[3.5] Abilities That Require Being Flat-footed

[Gen Melchett]

Just a simple question this time: What abilities require the flat-footed condition not just denied dex to AC? The only one Iv'e found is hit-and-run tactics from drow fighter (DotU 58). Anyone know of any more?

[magic9mushroom]

Just a simple question this time: What abilities require the flat-footed condition not just denied dex to AC? The only one Iv'e found is hit-and-run tactics from drow fighter (DotU 58). Anyone know of any more?

Iaijutsu Focus.

You have to NOT be flat-footed to take immediate actions.

[Gen Melchett]

Oh right, that silly one. Also I'm aware of the immediate action thing, but does that apply when you're considered flat-footed or only when you're actually flat-footed (you haven't had a turn in the initiative order yet)? It just seems a bit ridiculous that you couldn't take an immediate action while balancing (with less than 5 ranks).

[Thurbane]

Found a few things that rely on the target being flat-footed:


Ghost Faced Killer PrC: Frightful Cleave
Hand of Death (strike)
Reachrunner PrC: Pouncing Ambush
Mosquito's Bite (skill trick)
Shadow Noose (strike)

[Silva Stormrage]

Oh right, that silly one. Also I'm aware of the immediate action thing, but does that apply when you're considered flat-footed or only when you're actually flat-footed (you haven't had a turn in the initiative order yet)? It just seems a bit ridiculous that you couldn't take an immediate action while balancing (with less than 5 ranks).

Correct if you are balancing with less than 5 ranks in balance you can't take immediate actions. You are off balance and can't react properly to things.

[jdizzlean]

This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?186283-Flat-footing-compendium-(3-5)) might also help you out

[Gen Melchett]

Yeah so that’s my main reason for asking. I think the flat-footed rules are a nightmare. In terms of game balance I don’t think they’re a huge problem, but as soon as you try to explain them logically it becomes clear how poorly thought out they were.

Firstly, although obvious, it’s important to state that flat-footed is a more severe condition than being denied dex to AC. Being flat-footed not only denies you dex to AC, it also prevents you from taking immediate actions, making attacks of opportunity, and makes you susceptible to some abilities (as listed above).

One of my major problems with the current ruling is that you’re flat-footed before acting in combat, but not when struck by an invisible creature. The notion that there’s a difference in your ability to defend yourself when not yet in combat (no matter how aware or expectant you are) versus when fighting an enemy you can’t see is hard for me to accept.

The easiest way to demonstrate this is with a scenario:
A character is in a room where they know an enemy is present, but they cannot see them. Combat has not started so the character is flat-footed. The enemy (an invisible stalker) attacks the character during the surprise round and then both roll initiative. The character wins initiative and is no longer flat-footed.
Why? What changed? It seems clear to me that nothing has. The attacker is still invisible and the character is no more alert or "on guard" than when they entered the room knowing an enemy was in it. In both cases the character is disadvantaged because they cannot see their attacker, being engaged in the abstract concept that is combat should have no effect on their defensive capability. The character should be considered flat-footed in both cases.

Then there are the balancing rules. By RAW you’re flat-footed when balancing but not when climbing. Good God try explaining that one. Even worse, as was stated above you can’t take an immediate action while flat-footed, which means that you can’t use items which are activated by just a command word or even a mental trigger. So what, you can’t speak or think while balancing unless you did gymnastics as a kid??
There are more of these absurd rulings, but I feel like this should be sufficient to expose the problem.
Now for the solution. I propose the following house rule:

Flat-footed:
The flat-footed condition represents a creature’s inability to react to dangerous events normally for mental or sensory reasons. Though the creature may be physically able to shift its positioning it has no way of anticipating how or when to do so to dodge attacks or take advantage of lapses in its foe’s defenses. This may be because they are unaware of an attacker, have lost a sensory ability they rely upon to locate threats, or have been influenced by a spell or ability which distracts or tricks them.
A creature is flat-footed when it has not yet had a turn in the current combat (including any surprise round) or if a spell or ability explicitly states it is flat-footed.

Examples that cause a creature to BE flat-footed:
Has not yet had a turn in combat (including the surprise round)
Has failed a save against distract assailant (SC 69)

If a spell or ability causes a creature to be considered flat-footed, that creature is denied its dex bonus to AC but may still take immediate actions and even make attacks of opportunity (assuming the effect causing the flat-footed condition does not otherwise prevent it from doing so, such as if it is blinded or fighting an invisible creature). Helpless creatures and creatures which are both denied their dex bonus to AC and unable to act, are considered flat-footed.

Examples that cause a creature to be CONSIDERED flat-footed:
Attacked by a hidden foe
Attacked by an invisible foe
Attacked by a foe under the effect of the blink spell (PHB 206)
Attacked while blinded
Attacked after failing a sense motive check to oppose a feint attempt
Paralyzed
Stunned

Denied Dex Bonus to AC:
A creature is denied its dex bonus to AC when flat-footed or when its ability to shift its positioning is physically hindered.

Examples that ONLY deny a creature its dex bonus to AC:
Balancing with fewer than 5 ranks in the balance skill
Climbing without a climb speed
In a grapple (only against creatures outside of the grapple)
Lifting or dragging double your maximum load
Running
Have failed a save against a spell or ability which physically restrains or hinders you such as ray of ice (SC 167)

I believe this ruling more clearly illustrates the difference between the two conditions and does away with the problems cited above.
Anyone have problems with these house rules?

[rrwoods]

I want to say several ToB maneuvers, specifically from Shadow Hand, require the target to be flatfooted.

[ShurikVch]

Maneuvers: Death in the Dark, Shadow Noose, Shock and Awe

Feats:
Able Sniper (Races of the Wild)
Prophecy's Slayer (Magic of Eberron)
Tribal Trait (Dragon #352), Dawa tribe
Vae School (Drow of the Underdark)