Fighter/Swashbuckler Rogue idea

[BeefGood]

I'm working on a multiclassed idea and I'd appreciate hearing others' thoughts.

Assume a Forgotten Realms setting with feats allowed.

Here's what I want:
Priority 1a: Half-orc. Let’s call him Hork.
Priority 1b: While engaged in melee with an enemy, Hork can throw a weapon at a different enemy. To assist a comrade in trouble, for example.
Priority 2: Good strength. I can’t envision a weak halforc.

Backstory: Captured by hobgoblins/goblins as a child. Recently escaped. Will take unreasonable risks to kill goblinoids.
Outlander background.

Starting Abilities: Standard Array distributed as shown; racial bonuses also shown.
Str 13+2=15
Dex 15
Con 14 +1=15
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 12

First Five Levels
1. Fighter 1 for Two-Weapon Fighting Style and armor proficiencies.
2. Rogue 1. At this point Horks skill profs could be Athletics Acrobatics Intimidation Perception Survival Stealth Thieves Tools
3. Rogue 2
4. Rogue 3/Swashbuckler for Fancy Footwork.
These four levels achieve Priority 1b fairly well. Hork can take a swing at a foe with his short sword/scimitar and then step back to throw his off-hand dagger, avoiding both an Opportunity Attack and auto-disadvantage on the dagger throw.
5. Rogue 4 Medium Armor Master feat. Now Hork can Stealth in half plate and get up to +3 AC from Dex (if boost Dex to 16).

I'm not sure where to go from here:

I’d like to achieve Fighter 5 for Extra Attack. Maybe Fighter 6 for ASI/feat. But on the other hand, if I delay or don’t take additional Rogue levels then the Sneak Attack damage will gradually lose relevance as the foes become more powerful. Also, Uncanny Dodge and Evasion are sweet.
Hork’s melee weapon selection is exceedingly limited. They must be Light for TWF and Finesse for SA. That’s just dagger, shortsword and scimitar. (Hork will probably have a shortbow.) Damage dice are small so ways to increase damage output are needed.


Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[Misterwhisper]

Nothing wrong with a star based rogue. You have fighter so proficiencies are all handled.

Maybe go str primary and dex at 14 with medium armor.

You could also use a shield as needed.

What you need is a finesse weapon you can throw.
Like the dagger.
With mostly rogue levels your sneak attack are the main offense you can live with the dagger d4.

The question is, how many levels of fighter are you going to go?
If all you want is the proficiencies and fighting style I would stop at 1.
If you are going for enough to get a second attack that opens a lot more doors.

Also I would go with:

Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 13
Cha 11

Wear medium armor like a breastplate
Carry a shield and a rapier but also daggers
Go:
Fighter 1 - dueling
Ranger 2 - for spells and TWF
Rest all rogue swashbuckler
Max str first then even out wis and cha.

Combat use daggers.
The key though is only keeping one at a time.

Fight with dagger 1 in your hand.
Throw it - you can use str, and it gets dueling.
Now draw your second dagger, you now qualify for TWF.
Move up and stab someone, you are still only using one weapon at the time so it gets your dueling bonus and your stat due to being a different light weapon.
When you hit or not, move back out of melee.

Repeat next round.

Also it nets you an extra skill, and some nice utility spells like hunters mark and such.

[CTurbo]

I wouldn't start with three stats of 15. Were you planning on moving forward with Str or Dex? I can see starting with a 14 Str for flavor, but I would focus on Dex all the way and get Dex bumped to 16 at level 4 no matter what. I'd probably bump Dex again with the next ASI too. If you want to focus on Str instead of Dex, you could leave Dex at 12 or 14, wear heavy armor, and eventually take the Dual Wielding feat for more/better weapon options.

I'd go Battle Master Fighter for Riposte so you can use sneak attack with your reaction too. Also grab Sentinel later to maximize that even more.

[Rukelnikov]

If you don't plan to wear plate (medium armor master), you should take first level as a Rogue, you lose 2hp but gain a skill.

Also, if you wanna go Str, there's no prob there, but you should start 16, 14, 14 after racials.

And as CTurbo said, riposte would work wonders for SA

[Klorox]

I'm working on a multiclassed idea and I'd appreciate hearing others' thoughts.

Assume a Forgotten Realms setting with feats allowed.

Here's what I want:
Priority 1a: Half-orc. Let’s call him Hork.
Priority 1b: While engaged in melee with an enemy, Hork can throw a weapon at a different enemy. To assist a comrade in trouble, for example.
Priority 2: Good strength. I can’t envision a weak halforc.

Backstory: Captured by hobgoblins/goblins as a child. Recently escaped. Will take unreasonable risks to kill goblinoids.
Outlander background.

Starting Abilities: Standard Array distributed as shown; racial bonuses also shown.
Str 13+2=15
Dex 15
Con 14 +1=15
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 12

First Five Levels
1. Fighter 1 for Two-Weapon Fighting Style and armor proficiencies.
2. Rogue 1. At this point Horks skill profs could be Athletics Acrobatics Intimidation Perception Survival Stealth Thieves Tools
3. Rogue 2
4. Rogue 3/Swashbuckler for Fancy Footwork.
These four levels achieve Priority 1b fairly well. Hork can take a swing at a foe with his short sword/scimitar and then step back to throw his off-hand dagger, avoiding both an Opportunity Attack and auto-disadvantage on the dagger throw.
5. Rogue 4 Medium Armor Master feat. Now Hork can Stealth in half plate and get up to +3 AC from Dex (if boost Dex to 16).

I'm not sure where to go from here:

I’d like to achieve Fighter 5 for Extra Attack. Maybe Fighter 6 for ASI/feat. But on the other hand, if I delay or don’t take additional Rogue levels then the Sneak Attack damage will gradually lose relevance as the foes become more powerful. Also, Uncanny Dodge and Evasion are sweet.
Hork’s melee weapon selection is exceedingly limited. They must be Light for TWF and Finesse for SA. That’s just dagger, shortsword and scimitar. (Hork will probably have a shortbow.) Damage dice are small so ways to increase damage output are needed.


Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Are you set in your standard array and level order? I’d switch a few things.

Here’s how I’d do the standard array:
STR 17 (15+2)
DEX 14 (enough for medium armor)
CON 14 (13+1)
INT/WIS/CHA: these bottom 3 stats should be arranged as you like, but WIS saves are by far the most important

Use a rapier (eligible for sneak attack), but use STR.
Use a shield
Wear medium armor
Consider expertise in athletics and shield master feat. If you knock an enemy prone, your attack is made at advantage. If your attack is made at advantage, you get sneak attack dice.

Level 1: rogue. You get an extra skill this way, and DEX saves are going to be more common than CON saves since you’re not a spellcaster. Plus, you will never need heavy armor, so don’t sweat losing that proficiency.

Level 2: fighter. Dueling or defense style.

Then advance however you’d like.

[CTurbo]

I wouldn't start with three stats of 15. Were you planning on moving forward with Str or Dex? I can see starting with a 14 Str for flavor, but I would focus on Dex all the way and get Dex bumped to 16 at level 4 no matter what. I'd probably bump Dex again with the next ASI too. If you want to focus on Str instead of Dex, you could leave Dex at 12 or 14, wear heavy armor, and eventually take the Dual Wielding feat for more/better weapon options.

I'd go Battle Master Fighter for Riposte so you can use sneak attack with your reaction too. Also grab Sentinel later to maximize that even more.

Two other things I meant to add and forgot...

I don't like Medium Armor Mastery and don't recommend it.

You don't need both Athletics and Acrobatics

[BeefGood]

Thanks everyone for the responses.



Carry a shield and a rapier but also daggers
Go:
Fighter 1 - dueling
Ranger 2 - for spells and TWF
Rest all rogue swashbuckler
Max str first then even out wis and cha.

Combat use daggers.
The key though is only keeping one at a time.

Fight with dagger 1 in your hand.
Throw it - you can use str, and it gets dueling.
Now draw your second dagger, you now qualify for TWF.
Move up and stab someone, you are still only using one weapon at the time so it gets your dueling bonus and your stat due to being a different light weapon.
When you hit or not, move back out of melee.

Repeat next round.

Also it nets you an extra skill, and some nice utility spells like hunters mark and such.

I had not thought about Ranger. It would be neat to Hunter's mark my hobgoblin foe and track him back to their camp.
I don't think the shield + sequential daggers scenario would qualify for the second attack of the two-weapon fighting. The two weapons must be held in different hands.


I wouldn't start with three stats of 15. Were you planning on moving forward with Str or Dex? I can see starting with a 14 Str for flavor, but I would focus on Dex all the way and get Dex bumped to 16 at level 4 no matter what. I'd probably bump Dex again with the next ASI too. If you want to focus on Str instead of Dex, you could leave Dex at 12 or 14, wear heavy armor, and eventually take the Dual Wielding feat for more/better weapon options.

I'd go Battle Master Fighter for Riposte so you can use sneak attack with your reaction too. Also grab Sentinel later to maximize that even more.

Yes, if I could decide on Str v. Dex, then a lot of these choices would sort themselves out.
Battlemaster/Riposte is a great idea, that gives the potential of two Sneak Attacks in one round. I have no experience with Battlemaster. What other maneuvers are commonly chosen?


If you don't plan to wear plate (medium armor master), you should take first level as a Rogue, you lose 2hp but gain a skill.


AFB at the moment--do you get a fighting style (TWFS) when you multiclass into fighter rather than starting with it?


Use a rapier (eligible for sneak attack), but use STR.
Use a shield

As mentioned above, I don't think shield would permit two-weapon fighting, and without that it's more difficult to be in melee with one foe and hurl a dagger at some other foe.



I don't like Medium Armor Mastery and don't recommend it.
You don't need both Athletics and Acrobatics
Medium Armor Master seems okay to me. Do you think that in cases where one might be tempted to go Medium Armor Master, it's better to wear light armor and pump Dex?
Athletics is needed for climbing and Acrobatics is needed for...there's a Tumble option somewhere--maybe in DMG? Maybe that uses Acrobatics.

[Misterwhisper]

Thanks everyone for the responses.



I had not thought about Ranger. It would be neat to Hunter's mark my hobgoblin foe and track him back to their camp.
I don't think the shield + sequential daggers scenario would qualify for the second attack of the two-weapon fighting. The two weapons must be held in different hands.



Yes, if I could decide on Str v. Dex, then a lot of these choices would sort themselves out.
Battlemaster/Riposte is a great idea, that gives the potential of two Sneak Attacks in one round. I have no experience with Battlemaster. What other maneuvers are commonly chosen?



AFB at the moment--do you get a fighting style (TWFS) when you multiclass into fighter rather than starting with it?

As mentioned above, I don't think shield would permit two-weapon fighting, and without that it's more difficult to be in melee with one foe and hurl a dagger at some other foe.


Medium Armor Master seems okay to me. Do you think that in cases where one might be tempted to go Medium Armor Master, it's better to wear light armor and pump Dex?
Athletics is needed for climbing and Acrobatics is needed for...there's a Tumble option somewhere--maybe in DMG? Maybe that uses Acrobatics.

I meant carry a shield anyway just in case but the dual dagger thing is daggers only.
It just so happens that you only have one at a time in a hand.

[Innocent_bystan]

I'd replace Medium Armour Mastery with Shield Master and use a shield. The AC gain is the same, you get a bonus action attack with the shield. You can still throw a dagger with your main hand.

And you get Evasion-lite as a freebie. And since you aren't using TWF, you can still use a rapier if you want to.