Metamagic Sorcerer Build

[PartyHatWurmple]

Hello friends. I'm a very long time lurker here, but this is my first time posting. I'm having some trouble with research and finding guides due to so many of the forums I once perused and enjoyed being shut down, moved, archived, etc.

I'm working on a metamagic specialist sorcerer build and I'm hoping for some advice, guidance, and maybe a class/feat build suggestion or two.

Background: The campaign is a fairly low magic campaign, at least to start, so anything too reliant on specific magic items will likely not work, but it's not completely out of the question. We are starting at level 1 and this will be a fairly long running campaign. I'm unsure of where our levels will be when the campaign wraps up, but I'm preparing for level 20. Since it's slow leveling, though, I need to make sure my character is relevant early on as well as later on.

My character will likely be the only arcane spellcaster, and due to the circumstances surrounding the beginning of the campaign story that makes wizards an impossibility, he is a Sorcerer.

That in combination with the difficulty of having a familiar in this particular campaign (I won't get into details, this post is already going to be long enough, but it's story-related) have led me down the path of taking the Metamagic Specialist rules variant from PHB2.

I'd like to build the character around Metamagic optimization. He's going to be a pretty simple character. Nuker + some support.

What I'm hoping you guys can really help me with is the class level structure or maybe a prestige class recommendation, as well as some feat recommendations.

My plan was to level Sorcerer 6/Incantrix 10, but beyond that I'm unsure. The DM is allowing 2 flaws as well, so I will have 3 extra feats from that and from being Human (a requirement due to the story).

Any recommendations of build guides/handbooks that might help me find what I'm looking for, or any recommendations in reply here would be much appreciated. Thanks everyone.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

WARNING: at low levels, playing a magical nuker kind of sucks. Not only do you have few spells per day, but you may feel useless even when you use them!
Ask your GM is you can retrain feats. If so, then taking Precocious Apprentice and Fiery Burst is fun at level 1. It grants you an attack than deals 2d6 fire damage in a 5ft burst (Reflex Half) at-will. Far more fun than simply using a light crossbow and having all your attacks miss!

Once you start getting enough spells to last you a day of adventuring, try retraining those feats into something like Iron Will + Maximise Spell. Feat Retraining rules are in the Player's Handbook II, and it costs time and gold. Still worth it, because it allows you to make fun choices at level 1 without feeling like you've wasted feats at higher level!




The ultimate metamagic Sorcerer is of course The Mailman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?447435-quot-The-Mailman-A-Direct-Damage-Sorcerer-quot-(from-Wizards-forums)), but that may be too powerful for some tables.
Still, it's always nice to look at that kind of massively powerful builds and use just a few of its ideas.

For example, I would play the Mailman without Kobold cheese, without Quick Recovery, without any other PrCs after Incantatrix (already a very strong PrC, thank you!), and simply focus on Metamagic feats and the amazing Arcane Spellsurge and Arcane Fusion spells. A strong build, but not a completely game-breaking one.

[PartyHatWurmple]

Thank you so much. That's exactly what I'm going for: Optimized, but not game-breaking. I'll take a look at The Mailman and those feats, too.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Starting at 1st level, take Versatile Spellcaster and learn Power Word: Pain if you want to deal damage, both are in Races of the Dragon.

Versatile Spellcaster allows you to spend two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know of one level higher. You can also use this to cast metamagic versions of spells if the level of the spell slot it would take is higher than what you can normally cast. This allows you to use two 0-level spell slots to cast a 1st level spell.

Power Word: Pain deals 1d6 damage per round, and it lasts longer depending on how low their hp already is when you cast it. It's mind-affecting so it won't work on some opponents. Learn Color Spray as well, it can win an encounter all on its own.

Get a crossbow and stay out of melee.

[MisterKaws]

Just a reminder: if you're going to be the only caster, you HAVE to get all the basic utility spells. If you don't, you'll eventually learn why you should've got them when your party gets killed by pidgeons dropping stones on you from out of your range, or by medusas petrifying everyone, or by mindflayers... you get my idea.

Also, get Wings of Cover. If you have a high Spellcraft bonus you save your bum once per round.

[Vizzerdrix]

Heighten does wonders for keeping low level debuffs relevent, and that will save you higher level spells known for doing your preferred thing.

Strongheart halflings make fantastic sorcs. Size bonus to def, dex bonus, and an extra feat are all super handy.

Your best defence will be going first. To that end improved initiative and nerverskitter should be priorities.

Ill also second taking powerword: pain and versatile spellcaster. Both are excellent choices.

You can eek a few extra spells onto your build by taking ancestral relic at 3rd and making a runestaff, or a drake helm.

Do not ignore alchemicals! Besides shapesand( which I do not recommend for once! Unless you have very good rolls or high point buy and a good wis), acid flasks are cheap to make and eggshell grenades are super handy! You can even make healing salve for those no magic areas.

If you do go strongheart halfling, and a good dex, and wish to use alchemicals in combat, a gnome calculus makes a great weapon. Just be aware that you will be taking huge penalties to hit, but that with masterwork and only needing to hit touch ac, it isn't as bad as it seems.

[Anthrowhale]

If I understand correctly, you have 4 feats at level 1 (2 flaws + human + L1 feat).

For 2 of the feats consider Iron Will + Reserves of Strength. Reserves of Strength allows you to increase caster level by 3, which can be huge at level 1 for damage causing spells and remains good throughout your career. Iron Will also gets entry into Incantatrix out of the way.

Versatile Spellcaster is very good as stated.

Fiery burst looks pretty good as well, perhaps via Versatile Spellcaster + Height Spell + Fiery Burst.

[Biggus]

If you're the only arcane caster, it might be worth looking at Sand Shaper for your last four levels. You more than double your spells known as a Sorcerer which dramatically increases your versatility. You lose a caster level, but if you're not too bothered about super-optimising that may be worth it (and as you have plenty of feats, you can always take Practised Spellcaster if you want to maximise CL).

[magic9mushroom]

Also, get Wings of Cover.

Wings of Cover is not all that useful unless you're dragonblood (and can therefore extend it to allies). It explicitly allows the attacker to re-pick or re-target their action. Your fellow players will then get annoyed because you're deflecting attacks onto them.

[MisterKaws]

Wings of Cover is not all that useful unless you're dragonblood (and can therefore extend it to allies). It explicitly allows the attacker to re-pick or re-target their action. Your fellow players will then get annoyed because you're deflecting attacks onto them.

Depends on your party. If all of them are Chaotic(and if the players themselves are), it's all fine. Probably gonna get a few chuckles, even.

[Oberron]

Wings of Cover is not all that useful unless you're dragonblood (and can therefore extend it to allies). It explicitly allows the attacker to re-pick or re-target their action. Your fellow players will then get annoyed because you're deflecting attacks onto them.

It still waste the attack, it denies action effectively and can give him +4 to reflex. It's a really good spell.

[magic9mushroom]

It still waste the attack, it denies action effectively and can give him +4 to reflex. It's a really good spell.

That's the thing, though. It doesn't waste the attack.


Your foe’s first attack in this round
cannot be made and is wasted against
you, though he could decide to take
any other action, including choosing
to attack one of your allies instead

The opponent can attack one of your allies instead of attacking you. It is not "Nope!", it's "Pick another target". Now, I mean, if you don't have any allies nearby (unlikely), or if you're dragonblood and can extend the effect to all your allies, it's a great spell. But it's not what people often claim it to be.

[INoKnowNames]

If I remember correctly, Sorcs tend to have d4 hitdice and be overall squishy as hell, right? It's probably better for almost literally anyone else in the group -but- them to be target-ted for an attack, then.

Responding to the thread itself, I'd advize making sure everyone else is okay with you being a glass cannon. If you do too much more damage, it'll certainly trod on the toes of any archer in the group, and if you Ctrl-Alt-Delete every DM Encounter, there's a good chance monsters and enemies might suddenly become much more durable for you, and if your party doesn't deal as much as you, that might get messy...

But yes. A few low-midish level spells, and then as many ways as possible to make them *HURT*. Quite a hoot indeed. :smallcool:

[Oberron]

That's the thing, though. It doesn't waste the attack.



The opponent can attack one of your allies instead of attacking you. It is not "Nope!", it's "Pick another target". Now, I mean, if you don't have any allies nearby (unlikely), or if you're dragonblood and can extend the effect to all your allies, it's a great spell. But it's not what people often claim it to be.

But it literally does say the attack is wasted.
Your foe's first attack in this round cannot be made and is wasted against you, though he could decide to take any other action, including choosing to attack one of your allies instead, or take a full attack action that grants him additional melee attacks against you in this round (if your foe is of high enough level to have additional attacks.

The enemy can still take other actions but it's pretty clear the enemy's first attack can't be made and is wasted.

[Anthrowhale]

Responding to the thread itself, I'd advize making sure everyone else is okay with you being a glass cannon. If you do too much more damage, it'll certainly trod on the toes of any archer in the group, and if you Ctrl-Alt-Delete every DM Encounter, there's a good chance monsters and enemies might suddenly become much more durable for you, and if your party doesn't deal as much as you, that might get messy...

My expectation here is that blasting is typically not overwhelming until Arcane Thesis[Arcane Fusion] + Twin Spell comes online.

[Oberron]

My expectation here is that blasting is typically not overwhelming until Arcane Thesis[Arcane Fusion] + Twin Spell comes online.
And even then the sorcerer can just not do the arcane fusion combo. But even if you do leave it at that
That is still a 7th lvl spell slot used to cast two 1stlvl and two 4th level spells of the same choice and at the same targets. At least it isn't sanctum spell arcane fusion.

Another good prc is the war mage (not the base class) from dragon lance, get +cha to your ac and allies as well as more metamagic, but the best bonus is the +damage per damage die on each spell you cast.

[Gullintanni]

But it literally does say the attack is wasted.
Your foe's first attack in this round cannot be made and is wasted against you, though he could decide to take any other action, including choosing to attack one of your allies instead, or take a full attack action that grants him additional melee attacks against you in this round (if your foe is of high enough level to have additional attacks.

The enemy can still take other actions but it's pretty clear the enemy's first attack can't be made and is wasted.

If the opponent gets multiple attacks per round, and has multiple party members within its reach, then all Wings of Cover does is consume the opponents' first attack, and redirect the rest onto whoever else is in reach.

However; it shuts down anything that had to move to get in reach before it attacked, or any big creature that has only one big attack as its whole attack routine. Not a bad spell. Situational.

[Oberron]

If the opponent gets multiple attacks per round, and has multiple party members within its reach, then all Wings of Cover does is consume the opponents' first attack, and redirect the rest onto whoever else is in reach.

However; it shuts down anything that had to move to get in reach before it attacked, or any big creature that has only one big attack as its whole attack routine. Not a bad spell. Situational.

It's situational, but it covers a lot of situations that the sorcerer doesn't want to be in. Saying "no" to what is likely the easiest to make attack even if the enemy has multiple attacks is still really good, and forcing them to split their focus to a most likely less squishy target is a win for the party.

[Anthrowhale]

And even then the sorcerer can just not do the arcane fusion combo. But even if you do leave it at that
That is still a 7th lvl spell slot used to cast two 1stlvl and two 4th level spells of the same choice and at the same targets. At least it isn't sanctum spell arcane fusion.

It comes online earlier than that. Something like Arcane Thesis[Arcane Fusion], Twin Spell, Easy Metamagic[Twin Spell], Practical Metamagic[Twin] allows you to cast out of a 5th level slot
(0=+4-1(Easy)-1(AT with Twin)-1(AT with Easy)-1(Practical)) using something like Easy Twin AF[Easy Twin Scorching Ray, Orb of Fire]. Scorching Ray does 3*4d6 on hit so Twin Scorching Ray does 24d6. Orb of Fire does 5d8. Arcane Fusion[Twin Scorching Ray, Orb of Fire] does 24d6+5d8 so twinning that does 48d6+10d8 ~=213 damage if all the touch attacks hit.

[Oberron]

It comes online earlier than that. Something like Arcane Thesis[Arcane Fusion], Twin Spell, Easy Metamagic[Twin Spell], Practical Metamagic[Twin] allows you to cast out of a 5th level slot
(0=+4-1(Easy)-1(AT with Twin)-1(AT with Easy)-1(Practical)) using something like Easy Twin AF[Easy Twin Scorching Ray, Orb of Fire]. Scorching Ray does 3*4d6 on hit so Twin Scorching Ray does 24d6. Orb of Fire does 5d8. Arcane Fusion[Twin Scorching Ray, Orb of Fire] does 24d6+5d8 so twinning that does 48d6+10d8 ~=213 damage if all the touch attacks hit.

If you do all that yeah it comes online sooner, but I was talking about just leaving it at arcane thesis, it makes it a 7th lvl spell but still do respectable damage while not overwhelming. As well as let you use your other feats for different meta magics or w/e for other spells for self control balancing

[magic9mushroom]

But it literally does say the attack is wasted.
Your foe's first attack in this round cannot be made and is wasted against you, though he could decide to take any other action, including choosing to attack one of your allies instead, or take a full attack action that grants him additional melee attacks against you in this round (if your foe is of high enough level to have additional attacks.

The enemy can still take other actions but it's pretty clear the enemy's first attack can't be made and is wasted.

If the opponent gets multiple attacks per round, and has multiple party members within its reach, then all Wings of Cover does is consume the opponents' first attack, and redirect the rest onto whoever else is in reach.

However; it shuts down anything that had to move to get in reach before it attacked, or any big creature that has only one big attack as its whole attack routine. Not a bad spell. Situational.

It's situational, but it covers a lot of situations that the sorcerer doesn't want to be in. Saying "no" to what is likely the easiest to make attack even if the enemy has multiple attacks is still really good, and forcing them to split their focus to a most likely less squishy target is a win for the party.


The wings of force last
just long enough to disrupt your foe’s
line of effect to you, providing you
total cover against a single attack with
a weapon, spell, or psionic power.
Your foe’s first attack in this round
cannot be made and is wasted against
you, though he could decide to take
any other action, including choosing
to attack one of your allies instead, or
take a full attack action that grants
him additional melee attacks against
you in this round (if your foe is of
high enough level to have additional
attacks). The wings unfurl and then
dissipate an instant later.

Interpretation 1: Your foe’s first attack in this round (cannot be made) and (is wasted against you)

Interpretation 2: Your foe's first attack in this round (cannot be made and is wasted) against you

You are both claiming Interpretation 1. I am claiming Interpretation 2. However, Interpretation 1 is not consistent with the context of the spell.


providing you total cover against a single attack with a weapon, spell, or psionic power.

though he could decide to take any other action, including choosing to attack one of your allies instead

Wings of Cover applies against one attack. This means that "instead" cannot apply to later attacks as Gullintanni claims, because Wings of Cover is no longer in effect for those attacks and as such they could in fact target you. Therefore, "instead" applies to the single attack Wings of Cover is used against. Therefore, the attack Wings of Cover is meant to block can be redirected. Therefore "cannot be made" is "cannot be made against you".

The sequence is:

1: Opponent declares their first attack of the round targetting you.
2: Wings of Cover!
3: Opponent can now choose whether to redo their action, or attack you anyway.
4: If they attacked you anyway, attack fails due to total cover (unless they're a Force Dragon, in which case you don't have total cover).

[Oberron]

Interpretation 1: Your foe’s first attack in this round (cannot be made) and (is wasted against you)

Interpretation 2: Your foe's first attack in this round (cannot be made and is wasted) against you

You are both claiming Interpretation 1. I am claiming Interpretation 2. However, Interpretation 1 is not consistent with the context of the spell.




Wings of Cover applies against one attack. This means that "instead" cannot apply to later attacks as Gullintanni claims, because Wings of Cover is no longer in effect for those attacks and as such they could in fact target you. Therefore, "instead" applies to the single attack Wings of Cover is used against. Therefore, the attack Wings of Cover is meant to block can be redirected. Therefore "cannot be made" is "cannot be made against you".

The sequence is:

1: Opponent declares their first attack of the round targetting you.
2: Wings of Cover!
3: Opponent can now choose whether to redo their action, or attack you anyway.
4: If they attacked you anyway, attack fails due to total cover (unless they're a Force Dragon, in which case you don't have total cover).

Make a new thread about it, it's getting off track

Fiery spell, the mm feat, is pretty good for +1 that gives +1 damage per die if the spell is fire type, mix with energy admixture and it effectively doubles.

[Blackhawk748]

Just a reminder: if you're going to be the only caster, you HAVE to get all the basic utility spells. If you don't, you'll eventually learn why you should've got them when your party gets killed by pidgeons dropping stones on you from out of your range, or by medusas petrifying everyone, or by mindflayers... you get my idea.

Also, get Wings of Cover. If you have a high Spellcraft bonus you save your bum once per round.

No they don't, and they're a Sorcerer, they can't do that even if they wanted to. As for actual advice, you may to be a Silverbrow Human which lets you get all those nice Dragonblooded bonuses to various spells. As has been mentioned, Sandshaper is great as it'll give you a ton more spells known to play with as well as some good blasting.

[Mato]

Hello Partyhat.

I'd probably drop your levels in incantatrix down to four, you can simply buy access to metamagic spell trigger if you felt like you needed to throw money at encounters like an artificer. This opens up a lot of room for other PrCs. The first one I'm going to suggest is the warmage out of dragonlance's age of mortals. I know it's a little confusing since there is a "warmage" base class, but the prestigious class is worth taking levels in. The requirements are a little feat extensive, combat casting, eschew material, and weapon focus. But over the course of five levels it gives you two metamagic feats (which makes up trading out incantatrix). It also reduces armor failure by 10% and gives you and every ally within 30ft a bonus to armor class equal to your charisma modifier, doubling as a party buff as well as an important AC bonus if you plan to use touch spells. And finally it gives you a class feature known as "battle magic". This was errataed to only work once per point of your constitution modifier per day, but it adds +3 damage per die rolled.

The next PrC I'm going to suggest is just about as obscure. Buried deep in the Fiendish Codex II is a well known warlock PrC known as the hellfire warlock, but listed in it's entry is an officially suggested arcane spellcaster adaption. A sorcerer / hellfire warlock can take one point of constitution damage to add his hellfire warlock level in extra d6s to a spell's damage.

So what we're going to aim for is a sorcerer 6 / incantatrix 4 / hellfire warlock 3 / warmage 5 / undefined 2. And the reason for this is because you're going to eventually use incantatrix to persist friendly fireEE. Then your going to use three spells enhanced by persist spell, searing spell, battle magic, hellfire blast, and you'll also want two rings of mystic fire and one ring of mystic lightningMiC. And those are wreath of flamesDM, fire shieldCore, and lightning ringSpC. The resulting combination is effectively immune to ranged attacks but creatures striking it with melee take 8d6+39 fire damage for each successful hit, at the start of your turn all adjacent enemies take 8d6+24 fire damage and 17d6+51 lightning damage (reflex halves). As a free action each round you can fire two lightning bolts that deal 12d6+36 each, and any touch spell you decided to later employ also deals an additional 8d6+24 fire damage.

But that goal is a long way off, you have to make it to level 18 first. At level one I suggest power word painDM, caltropsSpC, prestidigitation, and fill your remaining spells known with arcane utility. Even through you want to be a blaster, it's important to keep a tight reign on how many destructive spells you know. When you can access 2nd level spells kelgore's gravemistPHB2 is an excellent addition to combo with web, fatigued them and dealing 1d6/per round, but if you really need something direct combustSpC deals 1d8 per caster level to a single creature with no saving throw for that part of it's damage. It comes at a cost of being a touch spell through.

When you can access the 3rd level of spells you're also going to start progression incantatrix soon. It has a lot of spells that will compete for your attention. It's nothing like accessing 4th where you know you will absolutely learn dalmar's lightning lanceDL. 4th also brings solid fogCore & black tentaclesCore which can be used to trap people inside spells that deal damage over several rounds. 5th brings arcane fusionCM which lets you deal damage and buff or debuff or create crowd control all within the same action. It also gives you boreal windFB which can push people trying to escape your area spells back into them.

As far as 6th & 7th go I'd just stick to fulfilling arcane utility. If you must use higher level blasting spells, which are rarely cost efficient (that 4th level lightning lance deals up to 39d6 per casting), then you should look into setting up greater arcane fusion(lingering flamesCM & solid fog). This deals 15d6 fire damage per round to everyone trapped within for three rounds (45d6 total) while limiting enemy interaction. But as you get higher in level you don't have to rely off casting spells. As I introduced you to at the start of my post, by level 18 you can deal hundreds of damage each round without expending any additional spell slots and without knowing very many direct damage spells.