Arch Nemesis in the Party

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

There used to be a big issue with my party when we were playing a specific campaign. There were two characters, both with maxed out Charisma, but they used it in very different ways.

Deimos (Fallen Aasimar Warlock) - Diplomacy, he is the "Face" of the party, and tends to be a massive control freak, making sure that everything goes his way, and only his way, tends to spend his every waking moment avoiding combat, always trying to use his words when before resorting to violence. When combat does start, he literally waits until one of our other party members says "Fire" before he attacks.

Jorje (Hellbred Fighter) - Intimidate, he is the muscle of the party, and tends to loaf around, carrying around all of the equipment, letting everyone else do all of the talking, until there is the slightest scent of a fight, then he tends to immediately take the quickest route to victory. He always intimidates, attacks, kills, and then waits until our necromancer resurrects him to ask any questions.

The entire party has Darkvision, all except Jorje. They cast daylight on Jorje's shield, making it so he can see.

The main offense was when we were exploring the mines, and we wandered upon a Were-Bear that was minding his own business. Deimos immediately walked up to him, and tried to convince him that we meant no harm, and were only passing through, taking a total of 20 out of game minutes, all while Jorje is waiting impatiently while Deimos is continuing to fail, waiting to just attack the bear and get it over with. FINALLY, he gives up and tries to run away, while jorge Intimidated to demoralize, and charges him, the rest of the party follows Deimos, running past the bear, while jorje is keeping him occupied. Jorje continued to fight the Were-Bear, and the party continued to flee, after about 3 rounds of combat, Deimos dispelled the Daylight spell, Jorje was now fighting in complete darkness. He continued fighting for another 6 rounds, all while the rest of the party continued to run for another 6 rounds. At the end of the 6 rounds, jorje succeeded in taking down the Were-Bear while being essentially blind, being dropped to around 5 hit points in the process. Not only would he have taken the bear down about 4 rounds sooner, had he been able to see, but they could have easily taken the bear out in two rounds, had the party stayed and fought.

I talked privately with my DM, and he said that he was actually pulling his punches closer to the end, because he didn't want my character to die, just because the rest of the party ran away, leaving him to die.

Am I playing my character wrong, he has a below average intelligence and wisdom, therefore I was playing him as the typical muscle, where he waits around until they need him, because if he tried to do something other than hit someone or intimidate, he would be a detriment to the party. I have already talked to the Player of Deimos (My Best Friend) and he said that he was just dong what his character would do, avoiding any unnecessary combat. These two characters have clashed many times, and I am beginning to think that I am doing something wrong. My friend has been playing D&D for about 2 more years than me (I just passed my first full year), therefore I don't want to accuse him of being the cause.

What should I do, because this problem is getting exponentially greater, and soon, it's going to start affecting the plot, because I'm worried it is going to throw us off course.

This campaign is set in the Meothic Empire, which is the sole enemy of the Generan Empire, where the Empress has formed a team that was given the sole mission of doing her bidding behind the scenes, acting as a "Black-Ops" team that kills anyone the empress doesn't like. We were given the mission to infiltrate the cold iron mines, and take over them, providing cold iron weapons that are very effective againts the army from the feywild that had sided with the Generan Empire. Therefore we had to go into essentially a dungeon.

Frenchie- Skeleton necromancer that heals us by dropping summoned skeletons on us, which explode, dealing negative damage to the enemy, and healing us, Except Demki

Deimos- Deimos (Fallen Aasimar) Warlock, that specializes in either shooting from a distance, or smoothe-talking people with his criminally high diplomacy

Demki- Tiefling Dual-Wielder, runs around, swinging her scimitar and rapier, stabbing anything she can get her little hands on, only one in the party that doesn't heal from negative energy (has a stache of healing potions, just in case)

Jorje- Hellbred Fighter, who's only goal is to have a high AC and an even higher intimidate, he doesn't do much, if he see's an enemy, he hits it, usually at the same time that Deimos is trying to talk to it (They don't get along well)

[Red Fel]

Am I playing my character wrong, he has a below average intelligence and wisdom, therefore I was playing him as the typical muscle, where he waits around until they need him, because if he tried to do something other than hit someone or intimidate, he would be a detriment to the party. I have already talked to the Player of Deimos (My Best Friend) and he said that he was just dong what his character would do, avoiding any unnecessary combat. These two characters have clashed many times, and I am beginning to think that I am doing something wrong. My friend has been playing D&D for about 2 more years than me (I just passed my first full year), therefore I don't want to accuse him of being the cause.

What should I do, because this problem is getting exponentially greater, and soon, it's going to start affecting the plot, because I'm worried it is going to throw us off course.

Are you playing your character wrong? Well, no, because only you can decide how to play your character.

That said, are you playing your character inconsiderately? Yes. It's clear that Deimos wanted to avoid combat. It's clear that the party sided with Deimos. It's clear that the DM was pulling punches because he didn't want your character killed. Really, it seems you were the only person at that table who wanted to fight and, from the description, that's a recurring problem.

That said, were the other players inconsiderate? From what you describe, yes. I feel like there's more detail to be had, here, but the fact that the party ditched you and left you literally in the dark is, frankly, pretty horrible. It's borderline PvP. If the players did so without first talking to you out-of-character about this tendency of yours, it'd be outright rotten. If, on the other hand, they've raised this problem with you before, and you disregarded it? In that case, honestly, their actions are almost justifiable - the PCs are under no obligation to keep a walking volatile explosive around. If your PC goes off, endangering the rest of them one too many times, they're within rights to abandon him - although, leaving him to be killed in the dark is a pretty harsh way to do it.

Basically, it comes down to this: You're with a party that appears to prefer tactics and diplomacy to brute force, and you're playing a character who prefers brute force to tactics and diplomacy. That's an inconsistency which, for the purpose of table cohesion and since it's your character who's the outlier, you have to address. You can address it in one of two ways - either have your character "wise up" and learn the merits of walking softly instead of carrying a big stick, or roll up a new character who won't get in the way. "It's what my character would do" is not really a defense, because you are the person playing the character, which means you decided what kind of character he would be.

Below-average Int and Wis doesn't mean your PC is an ultraviolent idiot. It just means he lacks some common sense, perception, and book smarts. You notice how Deimos waits to attack until instructed? Your PC could be like that - helpful, a bit simple, but obedient.

[Anachronity]

I'll second Red Fel's advice.

Additionally, this (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html) is an article by The Giant that may help. Particularly the "Decide to React Differently" bit.

But basically, it sounds like you're only doing "what your character would do", while overlooking the fact that you're the one controlling the character. By that logic, the other characters should leave yours behind entirely and cut all ties, because Jorje is a near-suicidal loose cannon who only wants to fight (from what little I know of the character), and they wouldn't realistically want to work with that because it's actively detrimental to them.

But that's no fun for you, and if the players of those other characters' players are your friends it's not what they want either. Instead try to figure out why Jorje works with the party. That's not to say you always need to go along with what the group does, but the times that you don't should be memorable exceptions that exemplify Jorje's character, rather than the default.


That said, dismissing the light spell, which cost him nothing to keep active, seems like a pretty mean move. It could be that the other players would also benefit from this advice.
And I know from experience that sitting through 20 minutes of one player diplomacy-ing an enemy that is clearly not meant to be reasoned with, while everyone else sits on their thumbs, is not particularly fun.

[jdizzlean]

the best thing any set of players can do is to let everyone have their moment in the sun. if you as a person just want the hack and slash that d&d can devolve into, that's fine, but you have to let folks who like the social side have a chance too. I would also talk to you DM, have him/her put more obvious combat AND social encounters into your games. The melee folks should have their moment just like the spellcasters. A good DM will figure out how to make that happen, a good player will help facilitate it by thinking about everyone else too.

sadly, this isn't in a lot of player's minds.

Also, the longer you guys play together, the less this will be a problem.

Unfortunately for you, your character isn't that smart, and meta-gaming a solution to them instigating you like this isn't in your wheelhouse. Plus, actively sabotaging your own group, which can be fun, is also not great teamplay :(

[tstewt1921]

Honestly I think you played that fine, I mean the whole party waited 20 minutes while trying to negotiate, which as you described failed, if the were beast was acting hostile and you jumped to defend everyone, then I think you were playing it perfectly as protecting the party and the party are in the wrong for leaving you in the dark.

[icefractal]

Running past instead of fighting seems reasonable depending on the circumstances. Turning off your shield is just gratuitously trying to get your character killed. Particularly since you weren't even the reason that negotiations failed.
Honestly, the most likely IC response is that Jorge goes his own way rather than continue travelling with those backstabbers. Which is maybe what was intended?

I think you need to talk to them about this OOC. It's clear that at least Deimos doesn't want your character in the party. And there may be reasons - while in this instance it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong, have you screwed up the possibility of diplomacy on previous occasions? A character that acts outrageously and needs to be reined in can be fun in a one-shot, but often gets annoying in a longer campaign.

On the other hand, you're not the only one with an issue. Deimos sounds like a prima-donna. "tends to be a massive control freak, making sure that everything goes his way, and only his way" is not usually an acceptable trait for a PC. It doesn't matter if it makes sense IC - the fact is that the other real people at the table deserve agency. Also, "we should resolve all problems using this skill that I am the best at, and therefore I will be the main one doing things" is spotlight-hogging, much like a stealthy character that always wants to do extensive solo-scouting.