Symbol of Persuasion - does it really work as a trap?

[rferries]

The symbol spells are pretty clearly intended to work as traps (munchkins inscribing them on carried objects notwithstanding). However, what effect would a symbol of persuasion trap have on adventuring party, if the villain isn't there to talk to any charmed characters?

By RAW the symbol arguably wouldn't have any effect... by RAI should the PCs suddenly feel bad about raiding the home of their "friend" and leave, replacing any treasure they've stolen?

[Saintheart]

The symbol spells are pretty clearly intended to work as traps (munchkins inscribing them on carried objects notwithstanding). However, what effect would a symbol of persuasion trap have on adventuring party, if the villain isn't there to talk to any charmed characters?

By RAW the symbol arguably wouldn't have any effect... by RAI should the PCs suddenly feel bad about raiding the home of their "friend" and leave, replacing any treasure they've stolen?

A lazy dragon might leave a couple outside his lair, imploring visitors to cast off their gold and leave. The effect lasts for hours rather than minutes, plenty of time for them to go a good forty miles or so before they realise it was a bad idea.

[Troacctid]

Easy enough—the symbol is meant to be triggered when the caster is present. A wizard might set one up in her personal chambers, for example, to help protect her against assassination attempts. Or a symbol might be placed in a throne room, triggering if anyone draws a weapon in the presence of the monarch.

[rferries]

Thanks both for your comments! But I'm still wondering what happens if the symbol is triggered without the caster there to take advantage of it. Though perhaps this is simply at the DM's discretion.

[Segev]

Thanks both for your comments! But I'm still wondering what happens if the symbol is triggered without the caster there to take advantage of it. Though perhaps this is simply at the DM's discretion.

The targets are charmed by the caster. What happens when you cast charm monster and then walk away without revealing yourself to your new buddy?

[Pippa the Pixie]

Thanks both for your comments! But I'm still wondering what happens if the symbol is triggered without the caster there to take advantage of it. Though perhaps this is simply at the DM's discretion.

By the rules....the spell is a bit useless. A target is charmed...wow. So, nothing happens. Unless the caster comes along and attempts to use the charm effect.

Really, I always use the Symbol of Persusasion based of the spell Suggestion. It's a Suggestion trap. Most often to simply ''turn around" or ''turn and walk west" (into a trap).

[Jack_Simth]

Thanks both for your comments! But I'm still wondering what happens if the symbol is triggered without the caster there to take advantage of it. Though perhaps this is simply at the DM's discretion.

Those who suffer the Symbol view the caster as a trusted friend, and think of the caster's actions in the best possible light.

What happens next depends on why the folks are there, and what they know about the caster's relationship with the place.

Would you knowingly rob a trusted friend's home? Certainly not! However, one might "borrow" a desperately needed item without asking, and defeat the defenses in the process. However, you will try to do as little harm as possible along the way. Which likely means no looting. If you know it's your friend's home, and you are on a fetch quest.

If you don't know it is your trusted friend's home? You're free to act until you find out.

If you're there specifically to kill the caster... you're essentially going to forget about why you are there. After all, it's your trusted friend! Can't be guilty of anything important! Time to put your friend's things away and go home.

If you know that the thing you're after is the caster. If you're just after the mysterious creature that supposedly lives in these caves, and have no idea who that might be, you are free to act until you meet the caster (you didn't know it was your trusted friend!).

It's certainly much more effective when the caster is right there, but it's not entirely useless in relative isolation. You just need to make sure anyone going through the trapped area knows who the place belongs to.

[rferries]

Righto, thanks again everyone. Seems like DM interpretation is called for...and like this spell was written for abuse by PCs :p.

[elonin]

Another use would be use a magic mouth programmed to trigger whenever the glyph would be triggered to leave some instruction for the victim.

[Segev]

By the rules....the spell is a bit useless. A target is charmed...wow. So, nothing happens. Unless the caster comes along and attempts to use the charm effect.

Really, I always use the Symbol of Persusasion based of the spell Suggestion. It's a Suggestion trap. Most often to simply ''turn around" or ''turn and walk west" (into a trap).

As others have noted, you now view the caster as a trusted friend...whenever you happen to run into him later. So he leaves the symbol of persuasion in one or two common areas, particularly for any invaders to come through. If his other defenses don't handle them, but they failed their saves, by the time they get to him, they'll find him to be a trustworthy fellow and somebody they're good friends with. They'll listen to what he has to say, and even can be browbeaten, a bit, maybe cajoled, into doing him a favor they might otherwise not do (if he can win opposed Charisma checks).

But, also, like I said, if it's a permanent one, he can leave it hanging on the tapestry over the door to his throne room, and have everybody who enters be positively enamored with him. Replace "throne room" with "office" or "conference room" or wherever else is most useful for him to count on nearly everybody being on best buddies terms and willing to do nearly anything he asks.


In the Useless Magic Items thread, I suggested a portrait of King Populon the Well-Liked. History records this sorcerer-king as popular and beloved by all, and, indeed, everybody who looks upon his portrait agrees he was a great guy. Possibly their favorite historical figure. Worked into the self-portrait is a permanent symbol of persuasion. It's useless NOW, of course, because the well-liked King is long dead, but when he was alive, anybody who saw the painting was liable to be one of his fans when they finally met him.

[rferries]

Another use would be use a magic mouth programmed to trigger whenever the glyph would be triggered to leave some instruction for the victim.

Now this is a clever workaround, thanks!


In the Useless Magic Items thread, I suggested a portrait of King Populon the Well-Liked. History records this sorcerer-king as popular and beloved by all, and, indeed, everybody who looks upon his portrait agrees he was a great guy. Possibly their favorite historical figure. Worked into the self-portrait is a permanent symbol of persuasion. It's useless NOW, of course, because the well-liked King is long dead, but when he was alive, anybody who saw the painting was liable to be one of his fans when they finally met him.

Ha another winning idea! Actually works well as a bit of flavour for a campaign, whether it not it becomes plot-relevant.