Contingency use ruling

[ThatDuckGrant]

So I’m building a bard and considering taking contingency as a way to help with damage mitigation. I know resilient sphere works perfectly for this, except that it requires and extra MS pick and concentration.

So here is my crazy idea as the questions I have about it.
I cast dissonant whispers on myself, and move out of range of a big AOE (like dragon breath)
If I cast dissonant whispers on myself, and fail the save, do I get to move?
Which direction do I move? Technically, any direction gets me as far away from myself as possible.
What if I’m mounted on a greater steed? The find greater steed spell says that any spell that targets only me, can also target my steed, but contingency says I only get to target myself. If I could target both of us, would the steed drop me and run?

[JackPhoenix]

If you cast Dissonant Whispers on yourself, you'll have to commit suicide. It's the only way to get away from the horror of your existence.

[Man_Over_Game]

So I’m building a bard and considering taking contingency as a way to help with damage mitigation. I know resilient sphere works perfectly for this, except that it requires and extra MS pick and concentration.

So here is my crazy idea as the questions I have about it.
I cast dissonant whispers on myself, and move out of range of a big AOE (like dragon breath)
If I cast dissonant whispers on myself, and fail the save, do I get to move?
Which direction do I move? Technically, any direction gets me as far away from myself as possible.
What if I’m mounted on a greater steed? The find greater steed spell says that any spell that targets only me, can also target my steed, but contingency says I only get to target myself. If I could target both of us, would the steed drop me and run?


You do technically get to move.
You're right about the direction, but a DM will realistically either let you choose, or decide to have you flee as far away from all threats.
The Steed would likely become an Independent mount for that time and try to run away from you (since you're the source of Dissonant Whispers).

[Mellack]

You will have to check with your DM on what they think about automatically failing a save by choice. If they do not allow that, you would be hurting yourself for no gain. Even with it, you are doing 3d6 damage to yourself to hopefully leave the area, that seems fair.

[Rukelnikov]

So I’m building a bard and considering taking contingency as a way to help with damage mitigation. I know resilient sphere works perfectly for this, except that it requires and extra MS pick and concentration.

So here is my crazy idea as the questions I have about it.
I cast dissonant whispers on myself, and move out of range of a big AOE (like dragon breath)
If I cast dissonant whispers on myself, and fail the save, do I get to move?
Which direction do I move? Technically, any direction gets me as far away from myself as possible.
What if I’m mounted on a greater steed? The find greater steed spell says that any spell that targets only me, can also target my steed, but contingency says I only get to target myself. If I could target both of us, would the steed drop me and run?

You may get to pull off the move, though I see a random direction or away from all threats coming.

what would be the trigger though?

[Keravath]

Just curious .. I don't really see how contingency could be used to move you out of the way of an AoE spell.

The wording of contingency is the following:

"The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time, whether or not you want it to, and then contingency ends."

Contingency takes place "immediately AFTER the circumstance is met". So if the trigger for contingency is someone casting a fireball with you in range then the contingency hits AFTER the fireball goes off since until the spell goes off you don't know it is a fireball.

I suppose you could specify the trigger of contingency to be "an enemy spellcaster begins to cast a spell" but at that point you don't know what spell it will be so the contingent response might not be appropriate or useful.

Presumably, a bard could use "Circle of Power" as the contingent spell which is a 30' radius advantage on saves vs magic and trigger it off any enemy spell casting but the spell is concentration so it would replace any concentration spell the bard already had up ... or does the bard have a choice of which spell to concentrate on?

[Man_Over_Game]

I mean, with such a specific trigger, with a damaging spell, and the fact that you're using Contingency to do it, is it really that big of a deal that he uses it to run away?

He could have used Shield. He could have used Absorb Elements. Hell, he could have cast Dimension Door or Thunder Step, but instead he's afflicting himself with Psychic Damage and potentially provoking Opportunity Attacks.

[Wildarm]

If you're just looking to protect against damage why not just upcast Cure Wounds to 5th level with the condition of you being reduced below half HP.

[Aquillion]

This doesn't seem like a good plan. Even if it works, you'll hurt yourself, take 3d6 damage, consume your reaction (or take the damage to no purpose if it was already used up) and probably won't get to control how you move.

Especially since Bards have many better spells to Contingency. Consider these:

Freedom of Movement. Get out of jail free card for lots of unpleasant situations.

Lesser Restoration. Warding yourself against Paralysis or Poison can prevent a TPK.

Greater Restoration. Sadly has a 300 gp down payment, but it can absolutely prevent a TPK.

Revivify. 300 gp down payment, requires another spell secret, not all DMs allow it for timing reasons.

Polymorph. Requires concentration, drastically changes your abilities, can be awkward - but can also give you massive combat power and a bunch of extra HP when you're on the verge of death; hulking out into a Great Ape or T-Rex can absolutely save your life.

Dimension Door. This just seems like a much better escape option, and it lets you bring a buddy with you. Depends on how your DM lets you specify the contingent casting, though.

Dispel Magic. Can save you from all sorts of nasty stuff.

See Invisibility. Only if your DM lets your contingencies go off on stuff you can't see.

Cure Wounds. Upcast to 5th. 5d8 + 5 extra HP is nothing to sneeze at. Note that this can save you from incapacitation when your HP hit zero, provided you aren't killed in one hit.

[Rukelnikov]

Revivify. 300 gp down payment, requires another spell secret, not all DMs allow it for timing reasons.

What kind of timing issues? Like "10 seconds after I die"?

[Man_Over_Game]

Agreed.

Concentration Spells may end when you die, but other spells don't. Revivify works after a minute, so you could just wait 30 seconds.

The problem with theorycrafting this kind of stuff is that we need to remember that almost nobody can get Contingency, and you also have to pay attention to what spells those builds have access to.

There are 3 options to get Contingency:


Wizard level 11+
(Lore) Bard for Magical Secrets
Arcana Cleric Capstone.



So unless you're talking about some weird Wizard 11, Cleric 7 build for a level 18 character, I don't think it's very reasonable to consider things like Revivify.

[Aquillion]

What kind of timing issues? Like "10 seconds after I die"?
My concern is more this part:

Also, contingency ends on you if its material component is ever not on your person.
DMs could reasonably be skeptical about whether it's on your person after you die. Is your corpse still you?

In practice I suspect it would generally be allowed because it's cool and not really all that gamebreaking (you survive one hit with 1 hp, and have to pay 300 GP a pop in advance and devote a magical secret to that trick.)

Honestly, unless you're expecting instant death, Cure Wounds is almost always better (and doesn't require two magical secrets.) I'd much rather come back with 5d8+5 HP most of the time, than come back with 1 HP all of the time.

In fact, as cool as it looks on paper, another major problem with Contingent Revivify is that it doesn't save you from incapacitation from damage, which is far more common than instant death. Your contingent revivify won't go off, meaning your party might get killed around you - most enemies won't waste time finishing you off while they're still alive. By the time you actually die and come back with 1 HP, it could easily be too late to fix anything.

Whereas Contingent Cure Wounds will pop you back into the game as soon as you're knocked to 0 hp, provided you weren't slain in one hit, and also gives you a buffer to keep you from immediately dying again.

(That said, all of this is an argument to allow it, since it's thematically cool but not actually very powerful compared to the straightforward and obviously-allowed power of contingent healing.)

[JackPhoenix]

What kind of timing issues? Like "10 seconds after I die"?

Revivify can't target you while you're still alive, which is when you're setting up the Contingency.

[Aquillion]

Of course, another option is to set up a Contingent Revivify for almost a minute after your death (which might let you take the enemies by surprise.) You'd have to hope they don't loot or desecrate your body, though.

But most of the time I think I'd prefer the "Contingent 5th-level Cure Wounds when HPs hit zero", which is simple, straightforward, and provides a constant buffer to keep you in the game.


There are 3 options to get Contingency:


Wizard level 11+
(Lore) Bard for Magical Secrets
Arcana Cleric Capstone.


So unless you're talking about some weird Wizard 11, Cleric 7 build for a level 18 character, I don't think it's very reasonable to consider things like Revivify.

You can also Contingency things out of a Ring of Spell Storing, if you have one. Unfortunately Contingency itself is too big to fit in there, but a Wizard could borrow a 5th level Cure Wounds casting from their Cleric to contingency it on themselves, for instance.

[Rukelnikov]

Revivify can't target you while you're still alive, which is when you're setting up the Contingency.

To move on from this, and go back to just the timing issues.

I kill myself, a party memeber Revivifies me, now I Wish/Contingency, and since I died within the last minute am a valid target for Revivify.


My concern is more this part:

DMs could reasonably be skeptical about whether it's on your person after you die. Is your corpse still you?

Well, that is a valid question I guess, however, the very text of revivify kind of gives us the answer:

"You touch a creature that has died within the last minute. That creature returns to life with 1 hit point."

So, it is still considered a creature, even when dead, which to me rings all kinds of bells, but apparently, you are still you even when dead.

EDIT: Regarding the effectiveness, yeah, I'd probably wouldn't use that contingency, I generally go for extra castings with triggers like "When I say Cowabunga" or "When I make this gesture", etc.

[Man_Over_Game]

To move on from this, and go back to just the timing issues.

I kill myself, a party memeber Revivifies me, now I Wish/Contingency, and since I died within the last minute am a valid target for Revivify.



Well, that is a valid question I guess, however, the very text of revivify kind of gives us the answer:

"You touch a creature that has died within the last minute. That creature returns to life with 1 hit point."

So, it is still considered a creature, even when dead, which to me rings all kinds of bells, but apparently, you are still you even when dead.

EDIT: Regarding the effectiveness, yeah, I'd probably wouldn't use that contingency, I generally go for extra castings with triggers like "When I say Cowabunga" or "When I make this gesture", etc.

Personally, I like Fire Shield. Lasts 10 minutes, costs no Concentration, gives you resistance to either cold or fire damage, and deals damage to melee attackers. Lasts long enough to use it for more than one fight. Lots of good things.

[Rukelnikov]

Personally, I like Fire Shield. Lasts 10 minutes, costs no Concentration, gives you resistance to either cold or fire damage, and deals damage to melee attackers. Lasts long enough to use it for more than one fight. Lots of good things.

Yeah, its a good one, on the same vein, Blink and Mirror Image are also cool.

And never did it or saw it in play, but a Half-orc Bard could do something like "Cast Death Ward when Death Ward prevents me from falling", and stop 3 instances of damage from making him fall.