Official Stats for a Half-Elf / Half-Orc?

[Palanan]

Are there any first-party stats for a half-elf / half-orc hybrid? I’m open to all official sources from both WotC and Paizo, so anything that’s first-party 3.P will be fine.

I’m sure there are third-party books which might have something similar, but for my purposes only first-party 3.X and Pathfinder would be helpful, thanks.

[Biggus]

Blimey this takes me back, first D&D game I ever DMed had a half-elf half-orc Monk as one of the players.

I had to homebrew the stats though, never seen any official ones. Will be interested to see if your question turns anything up.

[Rebel7284]

Mongrelfolk?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Biggus
I had to homebrew the stats though, never seen any official ones.

Interesting, thanks. Was this for a 3.X or Pathfinder game? And if so, do you remember what stats you came up with?

[Troacctid]

Mongrelfolk is a good suggestion as it represents a generic mixed-breed humanoid of indeterminate parentage. A half-fey or half-celestial orc could also be the result of a union between an orc and an eladrin. Generally, though, in D&D, elves and orcs are not cross-fertile; there are no official stats for what you're looking for.

[Biggus]

Interesting, thanks. Was this for a 3.X or Pathfinder game? And if so, do you remember what stats you came up with?

This was back in the days of 3.0. I think I just halved or averaged any bonuses where that was possible, and for any features which I couldn't do this for, gave them a 50% chance to receive each one, or let them choose one of two. I can't remember the fine details now I'm afraid, this was somewhere around 2003. And tbh as I was a novice DM, I probably didn't do a particularly good job of it anyway...

[Mike Miller]

I seem to recall something with all those half/half combinations. I feel like it had to have been some third party book.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Troacctid
Generally, though, in D&D, elves and orcs are not cross-fertile….

Is this spelled out anywhere, or is this just an inference based on the lack of published stats?


Originally Posted by Mike Miller
I seem to recall something with all those half/half combinations. I feel like it had to have been some third party book.

You're probably right--I dimly recall an old book with a number of odd hybrids, including elf/orc. Might have been a 2E sourcebook, but I can't recall exactly.

.

[Thurbane]

There's an 3rd party Amalgam template, which combines two creatures: I want to say Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary?

No 1st party source I'm aware, but then again, I don't know much PF.

I had a homebrew Half-Drow/Half-Orc race in my 2E campaign, called Blackhearts, which were based on a Fighting Fantasy creature.

[ChaosStar]

Is this spelled out anywhere, or is this just an inference based on the lack of published stats?

Book of Erotic Fantasy spells it out clearly in what can crossbreed with what.

[The Insanity]

Book of Erotic Fantasy spells it out clearly in what can crossbreed with what.
Book of Erotic Fantasy isn't an official D&D or PF source.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Hmm, so taking the stats of the orc and the half-elf, you'd expect something like +2 str, +1 dex, -1 con, -1 int, -1 wis, -1 cha (where a 1 means it's either 0 or 2). Low-light vision or darkvision. Possibly some save bonuses, resistance to sleep especially. I don't see half-orc elves growing up in elven communities, so scratch the weapon proficiencies.

Looking at the half-orc, the int/cha hits are inherited, so those can go in. Balancing that, maybe +2 str/dex is appropriate: half-elf orcs are both nimble and strong.
Looking at the half-elf, the racial immunity/resistance is inherited fully, so that can go in the mix, too. The racial bonus to Spot/Search/Listen is halved, which works fine.

So: +2 str, +2 dex, -2 int, -2 cha, immune to sleep, +2 to resist enchantments, low-light vision, +1 to Spot/Search/Listen, orc blood, elf blood. Probably add some clause about how you're shunned by elves and orcs alike (maybe a social skill penalty with elves and orcs, the reverse of the half-elf's bonus).

[Thurbane]

In the potential lack of any official 1st party support, there is some decent homebrew here: Voldur: Half-elf, half-orc (3.5) If you read it, you'll want to play it. Promise. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?238557)

[Maat Mons]

I don't see half-orc elves growing up in elven communities, so scratch the weapon proficiencies.

So, you feel the most likely scenario is a male elf warrior forces himself on a female orc captive, and then, after she escapes back to her clan, she raises the baby among her orc brethren?

Because I would have guessed the scenario with the races reversed would be much more likely. Honestly, I'm having trouble imagining any elf/orc hybrids not being raised among elves.

[ChaosStar]

So, you feel the most likely scenario is a male elf warrior forces himself on a female orc captive, and then, after she escapes back to her clan, she raises the baby among her orc brethren?

Because I would have guessed the scenario with the races reversed would be much more likely. Honestly, I'm having trouble imagining any elf/orc hybrids not being raised among elves.

Female Elves would probably be banished from Elven society.

[Maat Mons]

Female Elves would probably be banished from Elven society.

"Oh, you've been the victim of a terrible assault? Well the logical decision is to punish you for the deeds of your attacker."

[JNAProductions]

Bastards and Bloodlines was the book, I think.

[thorr-kan]

Mongrelfolk?
I was gonna go with human, but this is an even better idea.

[ExLibrisMortis]

So, you feel the most likely scenario is a male elf warrior forces himself on a female orc captive [...]
Woah, hold it, I didn't say anything like that :smallannoyed:. I think that both elves and orcs would cast out anyone trying to raise the elf/orc (regardless of how it was conceived), therefore a typical elf/orc wouldn't have elven weapon proficiencies. That's all.

[ChaosStar]

"Oh, you've been the victim of a terrible assault? Well the logical decision is to punish you for the deeds of your attacker."

Yeah, Elven hatred of Orcs is illogical.

[Maat Mons]

I think that both elves and orcs would cast out anyone trying to raise the elf/orc (regardless of how it was conceived)

I have two issues with this. The first is that I don't believe elven society is Evil enough to do what you just described. The second is that an exiled elven parent is just as capable of teaching her son swordsmanship as any other elven parent.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I have two issues with this. The first is that I don't believe elven society is Evil enough to do what you just described. The second is that an exiled elven parent is just as capable of teaching her son swordsmanship as any other elven parent.
MM1: "[Half-elves] may be outcasts from their parents’ societies or welcomed into the elven or human community, depending on the attitudes the two groups have for each other".

Elves hate orcs and vice versa. There's no way orc/elves are not outcasts. Elves are not cuddly-happy-forgiving, especially when it comes to orcs.

As for the second: that applies to half-elves too, and they don't have the weapon proficiencies (half-human elves do, as it happens, but they're not the default).

If you want to make a half-orc elf, the weapon proficiencies are an appropriate way to show that they were raised by elves. For the default hybrid, however, I wouldn't go with the unlikeliest version.

[Thurbane]

MM1: "[Half-elves] may be outcasts from their parents’ societies or welcomed into the elven or human community, depending on the attitudes the two groups have for each other".

Elves hate orcs and vice versa. There's no way orc/elves are not outcasts. Elves are not cuddly-happy-forgiving, especially when it comes to orcs.


An elf may greet a half-orc pleasantly enough, but her hand is usually on her sword hilt when she does so.
Because elves believe strongly in the power of the individual to overcome any obstacle, an individual elf is generally inclined to give an individual half-orc the benefit of the doubt. Few true friendships arise between these races, but a certain camaraderie is possible.

There's a number of factors at play. Elves tend to vary widely by subrace, and campaign setting.

Generally speaking, yes, elves and orcs have strong enmity; but nothing is written in stone.

Particularly bearing in mind that the elf-orc hybrid is likely to be a PC, and PCs are stated in many, many places to be exceptions to the norm - often breaking societal stereotypes and prejudices...

[ExLibrisMortis]

There's a number of factors at play. Elves tend to vary widely by subrace, and campaign setting.

Generally speaking, yes, elves and orcs have strong enmity; but nothing is written in stone.

Particularly bearing in mind that the elf-orc hybrid is likely to be a PC, and PCs are stated in many, many places to be exceptions to the norm - often breaking societal stereotypes and prejudices...
Clearly, the orc/elf of elven culture is a possibility; I'm not saying that it isn't. I'm saying that the 'default' orc/elf, if there is such a thing, would be "outcast", and that would not be mechanically reflected in proficiency with traditional elvish arms. "Outcast" is, incidentally, a very PC-like quality, being stereotype-breaking in the sense that most people remain part of their birth community.

[Maat Mons]

MM1: "[Half-elves] may be outcasts from their parents’ societies or welcomed into the elven or human community, depending on the attitudes the two groups have for each other".

The default assumption for half-elves is that the elven parent willingly entered a romance with a human. If romances with humans are taboo, then it totally makes sense to exile someone who willingly violated that taboo.

You're using a quote about elves punishing deliberate transgressions of their laws and customs, and claiming it proves that they also punish innocent victims. One does not follow from the other.




Elves hate orcs and vice versa. There's no way orc/elves are not outcasts. Elves are not cuddly-happy-forgiving, especially when it comes to orcs.

An adult elf/orc hybrid would obviously be unwelcome in elven society. But you're not saying members of this race are driven out when they reach adulthood. You're saying that, when an elven woman gives birth to a child from an orc rape, the community tells here her options are smothering it with a pillow or being banished from elven lands.

[ExLibrisMortis]

[...] and claiming it proves that they also punish innocent victims.
I never once mentioned victims. That's all you inserting your assumptions into my argument. I don't want them there.

[Maat Mons]

{{scrubbed}}

[ChaosStar]

You're saying that, when an elven woman gives birth to a child from an orc rape, the community tells here her options are smothering it with a pillow or being banished from elven lands.

Yeah, basically.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Thurbane
Elves tend to vary widely by subrace, and campaign setting.

Exactly the case here. This is for my homebrew campaign world, with a subset of tribal elves based in part on the Iroquois and their approach to captives, in particular adopting them to replace a fallen member of the tribe.

In this case the race isn’t as important, and once adopted the orc assumes the status of the deceased person he has replaced, including that individual’s moiety and clan. After that, he’s treated as a fully equal member of the tribe, and nature takes its course. The hybrid results from a willing union, and is raised in the tribe like any other child.


Originally Posted by Thurbane
*Voldur*

Very interesting, thanks. The stats are very close to what I came up with on a first pass for this concept, with the half-elf / half-orc retaining both greater strength and superior agility.

[ExLibrisMortis]

@Palanan: That is something of a nonstandard assumption; in that case, the orc/elf would probably share the elves' weapon proficiencies. I'm not sure what you'd consider a fair trade for them, considering that most classes that make use of the expected ability boosts (str/dex, not mentals) likely already have weapon proficiencies.


Don't try to rewrite history. I will directly quote you, quoting me.

You were specifically responding to to the scenario of a rape victim, and you were specifically saying she'd be exiled.
...

I could throw that right in your face. You edited out most of the quote to arrive at your misunderstanding of it. Here it is in full:

Woah, hold it, I didn't say anything like that :smallannoyed:. I think that both elves and orcs would cast out anyone trying to raise the elf/orc (regardless of how it was conceived), therefore a typical elf/orc wouldn't have elven weapon proficiencies. That's all.

(1) I state a general case.
(2) You equate it to a specific scenario of your own making, which you then attribute to me.
(3) I restate the general case, specifying that I'm only interested in the impact on weapon proficiencies.
(4) You're accusing me of specifically saying things about your scenario (that you're still somehow attributing to me?).

No, I'm not specifically responding to anything, and not specifically saying anything. I'm taking specific care to remain general and focus on the relevant point (the weapon proficiencies), because your scenario not one that I like to think about (my games don't go there, thank you very much). Personally, I was assuming the (admittedly canonically unlikely) romance between elf and orc. Alternatively, an alter self-casting fetishist was involved--that one is funnier.

In general, I don't think formal exile would be the typical elven response to any situation. I think they would employ a form of shunning. Not even deliberately, but their racial hatred of orcs influences their behaviour to the point that the parent(s) pack(s) up and leave(s) to be away from the askance looks and sly insults (elves are "usually CG", but they're not above irrational behaviour or pettiness).

Frankly, that you go from that to "ELM is saying that elves exile rape victims!" (and specifically, no less) is bad form.

[Aquillion]

I have two issues with this. The first is that I don't believe elven society is Evil enough to do what you just described.A society doesn't have to be capital-E Evil to do evil things or to have evil customs. Even a "good" society doubtless has many traditions and aspects that cause needless suffering.

Granted, some of this is just that the alignment system is already imprecise for people, and basically just falls apart completely when you try to apply it to any society that isn't outright being forced into evil by Lolth or a similar deity. But I don't think Elven society is meant to be seen as utopian - people still starve there.

That said, since this would be a custom race, I'd just ask the person who wants it how they envision their backstory being and what they want it to mechanically justify, then workshop it into something that makes sense and is balanced while serving their purposes.

[Troacctid]

So, you feel the most likely scenario is a male elf warrior forces himself on a female orc captive, and then, after she escapes back to her clan, she raises the baby among her orc brethren?

Because I would have guessed the scenario with the races reversed would be much more likely. Honestly, I'm having trouble imagining any elf/orc hybrids not being raised among elves.
Wow. Way to stereotype orcs and introduce severely problematic themes into the game. You know the Jhorgun'taal have their own whole dragonmarked house now, right? Also, relevant: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html

[ShurikVch]

Are there any first-party stats for a half-elf / half-orc hybrid? I’m open to all official sources from both WotC and Paizo, so anything that’s first-party 3.P will be fine.

I’m sure there are third-party books which might have something similar, but for my purposes only first-party 3.X and Pathfinder would be helpful, thanks.Firstly, I presuming you meant Elf/Orc rather than Half-Elf/Half-Orc (which would be Human)?

I have bad old news for you: no such thing!
"Official" races are well-known, and there are no Elf-Orc hybrids among them.
Neither Forgotten Realms, nor Dark Sun - which both have Dwarven crossbreeds - have such race.

Even the Midnight Campaign Setting - which is mostly free of divine interventions, and have, for example, such race as Dworc (Dwarf-Orc hybrid) is still lacking in the Elf/Orc department

The closest thing you may get is the Tel-Amhothlan from the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting (published by Kenzer & Company - not Paizo, but kinda official too, because have "the logo (https://www.tribality.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/large-DCD517669.jpg)")
The latest publishing was in the Friend & Foe: The Elves and Bugbears of Tellene (2005, cover (https://www.fanen.com/files/produkte_cover_17193.jpeg))

Why you even need "the official", if the setting is homebrew?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ShurikVch
The closest thing you may get is the Tel-Amhothlan from the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting….

Interesting, thanks—I’ll check into that.

[lylsyly]

Bastards and Bloodlines was the book, I think.

I just looked at my copy. They don't touch this combination.

I would say give them the Ability Mods of both races (which leaves open which breed of elf was the parent ;-D). Where they may cancel each other out so be it. If it ends up looking too strong for some reason then either give it an LA or tone it down.

Of course a lot of it could go along with your perception of their place in your world. Shunned? Partially accepted?

The Voldur in the link Thurbane provided are pretty good.

I'm sitting here thinking "What if they were magically created thousands of years ago and breed true. Small communities exist here and ther and they do blend in with other communities as well ......

[Maat Mons]

No, I'm not specifically responding to anything

The things you write immediately after quoting me are not responses to my posts in general, nor the quoted text in particular ... you have an interesting philosophy of communication.




Personally, I was assuming the (admittedly canonically unlikely) romance between elf and orc.

You could have saved us both a lot of time and trouble if you had said this after any of the previous four posts I made stating that I was working from the opposite assumption. Instead, you chose to repeatedly quote me and "not respond" to me, while carefully avoiding the one important piece of information you could have conveyed.




The hybrid results from a willing union, and is raised in the tribe like any other child.

Well, that's a horse of a different color.

[Particle_Man]

Another option is that if the being is 50% human, 25% elf, and 25% orc, then human DNA wins and you have a human (mechanically) with pointy ears and greenish skin.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Particle_Man
Another option is that if the being is 50% human, 25% elf, and 25% orc, then human DNA wins and you have a human (mechanically) with pointy ears and greenish skin.

I realize now that my OP might have sounded as if I wanted stats for the progeny of a half-elf parent and a half-orc parent. That wasn't my intention; as I hope I've clarified since, I'm looking for stats for the result of a union between a full elf and a full orc.

So far I've had suggestions for some homebrew (Voldur) and almost-official Kalamar material (the Tel-Amhothlan), both of which are useful to know about.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Edit: I'm spoilering this so people can ignore it more easily.
The things you write immediately after quoting me are not responses to my posts in general, nor the quoted text in particular ... you have an interesting philosophy of communication.
They are specific replies to your posts, as in, not general replies to the thread, but that's not what you said; you said they were specific to your scenario, which they are not*. Here's a quote:

You were specifically responding to to the scenario of a rape victim, and you were specifically saying she'd be exiled.
I was not specifically responding to the scenario (other than to say that I didn't say anything like it). My post addresses your scenario (not using any of the specific words you mention, incidentally) by stating that all objections of the same general kind as yours work out to the same thing, from which it falls to you to draw the conclusions about your specific scenario. Here's how the words "general" and "specific" apply to this situation:

A general (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/general) reply applies to any case of the same general kind as which was stated, as per (1) and (4).
A specific (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/specific) reply applies only to a specific case, and would be invalid in the general case, as per (5).

In casu: my reply applies to your post irrespective of what scenario of conception you choose. Hence, it is a general reply.

And yes, I have an interesting philosophy of communication, thank you very much. That's why I get/got all my good grades in semantics and philosophy of language. This, however, is basic reading comprehension, not philosophy. If a particular reading seems so wrong or strange to you, you might look for a more likely alternative reading. For example, a reading that doesn't assume that people are saying things about exiling rape victims when that wasn't mentioned at any point.


You could have saved us both a lot of time and trouble if you had said this after any of the previous four posts I made stating that I was working from the opposite assumption.
Or, you could be a bit more cooperative, and not immediately jump to conclusions. Don't insert your (rather problematic, as Troacctid rightly points out) assumptions into my argument when I tell you not to, and learn to recognize the "smallannoyed" emoji. If that's not a clue you've got it wrong, I don't know what is.


*Obviously, since you only brought up one scenario, any reply would have to address at least that scenario (i.e. that scenario specifically, or a more general case) to be topical. That's not "specific", that's "relevant".

[Mechalich]

Generally, though, in D&D, elves and orcs are not cross-fertile; there are no official stats for what you're looking for.

Elf and Orc mutual infertility was established in 2e AD&D in the Complete Book of Elves, which states this explicitly. So far as I know, this fluff was never altered at any point during 3rd edition and therefore still stands.

[Blackhawk748]

Firstly, I presuming you meant Elf/Orc rather than Half-Elf/Half-Orc (which would be Human)?

I have bad old news for you: no such thing!
"Official" races are well-known, and there are no Elf-Orc hybrids among them.
Neither Forgotten Realms, nor Dark Sun - which both have Dwarven crossbreeds - have such race.

Even the Midnight Campaign Setting - which is mostly free of divine interventions, and have, for example, such race as Dworc (Dwarf-Orc hybrid) is still lacking in the Elf/Orc department

The closest thing you may get is the Tel-Amhothlan from the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting (published by Kenzer & Company - not Paizo, but kinda official too, because have "the logo (https://www.tribality.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/large-DCD517669.jpg)")
The latest publishing was in the Friend & Foe: The Elves and Bugbears of Tellene (2005, cover (https://www.fanen.com/files/produkte_cover_17193.jpeg))

Why you even need "the official", if the setting is homebrew?

Was coming here to mention the Tel-Amhothlen, and it is an official setting. Kenzer and Co may have done the publishing, but the Setting is officially in DnD. So It should be good to go. Also the race is solid mechanically, unlike some other thingsi in KoK


Elf and Orc mutual infertility was established in 2e AD&D in the Complete Book of Elves, which states this explicitly. So far as I know, this fluff was never altered at any point during 3rd edition and therefore still stands.

This is true...in Greyhawk which is the assumed Default in 3.5. As stated, KoK (which is an official setting I must remind everyone) they exist, but are really, really rare

[ShurikVch]

Was coming here to mention the Tel-Amhothlen, and it is an official setting. Kenzer and Co may have done the publishing, but the Setting is officially in DnD. So It should be good to go. Also the race is solid mechanically, unlike some other thingsi in KoKI put the "official" word in quotation marks to show it's not completely serious
I know KoK is official campaign setting, but OP specifies "WotC or Paizo only"


To the OP: one more possible way - Petitioners (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Petitioner) of Nishrek (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nishrek) are looking like Orcs or Half-Orcs - because they were Orcs or Half-Orcs in life; being Outsiders with Evil subtype, Petitioners of Nishrek are legal to produce the Half-Fiend offspring; check the article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) about how to alter the Half-Fiend template for specific Fiends (IMHO, they should be like "standard" Half-Fiends sans wings and natural attacks)
As a tad more extreme variant, the same logic may be applied to Half-Fiends produced from a gods of Orc pantheon (Or Half-Celestials - from elven?..)

Another, less radical solution - Dragon #315 have the Orc Blooded feat; place it on a Wild or Wood Elf (they're both have -2 Int penalty; Wood Elf got +2 Str, and Wild Elf - lacking the usual -2 Con penalty)

[Kish]

Elf and Orc mutual infertility was established in 2e AD&D in the Complete Book of Elves, which states this explicitly.
It was established sooner than that, in the 1ed AD&D Player's Handbook. Still no indication of it being changed. But that only matters in the campaigns of DMs who want it to matter.

I think a lot of people (and, to be fair, a number of D&D books, particularly but not limited to the Dragonlance ones...) treat elven societies as effectively Lawful Evil, and the argument that an elven woman who bore a half-orc child and wanted to raise them would be exiled definitely suggests that perspective to me.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Blackhawk748
Kenzer and Co may have done the publishing, but the Setting is officially in DnD.


Originally Posted by ShurikVch
I know KoK is official campaign setting, but OP specifies "WotC or Paizo only”….

I’ve heard various opinons on how official Kalamar may be. I wasn’t intentionally excluding it when I specified Wizards or Paizo, just not really thinking about it one way or the other.

I’m glad it’s been mentioned, though, since the Tel-Amhothlen are a good suggestion.


Originally Posted by Kish
I think a lot of people…treat elven societies as effectively Lawful Evil….

I’ve never seen this approach, nor heard of it before.


Originally Posted by ShurikVch
Another, less radical solution - Dragon #315 have the Orc Blooded feat; place it on a Wild or Wood Elf (they're both have -2 Int penalty; Wood Elf got +2 Str, and Wild Elf - lacking the usual -2 Con penalty)….

Interesting, thanks. Not quite orcey enough for my purposes, but worth keeping in mind.

I assume you mean the Wild Elf and Wood Elf from Forgotten Realms? That’s the one official setting I’m most familiar with, so not sure if there are Wild/Wood Elves in other settings.

[Kish]

I’ve never seen this approach, nor heard of it before.
To be clear, I'm not saying they spell out "at my table, elves are Lawful Evil." I'm saying they say things like that elves, in service to strict traditions, would exile rape victims.

[ShurikVch]

I assume you mean the Wild Elf and Wood Elf from Forgotten Realms? That’s the one official setting I’m most familiar with, so not sure if there are Wild/Wood Elves in other settings.Actually, I meant Wild Elf and Wood Elf from the Monster Manual (and SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#wildElf)) - thus, setting-neutral.



Interesting, thanks. Not quite orcey enough for my purposes, but worth keeping in mind.Couple of more suggestions:

"Arctic (Ice-Dweller)" racial variant (Dragon #306): +2 Con/-2 Cha; +1 save vs. cold/-1 - vs. fire or heat; +2 on Survival checks; heavier than "base race"

Ritual of Association (Savage Species):
This minor ritual gives the character a racial subtype or type modifier such as gnoll, goblinoid, orc, or reptilian. (This ritual does not grant the human, dwarf, elf, gnome, and halfling subtypes of humanoid.) The character gains minor manifestations of the physical appearance of that subtype (DCs for Disguise checks increase by +5), but no abilities of that monster kind. The benefit of this ritual is that the character can use items as if it were a member of that subtype. Therefore, a magic sword with additional functions when wielded by an orc would also allow access to those functions for someone who successfully completed this ritual to obtain the orc subtype.
This ritual requires a 7th-level transmuter who knows polymorph.
Ritual Cost: This ritual costs the subject 56,000 gold pieces and 2,240 XP.
Level Adjustment: +0.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ShurikVch
Arctic (Ice-Dweller)" racial variant (Dragon #306): +2 Con/-2 Cha

Interesting, thanks. As it happens, I came up with that combination on my own for a variant elf race, so this is good to know.


Originally Posted by ShurikVch
Ritual of Association

This'll be "keep in mind for later," mainly because of the very high GP and XP cost.

[Eldonauran]

In my own games, I look at the problem from a perspective tied more towards genetics than anything else. Outside of divine intervention (and assuming just a tad of prior intervention), Elves and Orcs cannot hybridize. Think of it as each of the deities that created the races originally placed segments into the genetic code of each species that would essentially "self-destruct" the formation of a new embryo should a union ever take place.

Now, enter humans into the picture. They can hybridize will either of the two races, and it is possible that one half-elf and one half-Orc could unite to produce hybrized children. It is possible that the "self-destruct" instructions get lost with the inclusion of the human genetics, and thus a small chance that a (mostly) elf/orc is produced through the shuffling genetics survives to birth.

This makes the elf/orc hybrid rare enough to seem utterly impossible to occur. Then, you just need to factor in the ire of the creator deities and them NOT interfering with the mixing of their chosen creations.