CR Calculation for creature creation

[malachi]

What are some good guidelines for setting the effective damage of creatures who have weird attack styles (such as only being able to make attacks against creatures that aren't adjacent to any other creature) where PC strategy, more than anything else, would determine how often the homebrew creature can attack / the amount of damage it can deal?

Some ideas I've had so far:
- can only attack characters who aren't adjacent to other characters
- uses AOEs that deal damage to PCs based on the number of PCs inside the AOE
- gains charges when targeted by AOEs / save effects, can make attacks with charges
- swaps places with another character (save to avoid), but deals no damage

[Unoriginal]

My suggestions:



- can only attack characters who aren't adjacent to other characters

Calculate the offensive CR normally. A monster would select a target they can hurt, for damage calculation.



- uses AOEs that deal damage to PCs based on the number of PCs inside the AOE

Assume the average number of PCs compared to the maximum that could be within the AoE.



- gains charges when targeted by AOEs / save effects, can make attacks with charges

How many attacks can the monster do, and how many effects do they need to charge it? Are those charged attacks on top of the ones they can already do?



- swaps places with another character (save to avoid), but deals no damage

That does not affect CR.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'd just base everything off of averages.

For example, a 10x10 AoE that deals more damage the more targets are inside of it will probably hit 2 players, so base it off of a single attack that hits 2 players (or as two separate attacks, like Multiclass) when determining CR.

When using it to attack creatures who aren't adjacent to other creatures, consider how often that may come true. Maybe 30-50% of the time? Maybe more if the creature has some kind of special mobility effect (like Disengage/Dash).

For utility-based effects, try to find a spell that's comparable to the effect and use its spell level as a guideline.

All-in-all, though, it's all really quite vague with what you have listed. For example, a 1/day teleport that swaps places with a player would just be some kind of special effect that probably doesn't need to bump the CR at all, but treating it as a special movement that they can use regularly would definitely cause it to increase in difficulty.

[edit] Holy carp, not only did I get Ninja'd, but it was by Unoriginal, which could only mean...we actually AGREED. Hell of a Friday so far. Seriously, though, good analysis by Unoriginal.

[Unoriginal]

Also if the ability is "save against", then you can use the DMG's table for offensive CR based on imposed save DCs.



[edit] Holy carp, not only did I get Ninja'd, but it was by Unoriginal, which could only mean...we actually AGREED. Hell of a Friday so far.

I am confused by this reaction.

[Man_Over_Game]

I am confused by this reaction.

We've had a number of disagreements, mostly around the fact that I homebrew the crud out of anything, and I get the feeling that you prefer 5e with fewer mutations than more.