Ritual Casting and Magic Initiate

[diplomancer]

If a character with Ritual Casting uses magic initiate to get a ritual spell from another class, can they cast it as a ritual? For instance, Bard gets magic initiate and chooses Find Familiar as his 1st level spell.

[NaughtyTiger]

No.


.... The caster must also have the spell prepared or on his or her list of spells known, unless the character’s ritual feature specifies otherwise, as the wizard’s does.

Magic initiate does not make the granted spell a known or prepared spell. (It doesn't explicitly state that it does and sage advice indicates that it isn't intended to)


If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.

In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.

If Mage Initiate made the granted prepared or known, then you could cast it using your spell slots regardless of class.

[nickl_2000]

Tiger is correct by both RAW and RAI. That being said, some DMs will allow it still.

[Mikal]

That being said unless you really want to have those extra cantrips you’re better off taking ritual caster (wizard) anyway. You get a lot more access to spells that way of various levels (unless your DMs crap), and expand your versatility.

Moreso if going cleric to wizard or vice verse. There’s a bit more overlap with bard and wizard, but you still get the superior wizard ritual casting which means you don’t have to actually prepare those spells to cast them as rituals.

[Greywander]

RAW I don't know that it really says one way or another, and since it doesn't say that a Magic Initiate spell counts as being prepared one probably shouldn't assume it is. The feat lets you cast the spell once without expending a spell slot. No more, no less.

That said, I do find this a bit silly. "Magic Initiate" implies that you gained that magic through some sort of study, rather than some sort of innate magic. Thus, I would think it would act like all of your other learned spells. Personally, I would allow a Magic Initiate spell to be cast using spell slots. One of the problems with the Sage Advice is that it forgets about multiclassing, and the fact that a cleric 1 / wizard 19 can cast upcast cleric spells using a 9th level slot. I don't see how Magic Initiate is any different.

As far as ritual casting, though, I'd be a lot more iffy. Generally, you can only ritual cast spells from your own class, and even then only if your class has that ability in the first place. So no, I probably wouldn't let a cleric or bard ritual cast Find Familiar if they picked it up with Magic Initiate, for the same reason I wouldn't allow them to ritual cast spells from another class if they multiclassed.

That said, Find Familiar is a bit of an odd spell to bring up for this. It's a great choice for Magic Initiate, but since you can cast it once per day as a freebie, and the effect is permanent, I'm not sure why you'd need to cast it again, as a ritual or otherwise. You should only need to do it if your familiar dies or you want to change its form, which might have some uses, I suppose. But after the initial casting, it becomes little more than a once-per-day revive or form change for your familiar, something you're unlikely to use for long stretches of time.

[Chronos]

Incorrect. One of the things that Magic Initiate says is "you learn that spell". It's now a spell known for you, and so you can cast it using spell slots (in addition to the special 1/day casting).

[JackPhoenix]

Incorrect. One of the things that Magic Initiate says is "you learn that spell". It's now a spell known for you, and so you can cast it using spell slots (in addition to the special 1/day casting).

Assuming you have a level in the class you've picked for MI. You can't cast cleric (for example) spells unless you have a level of cleric, even if you learn them somehow.

[Coffee_Dragon]

Incorrect. One of the things that Magic Initiate says is "you learn that spell". It's now a spell known for you, and so you can cast it using spell slots (in addition to the special 1/day casting).

While it's my impression that a lot of people allow sorcerers who take an additional sorcerer spell with Magic Initiate to treat it as a known spell, you'd shoot yourself in the foot applying this as a straight equation. Next time you'd level up you wouldn't gain a spell since you're already at the number of known spells listed for your new level.

[Chronos]

That says how many spells you know as a result of your class. The Magic Initiate spell doesn't count in that total, since it's not a spell you know as a result of your class.

As for only using your class spell slots to cast class spells, that leads to very weird interactions for multiclassed characters, who don't have distinct spell slots for their different classes.

[Coffee_Dragon]

So you're saying when the Spellcasting feature says "to cast one of these sorcerer spells", it does include the Magic Initiate spell, but when it says "shows when you learn more sorcerer spells", it does not?

[Chronos]

OK, so what happens when a wizard with MI: Cleric multiclasses into sorcerer? Does gaining a third unrelated source of casting somehow enable you to cast cleric magic better?

[JackPhoenix]

OK, so what happens when a wizard with MI: Cleric multiclasses into sorcerer? Does gaining a third unrelated source of casting somehow enable you to cast cleric magic better?

Nothing. He'll get spell slots per the table, and he can use them to cast either wizard or sorcerer spells, while knowing (or preparing) each according to the level in the respective class. As he's got no cleric levels, he can't ready or cast cleric spells using normal spellcasting (that ability is granted at 1st level in cleric class), but he can use the 1/LR spell granted by MI.

[diplomancer]

Does it make any difference if the spell learned is also on the class list? For example, a Bard that takes Magic Initiate: Warlock, and chooses as his 1st level spell Unseen Servant. Would he be able to ritual cast it?