come up with, I think the challenge should have specified that the monk had to be human, and that you couldn't count magic items, spells, or combat expertise in the final Armour Class.

With such restrictions in mind, I figure that the best our monk could do at tenth level would be somewhere around [10+5(20 Wis)+2(Monk bonus)+4(18 Dex)+1(Dodge Feat)}=22. And this assumes that the monk has absolutely maxed-out attributes for his level.

A tenth-level Fighter, with no magic items, on the other hand, can come up with [10+8(Full Plate)+1(Dex bonus)+2(Heavy Shield)+1(Dodge Feat)+1(Shield Specialization)+1(Heavy Armour Optimization Feat)+1(Greater HAO Feat)]=25. And the fighter doesn't need to have two maxed-out attributes to achieve this.

Assuming 18s in the relevant ability scores and the appropriate feats, our monk might have a +12 BAB, while our fighter might have a +15 BAB, meaning that the fighter has a 70% chance to hit the monk, who has only a 40% chance to hit the fighter. On top of that, the fighter will likely do more damage and have more hit points.

This fighter would kick this monk's butt, which is as it should be.

Kaelik
2007-10-03, 05:28 PM
All Monk Game (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3287823#post3287823)

Could use a DM, and anyone willing to play a Monk-Like character, (90% of the builds here should not apply.) Testing out the Monk in game and having fun doing it (until the first TPK, where we can start arguing again.)

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-03, 05:51 PM
Hmm, what if we added Dash (I think that's the feet...speed bonus?) from Complete Warrior? :smallbiggrin:

Although, then we'd have to drop some other feat. :smallconfused:

You could, or another variant would be to add Fleet of Foot (also from Complete Warrior). I just figured that with that much speed already, what the character most needed was to be assured of acting first (and thus getting to run away before he could possibly be attacked). But what I put together was just a suggestion and could be altered a number of ways. :smallsmile:

cupkeyk
2007-10-03, 07:10 PM
All Monk Game (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3287823#post3287823)

Could use a DM, and anyone willing to play a Monk-Like character, (90% of the builds here should not apply.) Testing out the Monk in game and having fun doing it (until the first TPK, where we can start arguing again.)

why won't the builds here not apply? my monk was ten levels of monk of a core race.

Kaelik
2007-10-03, 07:30 PM
why won't the builds here not apply? my monk was ten levels of monk of a core race.

I haven't been paying too much attention to the specifics here, but the ones I've noticed are:

Pixie/Ghost/Doesn't matter what class level.
Guy who goes for Diplomacy Cheese with Monk.
Master runaway (Might also be Diplomacy guy.)

There is one person who has copied over a build, and it seems just fine. Your's might be as well.

AlterForm
2007-10-03, 07:48 PM
Runzaway, MKII!



Name: Runzaway
Race: Xeph (Psionic)
Player:
Classes: Monk10
Hit Points: 59
Experience: 45000 / 55000
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Vision: Darkvision (60')
Speed: Walk 60 ft.
Languages: Common, Xeph

Stat Score Mod
STR 9 (-1)
DEX 28 (+9)
CON 12 (+1)
INT 10 (+0)
WIS 16 (+3)
CHA 8 (-1)

-------------------------- Skills --------------------------
Skill Total Rnk Stat Msc
Appraise 0 0.0 0 0
Balance 24 13.0 9 2
Bluff -1 0.0 -1 0
Climb -1 0.0 -1 0
Concentration 1 0.0 1 0
Craft (Untrained) 0 0.0 0 0
Diplomacy -1 0.0 -1 0
Disguise -1 0.0 -1 0
Escape Artist 9 0.0 9 0
Forgery 0 0.0 0 0
Gather Information -1 0.0 -1 0
Heal 3 0.0 3 0
Hide 9 0.0 9 0
Intimidate -1 0.0 -1 0
Jump 26 13.0 -1 14
Listen 3 0.0 3 0
Move Silently 9 0.0 9 0
Ride 9 0.0 9 0
Search 0 0.0 0 0
Sense Motive 3 0.0 3 0
Spot 3 0.0 3 0
Survival 3 0.0 3 0
Swim 12 13.0 -1 0
Tumble 24 13.0 9 2
Use Rope 9 0.0 9 0


-------------------------- Feats ---------------------------
Improved Initiative
You get a +4 bonus on initiative checks.

Run
When running, you move five times your normal speed or four times your speed (if wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load). If you make a jump after a running start, you gain a +4 bonus on your Jump check. While running, you retain your Dexterity bonus to AC.

Speed of Thought
See Text,The energy of your mind energizes the alacrity of your body.

Up the Walls
Improved Unarmed Strike
Deflect Arrows
Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it.

Improved Grapple
You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you make a touch attack to start a grapple. You also gain a +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether you started the grapple.

Improved Trip

-------------------- Special Abilities ---------------------
+1 saves vs. powers, spells, and spell-like effects
AC Bonus (Ex)
Bonus Power Points (1)
Burst (Su) (3x/day; competence bonus to speed of +30 for 3 rounds)
Fast Movement (Ex)
Flurry of Blows (Ex)
Improved Evasion (Ex)
Ki Strike (Su) (Magic and Lawful)
Naturally Psionic (+1 BonusPP)
Purity of Body (Ex)
Slow Fall (50)
Still Mind (Ex)
Total Power Points (1)
Wholeness of Body (Su) 20 hp/day


------------------------ Templates -------------------------
Psionic

-------------------------- Combat --------------------------

Total / Touch / Flat Footed
AC: 24 / 24 / 15

Initiative: +13
BAB: +7/+2
Melee tohit: +6/+1
Ranged tohit: +16/+11

Fortitude: +8
Reflex: +16
Will: +10

Unarmed attack:
to hit: +6/+1
damage: 1d10-1
critical: 20/x2

Flurry of Blows:
to hit: +6/+6/+1
damage: 1d10-1
critical: 20/x2

--------------------- Special Abilities --------------------
Runzaway has 0 power points.


------------------------- Equipment ------------------------
Name QTY LBS
Boots of Speed 1 1lbs
Flurry of Blows 1 0lbs
Gloves of Dexterity +6 1 0lbs
Outfit (Monk's) 1 2lbs


Total weight carried:
Current load: Light

Encumbrance
Light: 30
Medium: 60
Heavy: 90

:elan: Run, Run, Run away from the scary encounter! :elan:

D Knight
2007-10-03, 09:35 PM
hope i am not to late but here is one more and its deadly.i think all caculations are correct but i could be wrong.

Death Male Half-Dragon(gold) Githzerai Monk 10 total 15 Lawful Neutral
Dex 18+6=24 +7
Str 16+8=24 +7| 30 +10
Wis 12+2=14 +2 |20 +5
Int 10+0=10 +0
Con 11+2=13 +1
Cha 8+2=10 +1

HP 62

AC _39_=10+7+5+8+5+4

Unarmed 3d6

Items: Monk's Belt, Monk's Tattoo, Gloves of the Talon, Bracers of Armor +8, Belt of Giant Str +6, Periapt of Wisdom +6


P.S. i could bump my damage output by 4 with Swift Scion PrC (Unearthed Arcana) 2 levels and made unarmed 3d8. and who sayed monks are underpowered with this build his effective monk lv is 24 with swift scion its 28 now that just hurts. sorry was not watching gold spending

AlterForm
2007-10-03, 09:43 PM
You're way overspent on gold, you only get 49000 (your Ability +s alone total 72K).

Crow
2007-10-03, 10:35 PM
You're way overspent on gold, you only get 49000 (your Ability +s alone total 72K).

Yes, and those level adjustments come out of your monk levels.

AlterForm
2007-10-04, 06:59 PM
Hang on, one more!

Nup-Nup

Kobold Divine Min- *Gets shot*

:smallfrown:

tahu88810
2007-10-05, 01:51 PM
Alright, as you all know the entrants have all been entered. No more.

I'll be pitting whoever qualifies against a red dragon, the staple of D&D.

The battle will start with each combatant in an open cavern, ceiling just high enough for limited flight. Each combatant will start 70ft from eachother.

I'll post the winner when I'm done with all the battles. @_@

cupkeyk
2007-10-05, 02:35 PM
Alright, as you all know the entrants have all been entered. No more.

I'll be pitting whoever qualifies against a red dragon, the staple of D&D.

The battle will start with each combatant in an open cavern, ceiling just high enough for limited flight. Each combatant will start 70ft from eachother.

I'll post the winner when I'm done with all the battles. @_@

Hmmmn, This makes a grappling monk look really good. Since a CR 10 dragon is still just Large. Oh well.

Crow
2007-10-05, 03:01 PM
Hell yeah baby, if Master Shimazu can get his Enlarge Person potion down, he may stand a fighting chance...Aside from his abysmally low reflex save.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-05, 03:32 PM
*checks back*

Yup, Monkey D. Diplomat speaks Draconic. Quickly, strike a deal with the dragon! :smallbiggrin:

cupkeyk
2007-10-05, 03:46 PM
I will fill out the other details when I get the time but this is what I have so far:

Dwarf
STR20(26), DEX17, Con 12, INT11, WIS12, CHA 6

AC 16 FFAC13 TAC16
Saves
Fort 8
Reflex 10
Will 8
Speed: 50

Feats:
1hammerfist
1 Power Attack
2 Improved Bullrush
3twf
6snapkick
6 Improved Overrun
9itwf

Skills:
Climb 12
Jump 12
Intimidate 4.0
Perform (Dance). 4

Skill Tricks: Walk the Walls, Extreme Leap, Wall Jumper, Corner Perch, Leaping Climber

Class Features:
Ki strike, (lawful, magic)
slow fall 50 ft.
Unarmed Srike : 1d10
Unarmed AC Bonus: +2
Unarmed Speed Enhancement: +30
Improved evasion
Wholeness of body
Purity of body
Ki strike (magic)
Still mind
Decisive Strike
unarmed strike

Basically, this takes advantage of Hammerfist(RoF)'s drawback of foregoing flurry in favor of +1.5 STR Bonus to unarmed strikes by taking the decisive strike class feature instead of flurry of blows.

Equipped with a Belt of Giant's Strength and a pair of Boots of Speed this monk's full attack is at +11, +11, +11, +11, +6, +6 for 1d10+24.

I hope its okay that I meta'ed a bit. I just gave my monk some skill tricks so that a flying combatant isn't so much of a problem. His monk feats are from the Overwhelming Attack Fighting style from UA

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-05, 05:57 PM
Runzaway, MKII!



:elan: Run, Run, Run away from the scary encounter! :elan:

One small correction: Runzaway would actually have 1 power point (at all times). Xephs get 1 free one, just as elans get 2 free ones.

Also, the Boots of Speed are redundant because the enhancement bonus from them won't stack with the enhancement bonus from monk unarmed speed (although you'll still get the AC bonus). A better choice would be something like Boots of Teleportation or Boots of Temporal Acceleration (the latter being very spendy but having the advantage of not requiring you to know where you're going in advance).

Let's see ... and Runzaway can get up to a 100 speed for three rounds three times per day (or nine rounds all at once), making that 500 at a dead run ... but a juvenile red dragon can fly 150, and can't you "run" while flying?

Runzaway could be in trouble! :smalleek:

tahu88810
2007-10-05, 06:00 PM
I hope its okay that I meta'ed a bit. I just gave my monk some skill tricks so that a flying combatant isn't so much of a problem. His monk feats are from the Overwhelming Attack Fighting style from UA

um...your entries late...
sorry...
but I dont wanna be a jerk soooo...

Ill accept it... ^_^

cupkeyk
2007-10-05, 06:02 PM
One small correction: Runzaway would actually have 1 power point (at all times). Xephs get 1 free one, just as elans get 2 free ones.

Also, the Boots of Speed are redundant because the enhancement bonus from them won't stack with the enhancement bonus from monk unarmed speed (although you'll still get the AC bonus). A better choice would be something like Boots of Teleportation or Boots of Temporal Acceleration (the latter being very spendy but having the advantage of not requiring you to know where you're going in advance).

Let's see ... and Runzaway can get up to a 100 speed for three rounds three times per day (or nine rounds all at once), making that 500 at a dead run ... but a juvenile red dragon can fly 150, and can't you "run" while flying?

Runzaway could be in trouble! :smalleek:

And if its a 70foot radius cavern, there's isn't much to run to anyway.

His winning way would be maneuverability, since dragons are clumsy, the dragon will lose feet to his speed every time he turns or backs up, changes altitude.

Roderick_BR
2007-10-05, 07:15 PM
Or an antropormophic insectoid monk (called `black kamen rider`, please, don`t reply to this, is just a joke :smalleek: )
Hey, back in AD&D, I made a bullywug monk, and said it was a battletoad :smallamused:
I think I'll try my hand at it... (No battletoads this time) :smallbiggrin:

Roderick_BR
2007-10-06, 01:26 AM
I know that the contest is over, but I wanted to try it.

Name: Rendar

Level: Monk 10 (44 HP)
Str 28: +8 (starting 18, +1 level 4, +1 level 8, belt +6)
Dex 16: +3
Con 10: +0
Int 11: +0
Wis 12: +1
Cha 8: -1

Initiatice: +7 (Dex +3, Improved Initiative +4)
Fort: +7 (base +7)
Refl: +10 (base +7, Dex +3)
Will: +7 (base +7, wis +1)

Attacks:
Unarmed: Attack bonus +15/+15/+10 (base +7, str +8), damage 1d12+8
Spiked Chain: +15/+10 (base +7, str +8), damage 1d8+12
AC: 10 (dex+3, Wis+1, AC bonus +2)

Feats:
Level 1: Jotunbrud, Improved Initiative, Improved Grapple (class bonus feat)
Level 2: Combat reflexes (class bonus feat)
Level 3: exotic weapon proficiency (spiked chain)
Level 6: Close-Quarters Fighting, Improved Trip (class bonus feat)
level 9: Earth's embrace

Itens:
2 potion of Shield of Faith +5
2 potion of barkskin +5
4 potion of Enlarge Person
2 potions of heroism
4 potions of cure light wounds
Spiked Chain
Boots of Elvenkind
Cape of Elvenkind

Skills
Listen 14 (rank 13, Wis +1)
Spot 14 (rank 13, Wis +1)
Hide 21 (rank 13, dex +3, cape +5)
Move Silently 21 (rank 13, dex +3, boots +5)
Tumble 16 (rank 13, Dex +3)

Basic tactics:
Rendar will avoid facing fighters and barbarians in direct combat, for a simple power attack/shock trooper can drop him in one hit. Instead, he'll use his move silently/Hide to approach an enemy, jump on him, and use his superior strenght to grapple him. His grapple modifier +24 (base +7, str +8, Jotunbrud +4, improved grapple +4) is often enough to hold a medium sized creatured.
If he tries to deal damage to the grappled creature, he deals 1d10 (base damage) +8 (str) +1d12 (earth's embrance).

If he is forced to fight an enemy face to face, he will use his chain to trip any enemy that goes his way, specially power attacking warriors. If an enemy is close enough and seems to not have much protection, he may try to flurry instead of grappling, but he'll usualy try to imobilize enemies, and flee if there's more than 1.

If an enemy looks too dangerous, he'll try to make ambushs and use his potions to gain temporary power.
Usually Shield and Barkskin against fighters, rangers and rogues, and Enlarge and Heroism against full casters, in am attempt to finish him off as fast as possible.

The concept here is a monk that will try to control the battle in the 1st round of battle, usually in ambushes. In direct combat he won't do well, as he has little defense.

A possible progression would include the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack tree, to use Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz for multiple grapples attempts, or try to damage the enemy a bit before trying to grapple, or getting some tactical feats like Elusive Target.
Maybe Acrobatic Strike so I can gain a +6 to attack with a tumble check. Combat Form and Combat Vigor look good too. And when he gets more money, start to invest more in defensive gear.

Lavidor
2007-10-06, 01:53 PM
Runzaway, MKII!

<snip>

:elan: Run, Run, Run away from the scary encounter! :elan:

You forgot the Quick trait.

AlterForm
2007-10-06, 02:13 PM
You forgot the Quick trait.

Heh, if you want to go that route:

-Trait: Quick
-Trait: Aggressive
-Flaw: Inattentive (take...Dash, I suppose)
-Flaw: Shaky (take...uh...hmmm. I dunno. Something to make you faster)

:smallbiggrin:

Cobra
2007-10-07, 02:37 AM
@Roderick_BR

What is the Jotunbrud feat and wheres it from? Seems like it could be pretty handy, since I make a lot of grapplers.

SexyOchreJelly
2007-10-07, 06:52 AM
A brief outline of my favourite monk build:

Race: Halfling

Stats: (at level 10)

Str: 6
Dex: 10
Con: 8
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 20


This is the best monk ever. He is the boss of the monk's main ability: Being useless!

What's really great is because of his enormous charisma he looks really good doing it.

Roderick_BR
2007-10-07, 10:38 AM
@Roderick_BR

What is the Jotunbrud feat and wheres it from? Seems like it could be pretty handy, since I make a lot of grapplers.
It's a local feat from Races of Faerun (1st level only, human, need to be from some city of Faerun), that makes you count as one size category bigger. It's like Powerful Build, only without the ability to use bigger weapons.
A character with Str 18, Improved Grapple, and this feat, starts with a +12 to his grapple check on 1st level.
Technically, Close-Quarters Fighting could not work, because you doesn't count like a medium creature anymore, but by raw, you still get the bonuses. You can either allow it, disallow, or change it that you start getting the bonuses starting at huge creatures, instead of large.

Penguinizer
2007-10-07, 12:04 PM
If I'm allowed to use the Half-Minotaur template from Dragon. I'd be able, failing that. Taking Minotaur, but leaving the HD out. I'm thinking that I might reach near 32 str. Using the Fanged Ring (dragon), Monk's Belt, Improved Natural Weapon, and Superior Un-armed strike. To do nearly 5d8 or more +1d6+str bonus. The using the phb decisive strike variant. On average, doing 40+10+3=53 multiplied by 2 damage. Or nearly 106 or so. On top of that, taking a -4 penalty. Reflex save = to the damage or be knocked 10 feet back and prone. that, or -2 on all to do 3 attacks at 18/18/13 attacks for 53 average each. Adding to that a full bab gore attack for 1d8+10. This would also allow me to do a free trip attempt due to the feat knock-down.

Crow
2007-10-10, 08:23 PM
Any word on the results of this thing?

AlterForm
2007-10-10, 08:50 PM
Any word on the results of this thing?

http://kscakes.com/LolCats/Uploads/Saved/when-i-kick-infinity-nobody-wins.jpg

Best. Monk. Evar.

Chronos
2007-10-10, 09:16 PM
Best. Monk. Evar.Maybe, but that's only because Samuel L. Jackson isn't a monk.

AlterForm
2007-10-10, 09:30 PM
Maybe, but that's only because Samuel L. Jackson isn't a monk.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x38/MightyDraco/defaultaspx.jpg

Aquillion
2007-10-10, 09:53 PM
Honestly, though, the problem with this thread is that pure monk just doesn't give you very many choices to work with. You can pick a race, some equipment, and some feats... Maybe some templates or class feature substitutions if you want to get fancy (although the latter might be moving away from "pure"). But even with all that, the monks we come up with are going to be basically the same.

To be interesting, this needs to allow a certain percentage of multiclassing (say, best build starting with 5 monk levels.) In this case, it's not a comment on how good monks are, just a comment on how little room the contest offers to play around with ('build the best pure druid' would have the same problem, although there you at least get to pick an animal companion.)

If you want interesting pure class builds, ask about fighters or psiwars or sorcerers or something. There just aren't enough decisions to make when putting together a pure monk to make a thread like this fun.

Chronos
2007-10-10, 10:15 PM
Nah, Jedi is probably more like Paladin or Psionic Warrior. When was the last time you saw a Jedi fighting bare-handed? Agent Ned Flynn, meanwhile, strikes me as more a straight Fighter (or maybe Ranger, favored enemy snakes), and I'm not too familiar with the class, but Zeus was probably a Factotum, or maybe a Human Exemplar.

AlterForm
2007-10-10, 10:18 PM
Honestly, though, the problem with this thread is that pure monk just doesn't give you very many choices to work with. You can pick a race, some equipment, and some feats... Maybe some templates or class feature substitutions if you want to get fancy (although the latter might be moving away from "pure"). But even with all that, the monks we come up with are going to be basically the same.

To be interesting, this needs to allow a certain percentage of multiclassing (say, best build starting with 5 monk levels.) In this case, it's not a comment on how good monks are, just a comment on how little room the contest offers to play around with ('build the best pure druid' would have the same problem, although there you at least get to pick an animal companion.)

If you want interesting pure class builds, ask about fighters or psiwars or sorcerers or something. There just aren't enough decisions to make when putting together a pure monk to make a thread like this fun.

Heh, you know what I think says the most in this thread?

The fact that most of us took LA over Monk levels (I think, don't quote me on that...:smalltongue: ). That says quite a bit about the power level of monks. :smallbiggrin:

Armads
2007-10-11, 12:07 AM
Bob the Ghost Pixie Monk 1 (+9 LA)
Ghost Pixie Monk 10 if I'm allowed LA buyoff

Noteworthy abilities: Greater Invisibility, Rejuvenation, Telekinesis, Flight, DR 10/cold iron.

While practicing his Kung-Fu, Bob the Pixie was slain by party of Monk adventurers. Now his soul wanders the planet killing other monks, doomed to be a ghost until all Monks everywhere have been killed.

I won't bother to stat out the feats and abilities. Ghosts can't be killed until they can rest in peace. If destroyed (which is hard to do, considering the fact that he has Greater Invisibility and Telekinesis, which means he can just fly above you Invisible and attack you with anything lying around until you're dead) Bob just rejuvenates 2d4 later, intent on tracking down and killing all monks.

So, do I win?

Sorry, pixies cannot turn into ghosts. Read the template.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-10-11, 12:29 PM
Nah, Jedi is probably more like Paladin or Psionic Warrior. When was the last time you saw a Jedi fighting bare-handed? Agent Ned Flynn, meanwhile, strikes me as more a straight Fighter (or maybe Ranger, favored enemy snakes), and I'm not too familiar with the class, but Zeus was probably a Factotum, or maybe a Human Exemplar.

Actually, the last time I saw a Jedi fight bare-handed was in The Clone Wars (the animated series run by Cartoon Network, taking place between Episodes Two and Three). That time was, in fact, Mace Windu. He got his lightsaber knocked out of his hand, and kung-fu'd an entire flipping army of droids.

The time before that was Obi-Wan vs. Jango Fett in Episode Two.

tahu88810
2007-10-12, 03:39 PM
Uh...
Well...
I don't wanna sound mean...
But...you were all horribly maimed, eaten, torched by the Red Dragon.

Most of you got a good hit or two in, but you were still destroyed in the hand.

Not surprisingly, the ones who lasted the longest were the ones that ran.

---

Oh well, better luck next time...


Honorable Mentions:

Twinkt did the most damage
Runzaway lasted the longest, before he was grappled and eaten.
Papa Bear was the funniest, simply from the name and template. :)
Quickling dodged the most attacks.



I'll add honorable mentions as I remember them...but I'm kind of tired right now.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-12, 06:26 PM
Monkey would only engage in Diplomacy, not actually fight ... you realize that, right? :smalltongue:

If it helps, imagine Monkey is completely incapable of attacking, like being the victim of perma-sanctuary. The point of the character was to abuse Diplomacy, not do anything distasteful like ... punch ... or something.

Also, Mace Windu is definitely a martial adept of some kind.

AlterForm
2007-10-12, 06:35 PM
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x38/MightyDraco/dragonsmush.png

deadseashoals
2007-10-12, 06:49 PM
Quickling McCan'ttouchthis

Halfling Monk 10

Str: 8 (10 base -2 Halfling)
Dex: 20 (18 base, +2 Halfling)
Con: 12
Int: 13 (11 base, +1 each for levels 4 and 8)
Wis: 16
Cha: 8

AC: 42 (10 + 2 Monk + 5 dex + 3 Wis + 4 [Pot of MA] + 4 [Pot of Shield] + 6 [Bracer of Armor] + 1 Size + 7 Improved Combat Expertise]

Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows, Improved Disarm, Combat Expertise, Improved Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting

Special Abilities: Flurry of Blows, Improved evasion, Still mind, Ki strike (magic, lawful), slow fall 50 ft., Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body

Full Attack (with boots active): +6/+6/+6/+1/+6/+6 (1d8-1)
Stunning Fist DC: 18

Equipment: Masterwork Quarterstaff, Bracers of Armor +6, Boots of Speed, Potion of Mage Armor x2, Potion of Shield x2

The Idea: make it so Quickling can only be hit on a roll of a natural 20, at the cost of his BAB, which makes it so that he can only hit on a roll of a natural 20. Then get three times as many chances as anyone else to roll that natural 20. Apply Stunning Fist where applicable; once target is stunned, coup-de-grace until death.

I'm much too lazy to work out saves and stuff. As it is, I'm sure I've forgotten plenty of things that this build doesn't take into account, and I'm also sure there are better ways of accomplishing The Idea. But there's the framework.

Potions of shield are impossible items (personal range spells can't be made into potions), stun doesn't make you helpless for coup de grace, mage armor doesn't stack with bracers, and you can only use Stunning Fist once per round unless you have Rapid Stunning. This pretty much doesn't work at all.

cupkeyk
2007-10-12, 09:48 PM
We play tested my monk against a cr 10 dragon. I died. LOLz

basically readied an action against a flying dragon and grappled it. t kept winning grapple checks and killed me. oh well. It had two hunnerd hp, and I had seventy. Pfft.

Cobra
2007-10-14, 01:08 AM
Using a CR 10 dragon against a monk is a bit silly. Dragons are deliberately one of the most under CR'ed monsters in the book, while monks are one of the weaker classes.

A normal CR 10 encounter should kill a single lvl 10 character 50% of the time. Its hardly a suprise that a dragon wiped the floor with even optimized monks. Even a CR 7 red dragon would probably win most fights.

Renegade Paladin
2007-10-14, 01:36 AM
So in other words we are looking for the least optimized character possible? The most important part of optimization is class selection, I can see that you want people to take Monk levels, otherwise the competition is a waste, but wht exactly is so un-monk-like about taking levels in Tattooed Monk, Sacred Fist, Draconic Fist, Drunken Master or any other PrCs designed for the sole purpose of helping people create powerful Monk characters?
No, the least optimized character possible is a commoner who spent all his skill points on Craft (knitting). I would say Craft (basketweaving), except any character with Craft (basketweaving) is automatically a killer build. :smallamused:

Bassetking
2007-10-14, 09:45 AM
No, the least optimized character possible is a commoner who spent all his skill points on Craft (knitting). I would say Craft (basketweaving), except any character with Craft (basketweaving) is automatically a killer build. :smallamused:

Least Optimized character is a Truenamer with no ranks in Truenaming.

Crow
2007-10-14, 10:52 AM
My monk did OK against some random CR 10's from the MM1.