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JNAProductions
2019-04-12, 11:42 PM
Link to the original thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517416-Darkest-Dungeon). For those who can't be arsed to click the link, here's the text.


New Main Stat: Composure (Com)
Composure is made by adding your Wisdom score and half of your Intelligence and Charisma scores, then dividing by two. It's basically Constitution for Mental Health.

Rest Changes
Short rests are limited to two per long rest, but do not have to be taken together, and simply require five or more minutes of rest or light activity.

Long rests do not restore all HP-instead, they restore 1 Hit Point per level, and the usual half of your hit dice.

New Derived Stat: Mental Health (MH)
Mental Health is how stable and sane your character is. 0 or above, you are fine (though the lower you get, the more panicky and unstable your character should act). At -1 to -10, you have reduced resting. For each point in the negatives you are, you have a 10% reduction in rest benefits, rounded down. For spell slots, HP, and similar, you multiply the amount regained by the percentages, rounding down. For more limited things like Action Surge, you roll over the percentage to regain the feature.

Percentage Based Negative MH Things
HP
Spell Slots
Rages
Bardic Inspiration
Battle Master Dice
Ki
Lay On Hands
Divine Sense
Sorcery Points
Arcane Recovery

All other class features that are not at-will must roll over the percentage to be regained on a rest.

Examples
A 2nd level Barbarian is at -4 MH. He has a 40% reduction in resting bonuses, so regains 1 rage (.6*2=1.2, round down), no hit dice (.6*1=.6, round down), and 1 hit point (.6*2=1.2, round down) each long rest.
A 5th level Champion Fighter is also at -4 MH. She has a 40% reduction in resting bonuses, so regains 3 hit points (.6*5=3), 1 hit die (.6*2.5=1.5, round down), and has a 60% chance of regaining her Action Surge (41+ on a d100).
A 14th level Wizard is at -8 MH. They have an 80% reduction in resting bonuses, so regain 2 hit points (.2*14=2.8, round down), 1 hit die (.2*7=1.4, round down), 1 spell slot worth of Arcane Recovery (.2*7=1.4, round down), and no spells (.2*4=.8, round down, and every other spell level has less).

If your MH is past -10, you start losing HP and other resources in a similar manner. For each point lower than -10 you are, you lose 10% of the normal HP you would regain, and 10% of the percentage based features, rounded down. You have the same chance of losing non-percentage based features.

Examples
The same 2nd level Barbarian is at -14 MH. He loses 40% of what he would normally gain, so loses no rages (.4*2=.8, round down), no hit dice (.4*1=/4, round down), and no hit points (.4*2=.8, round down).
The same 5th level Champion Fighter is also at -14 MH now. She loses 40% of what she would normally gain, so loses 2 hit point (.4*5=2), 1 hit die (.4*2.5=1), and has a 40% chance of losing her Action Surge (40- on a d100).
The same 14th level Wizard is at -32 MH. They lose 220% of what they'd normally gain, so loses 30 HP (2.2*14=30.8, round down), all their hit dice (2.2*7=15.4, round down), all their Arcane Recovery (2.2*7=15.4, round down), and all their spells.

As you can see, it's important to keep your Mental Health high. That is not always possible, however. The most common cause of losing MH is simple darkness. For each minute spent in the dark in a dangerous place, you lose one MH if you fail a DC 5 Com save. The DC increases by 1 each minute. Many monsters are horrific enough in nature to force a similar save as well.

Classes, regardless of type, gain 1d10 MH per level.

MH can only be restored in apparently safe places-resting out in the wild or in a dungeon will NOT restore it.

No spell or other effect can restore MH-it can only return, at the rate of 1 MH per level per long rest, when resting in safety and peace.

Upon leveling, you gain 1d10 MH, but do NOT restore your MH to max (if your DM levels you up mid-dungeon).

Reincarnation And Soulbinding
Darkest Dungeon allows you to reincarnate when the party is wiped (and it will be wiped) or when a character dies. The new character starts at level 1, with only Soulbound equipment, and has point buy equal to 26+the dead character's level.

Point buy is modified as follows:



6
-2


7
-1


8
0


9
1


10
2


11
3


12
4


13
5


14
7


15
9


16
12


17
15


18
19



Soulbound equipment is gear that has been imbued with the ability to return to your descendants or successors. To Soulbind a piece of gear, you must expend 25 MH during a long rest, as the process takes a while and is mentally taxing. Magic items can take more. Generally, each level of rarity above Common increases the MH cost by 5. In addition, you cannot reduce your MH below 0 by doing this.

You start with your basic equipment for your class-all Soulbound. If, however, you reincarnate into a new class, your equipment does not change.

Race Changes
Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-Elves, and Half-Orcs no longer have Darkvision. They instead have Low Light Vision.

Tieflings retain their Darkvision-however, their spectral whisperings and visions they see when forced to use it cause them to suffer the same MH loss as if they were in darkness when using their Darkvision.

I never got feedback on this. I'd appreciate some.

Crisis21
2019-04-13, 12:11 AM
Okay, Here's my two cents just on a skim:

Get rid of Composure. If you want to have a mental stat that does something similar to Constitution, use Charisma.

In fact, just think about equating the mental stats to the physical ones for similar purposes regarding mental assaults and defenses. Intelligence=Mental Strength, Wisdom=Mental Dexterity, Charisma=Mental Constitution. Should simplify everything.

As for Mental Health points, I'd suggest allowing more cerebral classes (those with d6 and d8 physical hit dice) to get the biggest mental hit dice (d10) to roll per level, while the martial classes (d10 and d12 physical hit dice) get the smaller (d8). And then add the Charisma modifier per level of course.

Unavenger
2019-04-13, 08:19 AM
In fact, just think about equating the mental stats to the physical ones for similar purposes regarding mental assaults and defenses. Intelligence=Mental Strength, Wisdom=Mental Dexterity, Charisma=Mental Constitution. Should simplify everything.

Int=Dex, Wis=Con, Cha=Str makes more sense, by the by. Opposed charisma checks are used to exert mental control over things, stuff that damages your mind usually damages your wisdom and intelligence is used to escape mental prisons.

Composer99
2019-04-13, 09:00 AM
As it's a 5e brew, I can't say I'm fond of making saves every minute to avoid nitpicky amounts of mental health damage, nor having other abilities or stats reduced or being unavailable for use with percentage thresholds of negative MH, nor indeed with negative MH to begin with.

I wonder if maybe you tried at the time to emulate the mechanics of Darkest Dungeon a little too closely?

Probably best, I reckon, to rework how MH works in order to model the Darkest Dungeon concepts involved - to whit, spending prolonged time in the darkness taxes your character's mental health and deteriorating mental health has consequences for your character's other abilities - in a more 5e-friendly way.

If MH have a Mental Health Die (equivalent to Hit Dice), maybe you lose one every hour you spend in the darkness of the dungeon, and then either have thresholds at, say, half your maximum MH and at 0 MH where your other abilities start being affected, or maybe you start picking up levels of exhaustion or other conditions each time you hit 0 MH? Or when you are at 0 MH you make saving throws not unlike death saving throws, and gain a permanent madness effect if you fail three before succeeding at three? Or some combination of the above?

Grod_The_Giant
2019-04-13, 11:21 AM
This all looks... very fiddly. I completely agree that saves every minute are just not practical in a non-computerized game, and the percentage reducion in class features seems equally cumbersome. Instead, I'd suggest a penalty to Proficiency and/or an X% chance of not benefitting from a rest.

JNAProductions
2019-04-13, 11:26 AM
Okay, general feedback seems to be "TOO DAMN FIDDLY!"

Which, yeah, I see.

So, here's a few changes:

Composure
It's now just a 7th stat. You start with 31 PB normally, and get 30+Level you died at PB for future characters. In addition, you multiply the amount of extra points you get by Tier-so at levels one to four, you get one to four points. Five to ten, you get ten to twenty points. Etc. etc.

I really like your idea, Grod, of dropping proficiency. -1 Prof for every 10 points or portion thereof you're below 0 in Mental Health.

Will add more later, but right now, about to start a discord game with friends.

JNAProductions
2019-04-13, 09:01 PM
Composure
Composure represents the ability of a character to stay calm, cool, and collected when faced with scary situations. In addition to being used for saving throws, you add your Composure modifier to your Mental Health each level, in the same manner as Constitution is added to your physical HP.

Due to adding an extra stat, it is recommended you allot at least two extra points (if using point buy) or add an additional 10 to the stat array (if using stat arrays). I would recommend potential increasing those further, adding four points (for 31 point buy default) and a 12 to the stat array, for characters that are suitably heroic. But, given the context, it might be appropriate to simply let players make do with the normal number of points and nothing more than an extra 8 in the stat array, depending on the tone you're going for.

Mental Health
Mental Health represents your character's stability and sanity. In the same way that being physically hurt takes a toll on the body, having your psyche hurt injures your mind.

Most all characters have a d8 for their Mental Health die (maximized at first level, as per usual), and then add their Composure modifier to their Mental Health total.

Unlike HP, a character does not die when their Mental Health reaches 0. Instead, they gain an Indefinite Madness (most likely related to whatever caused them to hit 0 or what made them lose the most Mental Health) and then regain Mental Health equal to half their maximum. For each Madness gained in this fashion, though, the character's proficiency bonus is reduced by 1, and they cannot regain the uses of any feature that they gained that proficiency bonus.

Maddy is playing a Wizard. She has just reached 5th level, gaining two 3rd level slots. However, she's dangerously close to cracking, having only 3 Mental Health left out of 33.

After an encounter with a Bodak that she barely survives, she fails a Composure save and loses her last 3 Mental Health. She immediately gains an Indefinite Madness (perhaps "The sight and smell of death repels me, and drives me crazy!"), regains 16 Mental Health, and has her proficiency bonus drop to +2.

Because she gained her 3rd level slots at +3 proficiency, she can no longer regain those slots until she removes her madness, or if she advances to level 9 without gaining a second Madness.



Randal is playing a Barbarian. Having just reached 2nd level, he doesn't gain any abilities that require recharging. However, when his party seems to abandon him, he loses 5 Mental Health, and he only had 2 out of 13 to start. He gains an indefinite madness (perhaps "I can't trust anyone but myself," or "I refuse to ever be left alone,"), regains 6 Mental Health, and his proficiency bonus drops to +1.

Because his proficiency bonus is less than it was when he gained rage, he cannot regain any spent uses until he removes his madness or reaches level 5.

Mental Health, unlike ordinary HP, can only be restored in safe and relaxing places. It is regained in the same fashion as HP is during a rest, so long as your character can feel at ease. However, each madness your character possesses reduces the amount of Mental Health gained by resting by half. (So, with one madness, you regain half your max in a long rest and cut the result of any Mental Health Hit Die spent in half. With two, it's cut to a fourth, etc.) Note that, no matter how many madnesses you have, you always restore at least one Mental Health point per level per long rest.

As one can see, madness makes it very difficult to restore Mental Health properly. As such, it's generally recommended that long enough periods of time away from anything forcing a Composure save should allow for a Composure save against a madness possessed by a PC.

Composed
No Prerequisites

Your Mental Health hit die increases to a d12. This applies retroactively.

Optional: Rest Changes

Long Rests, instead of restoring all hit points and half your hit dice, restore half your hit dice and one hit point per level per tier.

A 5th level (Tier 2) character would regain 5*2=10 HP during a long rest.

A 13th level (Tier 3) character would regain 13*3=39 HP during a long rest.

Optional: Reincarnation and Souldbinding

When a character dies, they are reborn. They are not left defenseless, though-they come back with Soulbound equipment and a higher point buy, though still at first level.

A character's new point buy is equal to one less than the original point buy, plus their level times their tier at time of death.

Or, if a character at 5th level who was built with 31 point buy dies, they would return with 30+(5*2)=40 points to spend on their new character.

Optionally, you may allow characters to return at higher levels than first. If doing so, subtract their new level from their old level, and add the total to their point buy. Use their actual tier, though.

So, if that same 5th level character died, they could return at level 4 with 32 point buy (30+((5-4)*2)=32).

Note this does mean a character returning at the same level has one LESS point buy than before-this is intentional.

Finally, on Reincarnation, it's recommended to use the following table to allow these extra points to be spent.



6
-2


7
-1


8
0


9
1


10
2


11
3


12
4


13
5


14
7


15
9


16
12


17
15


18
19


19
23


20
28



When using this table, it's also recommended that players be capped at 15 if they die in Tier One, 17 in Tier Two, 19 in Tier Three, and 20 in Tier Four.

Also, leave the cap at 20. Racial bonuses let you hit 20 easier, but do NOT let you exceed it.

Soulbound Equipment is equipment that stays with the player even after death. A player begins with all their adventuring gear Soulbound, but to bind another piece of equipment requires an expenditure of money, hit dice, and Mental Health. Soulbinding can only be done during a rest that lets you regain Mental Health.

Typically, binding a piece of equipment requires 10 GP in reagents and supplies to bind the equipment. It also requires you to expend a single hit die per piece of equipment, as bloodletting is part of the process, and three Mental Health per item, increasing by three for each extra piece being Soulbound at once. Note this cannot reduce your Mental Health to 0 or lower.

Tom is playing a Fighter, and has just acquired a shield (which he did not take as part of his starting equipment) and a set of full plate. He wishes to bind both of them to himself over a long rest. He acquires the supplies needed for 20 GP, and over the long rest expends two hit dice and nine Mental Health. (Three for the first item, six for the second.) Assuming he is not interrupted, at the end of the rest, he'll be a bit tired, a bit mentally drained, but even if he dies, he'll keep his armor and shield.

Magic items are usually much more taxing to bind. Even a common magic item will usually count as two items, and rarer ones may count as three, five, or even more.